Another day, another tech giant starts a patent lawsuit. Still deep in a fight with Samsung in Germany and Australia over whether its Galaxy phone and tablet range infringes iPad patents – a lawsuit which has delayed the release of the tablet in Australia and saw the Galaxy Tab dramatically pulled from shelves at German Trade …
...if Apple spent more time innovating and creating new stuff rather than re-hashing the same idea over and over and over... (iPhone, 3G, 3GS, 4 and I suspect 5 having basically never changed the UI or basic design) then they wouldn't need to sue all their competitors for having the gumption to actually innovate and produce better products...
Someone should sue them for being anticompetitive and for treating their customers like moneybags! These patent wars are doing absolutely nothing for the consumer except retard the development of new stuff at better prices. Thanks Apple... for nothing.
Why bother innovating?
With margins of 60%+ on the iPhone they'd be fools not to milk it as hard and for as long as they possibly can. Their only risk is being horribly crushed by a falling tower of cash.
And at the end of the day they are a business (yes, iFans, a for-profit enterprise) so of course they view customers as 'moneybags'.
PT Barnum said: "There's one born every minute". He wasn't referring to fanbois, but it's oh-so very apt....
"...if $TECH spent more time innovating and creating new stuff rather than re-hashing the same idea over and over and over... ($PROD1, $PROD2, $PROD3, $PROD4 and I suspect $PROD5 having basically never changed the UI or basic design) then they wouldn't need to sue all their competitors for having the gumption to actually innovate and produce better products...
Someone should sue them for being anticompetitive and for treating their customers like moneybags! These patent wars are doing absolutely nothing for the consumer except retard the development of new stuff at better prices. Thanks $TECH... for nothing."
I especially like the"spent more time innovating" comment, considering we see it in every single comment thread that features Apple. If you are going to slag a third party off for not being innovative, at least have the decency to be innovative your self and not repeat what was said by thousands of others. Repeating a fallacy ad infinitum doesn't ever make it true. As for the "having basically never changed the UI or basic design" bollocks, every time the slightest change is made to a UI by anyone else, the caterwauling from the self-appointed technocrati is unbearable. Fuck me, Apple recently made minimal changes to the colours of icons and 'teh interwebs' went into meltdown. The ribbon interface is still derided 5 years after it's introduction and I still hear people complain about the changes Microsoft made to Windows. What have the Great and Mighty Google done to 'innovate' the Android UI since it's release? Fuck all.
Ok, I'm with you so far.
but where is the inovation in just-another-touchscreen-smartphone from just-another-asian-manufacturer? Get Qualcom or NVidia SoC, Radio/GPS and WiFi module, LCD Panel with Gorilla Glas Touchscreen and have Foxconn put it together. Install Android or WP7 e voila, instant Smartphone!
That's hardly innovative to me. Samsungs Bada is more innovative as was Palms WebOS.
Hey, even Apple could do it :)
I'm no so sure that it is a fallacy. Surely if it gets repeated by many different people as an observation, and if we're being honest here the UI is virtually identical to the first incarnation of the OS, then is it not possible that it's true.
Of course I could again avoid being innovative and just say "calling it a fallacy doesn't make it so"...
It's an opinion and one that as a consumer I believe I'm entitled to. Apple is faced with the problem of having designed a brilliant and usable UI that even the most technophobic luddite can pick up and run with in no time at all. As a result any change will be for changes sake and not an improvement. That's their own issue to work through, throwing their toys and holding back the competition is not the solution and, if I'm being honest here, they know they're in for a world of hurt and they've fallen to the 'sarcasm of the marketing world' and started attempting to stifle the market.
Chill on the rage fella...
why change the UI?
I see this argument a lot, that iOS hasn't updated their UI significantly and thus is failing to innovate, but that's frankly daft. As a user I don't want needless UI changes, which if you cast your mind back was what we used to get from Nokia & Moto back in the day of feature-phones. Mostly I want the UI to be clean, attractive and consistent - I don't want to have to modify my workflow just because some designer got a brainwave.
The developments in iOS have been significant but not primarily UI based, instead they've been about improving the API and adding functionality to allow for richer applications.
