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back to article Shareholder demands RIM sell itself or spin off patents

A shareholder has told RIM it should consider selling itself or spinning off its patent portfolio. The CEO of Jaguar Financial Group, who would not say how large Jaguar's RIM stake is, told the company it should act to shore up share prices. He said his proposal has the support of other shareholders who together hold less than 5 …

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WTF?

Greed..

Quote: "The CEO of Jaguar Financial Group, who would not say how large Jaguar's RIM stake is, told the company it should act to shore up share prices"

So, shareholders are more important than the technology and IP that RIM has invested in over the years?

Nonsense, RIM has a unique product that works very well in the business world.

The long period between products [usually] assures stability in the product and services wrapped around it. Production line based product releases haven't worked overly well for the likes of Nokia. Sometimes there is such a thing as too many choices from a manufacturer.

This is the Wall Street mentality that can be and has been the ruin of many a great company..

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Trollface

@Mondo

Don't be silly.. don't you know share price is king! lol

*export jobs to 3rd world countries - check

*sell patents and gut company strengths - check

*assume the company is competing in a vacuum and other companies you compete with wouldn't want to snap up your patents and then use them against you - check

*stupidly assume your short term financial goals match the long term goals of the company's stock you purchased - check

If RIM sold it's IP it would be out of business in a year!

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It's not Wall Street it's RIM

"Nonsense, RIM has a unique product that works very well in the business world."

should be:

"Nonsense, RIM HAD a unique product that works very well in the business world."

The problem for RIM is that Apple and Google are offering "good enough" alternatives to it's USP and "much better" to everything else. RIM may still be the world champion in messaging and mobile keyboards but if you want someone to run to the shops to get some bread, anyone who can get into the Olympics is "good enough".

This has been shown in their finance reports. RIM are still growing but way below the overall smartphone market. Now that's not a problem but it is a warning. The real problem is how they have got that growth ie how they have answered the challenge from Google and Apple. They have done that by producing cheaper phones, they have cut their prices! This has led to lower margins and lower profits. A couple of quarters while you adapt is fine but this has been going on for 2+ years now and thats not fine as Nokia will tell you (still got a Nokia phone, their problem was stupidity at the top).

RIM are now in the position where Apple are pushing them out of the high margin high end and Andoid has rapidly commoditize the mid-range. Their USP is about to be destroyed by imessage and the Google equivalent and they suddenly decided to be a CE company! WOT why the hell did RIM spend 15 months of managerial time and money producing the Playbook? Because of Apples iPad! If Ford started producing baked beens would Heinz respond by setting up a car factory or just say "bring it on, we know what we are doing and can do it better than you". Thats why RIM are fucked. They don't know what they are producing or why they they are making the stuff they make (can anyone tell me why RIM NEEDED to make the Playbook) or who their customers are.

RIM are dead in the water unless they answer what, why, who. That is "what do we make", "why do we make it" and "who do we sell it to". Untill they can ask those questions they can not ask "how do we move forward" and if RIM can't move forward they are dead. Since the people running RIM refuse to even concider asking these questions, I see little hope for RIM. Wall Street may be filled with wankers but they can smell a loser. RIM needs a clear out at the top, it's a "one trick pony" that is smartphones. It needs to rapidly sort it self out and focus on making the best phones it can or "so long and thanks for all the fish".

Notably this took around 2 years for IBM and Apple to do, the 2 greatest corporate turnarounds in history. IBM took at the time the greatest corporate losses in history to do the turn around. Apple had Steve Jobs plus 2+ billion in the bank which was more than it stock market price, hence Michael Dell (Apple had around $1 billion in the bank, plus Microsofts $150 million investment plus a multi-year settlement over Quicktime that got Apple another $1 billion) comment about selling off Apple. RIM dosn't have the money or the leadership and I dont think they have the time.

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Facepalm

Everybody's Shares...

...perform worse than Apple or Google.

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Facepalm

Twin CEOs

The board need to fire both of them unless they admit things are not working and they need to make significant changes.

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Facepalm

Jaguar financial

A company worth CAD 7m, trying to get some free publicity.

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Anonymous Coward

I'll help translate...

"maximize shareholder value before more market value is lost.”

Using Google Translate

MoneyMan > English

"fuck up the companies long term future so I can cash in quick"

No Joke Icon as this is sadly the truth...