The really funny thing is that the same folks who complain that Apple hasn't updated their UI, then turn around and complain about Sense, Motoblur and T-Wiz UX - because what they really want is a nice consistent stock android implementation.
As for the legal aspect, do you think if Sense was super successful and Samsung copied it down to the custom icons that HTC would be cool with that? The only reason that there's no litigation between the android OEMs is that thus far nobody likes any of their skins enough for them to matter.
Oh come on. The iPhone UI has been cloned and copied by numerous companies, from the fake chinese phone sellers to Samsung. Similarities can happen by accident, but not 5 or so coincidences, look, icon choice (using a flower in the photo viewer icon) using dots to signify what page you are on (most people use numbers) when you could use triangles, squares or numbers.
The packaging design of the iPhone has been copied by Samsung.
Perhaps one day if you create something new and another company rips it off then you'll know what it feels like.
Re: why change the UI?
I may be wrong but I think that people's complaint about the lack of improvement in the iOS interface is that it's now a long way behind Android. Putting in some functionality for widgets would be a good move IMHO. The UI hasn't remained completely static though: the iOS5 notifications panel, sliding tabs and lock screen are new (and clearly inspired by other offerings).
On the other hand, I may be wrong about the notifications thing: Apple says they "created a brand new way to handle [notifications]", not that they copied Android. I foresee iGnorants in the future complaining that another of Apple's "creations" has been ripped off...
If Samsung had copied iOS down to the last icon then your last paragraph would not have been a waste of pixels.
"I may be wrong but I think that people's complaint about the lack of improvement in the iOS interface is that it's now a long way behind Android."
You mean like the notification bar that iOS is about to innovate in iOS 5, the one that Android retroactively stole, like, three years ago?
What I love is that Android is, according to fanbois, a 100% carbon-copy of iOS. And yet iPhone people can't figure out how to do a damn thing on my Android phone! Mostly because I use a custom ROM and launcher and lots of widgets. Try doing any of that on iOS...
If it ain't broke...
...don't fix it! Why change the UI?
I don't own an Apple product, but this notion that change "just for change's sake" is a GOOD thing is simply daft. In fact, one of the bigger complaints about Win7 and Office 2010 is that MS moved everything around AGAIN for no good reason.
Re: Why Bother innovating?
PT Barnum also said "You will never lose money underestimating the intelligence of the general public" which is even more apt. ;-)
"And yet iPhone people can't figure out how to do a damn thing on my Android phone!"
Are you saying that's a GOOD thing about Android??
as do I
Oxygene v2 on a HTC Desire. But to be true, the Samsung Galaxy UI does look very close to iPhone to me.
What would an Android Phone look like if the iPhone never happened? More like a Blackberry probably.
RE: Chill on the rage fella...
Seriously? Did you read your own post? Ranting much?
Is this the next new Apple product?
We'll find out if they come out with anything else to wow people over the next few years ... or don't.
I suspect that Apple are carrying out this policy of sueing Samsung as a way of delaying the introduction of the Tab. Nothing to do with patents or anything, just a way of stopping a competitor from introducing a new product. All anti-competitive but without it being obvious.
that being said
what goes around comes around. Im sure samsung have been scouring their patent portfolios too.
"I suspect that Apple are carrying out this policy of sueing Samsung as a way of delaying the introduction of the Tab"
..I can wait ;)
The, ACER should sue Apple for taking the face-on look to iPad...
See time index 10:36, of page 21 of the screen captures.
To anyone who has seen Android and iOS homescreens and the different dimensions, aspect ratio and shaped home button will know Crapple don't have a leg to stand on, they're running scared now the iPhone beaters are coming.
The GS2 is entirely superior to the iPhone 4 in every way, it make the iPhone feel like a decades old housebrick and one think they know this
Re: Running scared
I am in the process on changing my phone right now (had the Nokia 6120classic for 4 years), so I decided to hit youtube to see videos compering the so-called similar phones (iPhone 4 vs Galaxy s II). Imagine my surprise when the videos showed me that they are not similar at all! Plus the Galaxy II looked superior to the iPhone!
I don't know how those law suites work or how they are judged. But the videos that should both phones next to each other, have shown me very different phones with different UI.
for the record, I am getting the Galaxy s II.
Re Re: Running scared
Most of my friends have iPhones, I have a Galaxy S2. You could never confuse the two but my friends all agree the S2 is a generation or two beyond the iPhone 4.
Apple losing ground
Very much seems to be a case or Apple are losing the war, their share is dropping and they have no ideas on how to get it back so its becoming a war of attrition..... prevent the opposition from selling while trying to sell your own product and see who lasts longest.
this bit goes at the top
So Apple is spending its huge cash reserves by suing competitors/manufacturers rather than creating products that could complete with them?
Cheap delaying tactics
I suspect that it is much cheaper to file a law suite and get a temporary injunction, than it is to get one lifted. And if filing it delays a competing product from being launched, it means that you have a longer time to attempt to dominate a market, and reap as much profit as possible.
I can see a scenario where Apple hire just graduated lawyers cheap, and say to them "Here are the arguments, take them and stall in court; it doesn't matter if you don't win, just drag it out as long as possible".
Mind you, I suspect that the Japanese might be prepared to back an oriental company over an American one, especially for technology products where Japan excels, so Apple could have their nose bloodied in court over this one.
Re: Cheap delaying tactics
Since the basis of at least one of Apple's cases is no more than "your gizmo has rounded corners", I'm personally pretty much convinced that their motives are purely anti-competitive.
I'd like to see them fined for abuse of process or being labelled as a vexatious litigant. The latter would presumably make them unable to sue ever again for patent violations and their only option would be to sell all their IP to someone who could (and to whom it would therefore have some value).
I'd have to agree with this. I've looked at Samsung Galaxy S next to iPhone 4. the two don't look similar at all, and the Tab neither looks nor behaves like an iPad. This is simply an attempt to delay release of competing products. Nothing more. It's all BS. It's not going to work. ICS and Kal-El are coming and Samsung isn't the only Tablet manufacturer. More to the point, in 2012, Windows 8 will be across the Desktop, Tablet, and Smartphone. Will Apple try to sue Microsoft claiming they stole that idea from them? They can try but all they will do is fail at that.
And for the record, Apple doesn't make a 7.7" Tablet.
Poetry? How about a little music?
"Fly into the rising sun... Apple, suing everyone"
They've been the ruin of many a poor boy
Oh God I know I'm one
Its a good time to be a lawer.
"Its a good time to be a lawer."
But what if that isn't available because one is a human being?
Not the fault of Apple
What's the point of patents if they are not exercising them, having gone through the "expensive" process of trying to protect their intellectual properties.
Patents for different sectors/industries should be revised otherwise as others have pointed out, they are just going to stifle innovations. Companies or individuals should rightfully be rewarded for coming out something innovative. But a balance needs to be struck on all these software, UI patents...
I think there are simply too many patents in the US now to sort them all out. I think the patent system has become unfit for purpose. I also think too many companies/corporations know this and are taking advantage of it. What's been needed for some time is to get all the patents on computer so they can be compared, both against each other and against the rules for granting them and those that are pretty much duplicated and those that don't match the rules are removed, and then the results can be opened up to searching to everyone so we can see what the existing patents are and who actually holds them. Then we can avoid wasting time working on something that someone else has already patented...
However, this current spate of patent infringement claims is nothing more than an attempt to slow down competition: Prevent rival products reaching market. Apple don't want the competition to take away market shares, and Samsung, HTC etc all want to close the gap and get a bigger bite of the *cough* apple...
"Another day, another tech giant starts a patent lawsuit."
Another day, and the same ol greedy, megalomaniac company decided to start a patent lawsuit.
there fixed that for you.
meanwhile, on another page on the same site...
it's not just apple.
Who kicked this all off? Think you will find it was Apple. This is just payback
He started it!
Countersuits don't count when you're looking for the Bad Guy.
They started it!
That's really your response? What are you, five years old?
not sure about that
i thought it was nokia that started it in the phone industry?