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Silver badge

Me too

That was my initial reaction too, sell off the valuable bits and damn the company to a long slow death spiral after a short-term peak in value to let the lucky few offload stock quickly at a profit.

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Angel

How things have changed in the past few years

Few years back RIM they were the purveyor of Buisnessmen everywere. Now there the tools of yobs and twonk.

Was downhill since the perl IMHO, disregarding your main bulk of customers for the girly subsumer market was and is lamentation epoc for RIM. Now I know you do nice SLA's for your telco distrubuters but do they pass on said SLA's down to your consumers, not realy. So customer gets and outage - telco dont pay that month so make money and customers - well they just plain old pay period and have to run up hills backwards for a sniff of any goodwill. So just that aspect was opertunity for customers to go get a iPoon(sic) becasue they got the same level of service garantee - funny that. Perish the thought you even thought about doing the vurtual telco route and leveraging more revenue streams.

Still the youth of today with there cheap BB's will prolly go sad when they find the new OS only runs on newer phones, not that they need it but they do have a thing about being ignored and left out.

Google could buy and asset strip RIM nicely, Microsoft could as well, so could Apple. Though with such epic fails from the RIM managment over the past few years I highly expect most will be waiting for RIM to breakup itself as will be easier and cheaper with less monoply commision issues to go thru.

How long until RIM is reduced to a entry on the appstore under legacy email systems>?

Also how much longer for that github release of all those internal snafu's }->

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Bronze badge

^ this

Swapping businesspeople with expensive phone plans for teenagers on PAYG, who if my kids and their friends are any indication, use BBM nonstop on creditless phones, does not appear to be a viable long term proposition.

Vultures are circling.

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creditless phones

" creditless phones" are the networks problem. BB is pretty clever for releasing phones that can be used creditless!

What makes you think that still having "teenagers" as customers means you can't also have businesspeople? Maybe without the teenagers, they would now have nothing?

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g e
Silver badge

The value of your investment may go up or down

The jerk's investment is underperforming. Unlucky.

I'm sure RIM are doing what they can to survive, this guy just wants to blame RIM instead of himself for making what turned out to be a shonky investment

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Boffin

So in other words, investing in RIM was stupid?

Also who else can he blame for RIMs performance but RIM?

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FAIL

Long period between products [usually] assures stability

If only that were true, RIM have a shocking track record for extremely long dev cycles and releasing products (both hardware and software) that is not ready for market.

The end for RIM will be long and drawn out.....

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FAIL

Rubbish and hogwash

Personally, I think RIM is the laughing stock of the smart phone industry. I have developed for pretty much all the platforms at some level or another and found RIM to be just a joke.

Let's look at the way they treat developers. Before I could even get my hands on the SDK to decide whether I wanted to develop for Blackberry, it wanted A LOT of information from me. I couldn't even look at the docs without signing away my life. Screw that... sorry you need me... I don't need you.

Then they're treating people like idiots. They're selling QNX as if it were a solution to everything. QNX for lack of anything else is simply another unix kernel. One that was designed to run in real-time which utterly sucks for user experience in general (programmed for QNX, it's no exception) and in general, with the exception of a more or less great kernel for things like machine control, was REALLY REALLY incomplete. I don't know if they still do it, but they built the entire UI on top of Photon GUI which is a really bad hack that is similar in nature to the Xt and Motif programming paradigm which made coding for Unix in the old days miserable.

Their platform is heavily based on Java. This is actually utter crap. Java is neat for running applets, but without a proper native code interface (like that found on Android), there's no hope for a platform like this. No one wants to port their apps to java and using tools which compile other languages into java generally suck. So the only apps you'll get are from die hard freaks and script kiddies.

But, now that I've based how crappy I feel blackberry really is and how I think the guys marketting it are a bunch of crooks for lying to the public and to their investors about how QNX will make a different in their boring as shit software paradigm, let's talk about investors.

If your company sucks and can't make money and survive on its own, investors are really important and lying, cheating, stealing and selling babies are perfectly reasonable to keep the investors from taking over your company. After all, letting professional gamblers have a say in what you're doing is stupid... well unless you happen to be a casino.

If you have a product which is interesting and able to support your company, then investors can yap yap yap all they want and frankly, they're irrelevant since so long as you don't need to ask the professional gamblers for more money, the value of your share has nothing to do with whether your company succeeds or not.