Can APPLE EARN faster than a LAWYER can SPEND ?
Now that HTC has access to GOOGLE PATENTS ... Samsung will probably be next.
Apple has pissed off the wrong crowd.
I don't see how
If you hold an iPhone in one hand and a Galaxy S2 in the other, there's absolutely no way you could confuse the two. Even my grandmother would be able to tell they're two different model phones.
I do see how
the only valid reason seems to be because a lot of people can't tell shit from apple
What a load of rubbish...
Samsung ripped off apple as their previous phones where getting hammered by the iPhone. You hear a lot of people coming on here saying but its a generic design, no way is it a rip off, its how you have to build a touch screen phone.
Funny how the Google G1 is an android handset, touchscreen would you believe and yet manages to look nothing whatsoever like the iPhone.
Apple somes out with the black slab, sells them by the truck load, and suddenly the Samsung Galaxy 2 comes along. The tocco and tocco lite, previous handsets made by samsung look nothing like the iPhone, the Galaxy is a rip off , designed to get those buyers who can't afford the iPhone.
Apples beef is simple , you spend you own money and design your own damn products, don't wait for them to do the RnD and then expect them to watch while you rip them off, stuff that!
The chips inside the box are patentable, the shape of the box shouldn't be.
As far as I can tell, Samsung haven't ripped off iOs.
Get a life
Are you able to understand that some people will not buy Apple because they don't like the product and/or company, and not because they cannot afford it? When I bought my T-Mobile G2 it was as much as the Iphone 4, and I just got an Asus Transformer, a much better tablet than the Ipad 2, and it's the same price again, except I got an extra keyboard and battery and a better screen, plus some USB and HDMI ports.
The Galaxy costs as much as an iPhone so it's designed to get who exactly?
As for 'you spend you own money and design your own damn products, don't wait for them to do the RnD and then expect them to watch while you rip them off' - please pick me up off the floor, laughing so hard that you think Apple, the daddy of ripping off other peoples work are in any way innovative
@A.C. 10:12 GMT
What has Google done to innovate Android? You mean other than adding support for more hardware (gps, cameras, motion sensors, magnetometers, etc), application and memory management tools ("running services", "battery use", etc), and access to a PHYSICAL keyboard (if the phone manufacturer so chooses)? Oh, how about proper multi-tasking, which Android had before iOS.
Just because you may prefer an iPhone, doesn't mean everything else is simply a copy of an iPhone. It's GOOD for both sides that there is choice (as much as Apple may hate having competitors).
"You mean other than adding support for more hardware (gps, cameras, motion sensors, magnetometers, etc), application and memory management tools ("running services", "battery use", etc), and access to a PHYSICAL keyboard (if the phone manufacturer so chooses)? Oh, how about proper multi-tasking, which Android had before iOS."
I can bet there are hundreds of examples of each of them as 'prior art'. Now, you may argue that the Android platform didn't have them, but if MS copying OS X isn't innovation then I can't say this is, either.
And I'm not saying Apple invented them, either. In fact, Apple's innovation generally isn't that they are the first to do something, but the first to do something in a way that resonates with the public ie the first to do it right. There is definite value in that; you'll notice there aren't a lot of Altairs and Osbornes around these days.
Just a Small point....
iPhone 4 launch date - 24th June 2010
Samsung Galaxy S launch date - March 2010
How can they copy a products form factor which was launched after them?
As for UI, anyone with eyes can see that Apple and Android handle things in very different ways from the get go. There will be small things like photo browsing having the same "sweeping" gesture to browse but I don't think Apple invented that.
Yes becuase obviously no way that samsung could have found out from 3rd party suppliers what the case design was like nooooooo wayyyy
So now we know
where all the people who left SCO ended up.
- One HUNDRED FAMOUS LADIES exposed NUDE online
- Google flushes out users of old browsers by serving up CLUNKY, AGED version of search
- China: You, Microsoft. Office-Windows 'compatibility'. You have 20 days to explain
- GCHQ protesters stick it to British spooks ... by drinking urine
- Twitter: La la la, we have not heard of any NUDE JLaw, Upton SELFIES