RIM unfortunately has become a pretty big joke among serious developers. We don't even pick on Windows Phone the way we laugh at the pathetic offering from RIM. When we talk with each other, we say things like "Watch where you step, you don't want to step in the BlackBerry development world" and stuff like "Ewww... you're a Blackberry developer" and pull away, scared it might get on you.

Because of that, I have to say, unless Blackberry can somehow recover some cool, they might as well close up shop or just become the next Nokia and use either Android or Windows Phone 7. It's entirely clear that their not capable of making their own software.

Oh... P.S. - to all those freaks out there who want to talk about how secure BlackBerry is since it's never been hacked etc... that's yesterday's Blackberry... today's has enough functionality that it's becoming more hackable by the day and it'll take some time before they catch up with the other platforms again. Lack of hackability was directly linked to lack of functionality.

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Silver badge
Facepalm

Capitalism FAIL

The original point of having shares in a company was to take a percentage of the company's profits as dividend. Shareholders who are investing for the long term do not worry too much about share value because the value is in the medium to long-term return, and so they are more concerned about a companies' long-term prospect than it's immediate valuation.

Modern (last 30-40 years) investors / b(w)ankers have lost this concept of long-term stable game and many are only interested in a quick buck. Hence they are not motivated by return on investment (dividend) but capital gains, and so there is this modern unhealthy obsession with share price and market cap.

RIM are in the position in the business market that no-one is going to break into unless/until Windows gets its mobile exchange+winphone act together. Apple will never allow company admins the access to the iPhone that is required to work at a corporate level, so even if no doubt a few CEOs will be accommodated to have their iPhone access work emails, the vast majority of corporate grunts who have no say in the matter will get issued Blackberrys.

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WTF?

@ James Micallef

I merely want to point out that my company uses Exchange as an email/calendar/contacts server and I use my iPhone to securely access all of that data with no problems at all. Not only that, but when I added the work Exchange account to my iPhone it actually forced me to protect the phone with a PIN or else... no mail.

All email and calendar events are pushed instantly to the phone (I hear the phone beep before Outlook has a chance to see there's a new email or meeting request)

I am pretty damn sure that Exchange + iPhone work very well together and therefore are suitable for the enterprise. Also, Apple provide admin tools to remotely control and wipe phones.

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Alert

Really?

Can you remove the PIN now that you've set it? I can and there's not much I (as an admin) can do about it. Granted it's not a. Company iPhone, but the tools for the company ones are poor too, and iPhones give exchange a right battering. They should ( IMO) be considered a consumer device rather than a business ready device for now.

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@ Simon

No, if I remove the PIN I am no longer able to download email or calendars from the corporate Exchange.

About iPhones giving Exchange a battering, I wouldn't know since I am not in IT really (I'm a developer) but I believe it if you say so.

All I was trying to say, at least in my companies, both Android and iPhone phones are able to (securely) connect to the corporate email and calendar facilities without hassle.

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Or in other words it works

Is it only in the IT world where "admins"* complain about having to do the job they are paid for?

*feel free to replace that with people and downvote me

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Thumb Down

NO just fail

The vast majority of shares are held by pension and insurace companies. They want the best return on their buck, so that they can provide the best return to their policy holders. If a company can't give them that they will go to someone who can. Why should they invest in a compay that is clealy failing? That has incompetent managmeant and no plan for the future beyond saying "we will do the same"?

RIM are in a position that Nokia was 3 years ago and are like Nokia in denial. RIM need to adapt or they are history and only a fool would bet on them changing. As for shareholders not caring about the long term, how the hell did Google, Apple or Microsoft get to be $100 billion dollar companies? In each case people took a risk betting on the future.

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Flame

What a fscking shame

Business is no longer important. Products are no longer important, services are no longer important. The only important thing is the fscking share price for those parasites who want share prices to peak so they can offload and pad their own personal wealth at the expense of the business, its employees and its customers.

Time for a revolt against the banks and Wall Street for killing off the geese that laid the golden eggs.

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Bronze badge
Facepalm

Jaguar Boss: "We want a do-over!"

"Our guys weren't quick enough to sell when the stock hit its peak, so we want a do-over!"

Sorry -- if you're looking for the quick return on your investment, your guys have to be on the ball and know which way to jump and when. In this case, "they snoozed and you lose."

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