Style, practicality, economy and sporting performance - not necessarily aspects of the car makers’ art you would expect to find all combined in a single model. But that’s what you'll get with the arrival of a new generation of rather desirable but also extremely frugal diesel coupés from the likes of Renault and Volkswagen. Its …
I rented one of these the other week
and fully agree with this review. Great fun and once you're on the go you'll be hard-pressed to tell it's a diesel. Also, the stop/start is about the least intrusive system I've used, although that may come at some cost to the ultimate fuel economy. On top of that, it's a VW: it ain't going to break.
it's a VW: it ain't going to break....
You driven any recent VWs for any decent length of time (years, not days)??
My passat was plauged with issues and than new electronic handbrake is about the most unrelaible "switch" ever.
I've owned veedubs for over 20 years and i've watched them get more and more complicated and more and more unreliable.
Which is why i passed them over at my last car change....
But it's a Passat
Odd, but the people I know who've complained about VW have all been Passat owners. Okay, in one case it was a Golf owner who'd have complained about being hung with an old rope, but still, thinking of the VW owners I know -- five Golfs, two Touaregs, three Jettas, a Phaeton, a Rouaton, and even an Eos -- only the four Passat owners have complained.
Not sure if you notice from the review but its NOT a fucking passat
VWs never fail? What?
I bought a brand new VW Transporter van that failed within 10 minutes due to a catastrophic engine failure. They then put another engine in and that one failed as well...needless to say I told them to stuff the third one somewhere unpleasant. This was after I'd spent another £4k converting the inside of the van. Never fail my a*se.
Owning is different from renting
And you can get a 3 door Golf (5 seats, not 4) with the same engine, same adaptive suspension and leather for less (£23,270 ont he website).
To be fair, you can't have the stop start, but it sounds like it doesn't always work anyway, and must add lots of electrical stuff to go wrong.
Don't know if you noticed, but he wasn't talking about the review, he was replying to a reply on his comment.
Even an Eos
I know they are not exactly common but people do own them. I do.
More car reviews....?
"While it lacks the immediate thump-in-the-back of the 2.0 litre turbo petrol engines"
...thump-in-the-back from a FWD car...?
"With 138bhp on tap the 0-60 sprint takes a somewhat leisurely 9.3 seconds but the top speed is an autobahn-friendly 129mph."
...clearly you don't go on autobahns...
I think the thump in the back comes from acceleration, which also occurs in FWD cars, I believe.
not at 140 BHP in a 1.6 ton car, no sorry sir.
i do wonder...
"I’d suggest reserving Sport for track days"
why would you take one of these onto a track?
why would you take one of these onto a track?
To see how crap most cars really are when you actually DRIVE them....
Nothing like total brake failure on the 3rd lap to realise how cheap they are.
Re: why would you take one of these onto a track?
All that tells you is "you took your road car onto a track and broke it, you moron".
And the extras...
Fantastic cars... the 160bhp petrol is still the pick of the bunch for me but this one is well worth a look if you value the economy more than the driving - but there isn't that much in it either way!
As for DSG, I agree it doesn't work too well on the lower powered Diesel... but for folks who drive in town a lot, it's a phenomenal option, on the Petrol cars it is the opposite - improving economy and reducing CO2 so much more worthy there!
Another benefit of DSG (or automatic in general) is it's far better suited for cruise control although you probably don't get to use it that much in the UK.
I also wonder whether the Manual/DSG fuel figures are that realisable i.e. are they figures achieved under certain testing conditions using an experience test driver who knows exactly when to change to get the best out of it? I believe so, in which case the DSG should give better real-World economy unless you're a Larry Leadfoot. It also has a semi-auto option should you need to prompt it for an approaching hill (towing etc).
I'm left wondering why the same engine is so much slower accelerating than my Jetta - I assume it's gear ratio related with the BlueMotion gubbings.
I have a Mk5 Golf GTI DSG and love the gearbox. I'd say that it scores in two main areas: 1) around town (slow moving traffic and also it'll get in to 5th gear quickly at 30mph)
2) overtaking, it has the balls to drop to 4th at 95mph which I sure as hell don't myself if you bury your right foot.
Regarding stats, I think VW 'massage' their 0-60 figures to differentiate more between their lower-power and higher-power models. Officially my GTI does 0-60 in 6.9 but using Racetech kit can consistently pull 6.5 which is close to the R32.
I reckon they do the same on the diesels to make a case for the 170bhp.
Nice article Alun.
'all about surfing that wave of torque to surge past the inattentive and the timid' sums up motoring nicely.
I understand the true BlueMotion cars are 100% tax deductable, presumably this isn't?
Not all of them.
The Polo definitely is, the old (mk5) Golf definitely wasn't... Not sure about the new one without consulting the big G.
Basically any car with CO2 emissions < 100g/km is free - although that is likely to change.
The review says Band C for road tax
So definitely not 100% deductible.
Here's a few criticisms of the "greenness" the reviewer forgot
-there is a hint that the reviewer drove above the speed limit. If the review was conducted in the UK, that is an admission of guilt which ought to interest the police.
-fuel economy suffers from aggressive acceleration and driving above 70mph, both of which this vehicle appears to emphasise
-all "green" cars take up as much space as "brown" cars.
-the overall CO2 footprint of the VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda portfolio is pretty weak. Yes, they hype their bluemotion, but BMW have made far better progress in reducing their average CO2 emission rate than VAG have. The BlueMotion product line is essentially there to look eco-smug -at a premium- rather than fix the efficiency of the total fleet.
"-there is a hint that the reviewer drove above the speed limit. If the review was conducted in the UK, that is an admission of guilt which ought to interest the police."
STFU you middle lane hogging git. (I'm assuming a bit there - but the MO fits)
He doesn't state where he drove - but for all you know it could have been on a deserted, dry, straight motorway. Still technically illegal, but hurting no-one.
"-fuel economy suffers from aggressive acceleration and driving above 70mph, both of which this vehicle appears to emphasise"
Not always - my 03 Golf TDi gets better MPG at 85 than at 70.
And I'd much prefer a car with more accelerating potential in the 40 - 90MPH range - all the better for overtaking YOU doing 45 MPH on a 50 road.
For one thing it is a damn sight safer to be able to put your foot down and get past someone before the 18Wheeler runs you down.
-all "green" cars take up as much space as "brown" cars.
And you take up as much space as the next person - what's your point?
"-the overall CO2 footprint of the VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda portfolio is pretty weak. Yes, they hype their bluemotion, but BMW have made far better progress in reducing their average CO2 emission rate than VAG have. The BlueMotion product line is essentially there to look eco-smug -at a premium- rather than fix the efficiency of the total fleet."
They've made better PROGRESS, that doesn't make it better overall.
That's because BMW have only just (<10 years) started making smaller, more efficient cars... i.e. 1 Series and Mini. VAG always have made smaller cars, and so their only improvements are to existing lines.
If Bugatti suddenly added a 1-series Efficient-Dynamics type car to their lineup, then their PROGRESS would be vastly better than the two wouldn't it?
You slightly missed the point, yeah blah blah.. but at the end of the day the Scirocco looks unique on the road and a BMW/Audi looks like any other BMW/Audi. If you drive a Scirocco around town you get a lot more attention and envious looks then you would ever get from a boring grey box.
re: There's a hint that the reviewer drove above the speed limit
It doesn't say where he drove faster than the speed limit, maybe it was on one of the track days he refers to or on private land in which case you can drive as fast as you want. An admission of guilt would be 'when I was doing 90 on the motorway', I do hope you aren't in the Police or the CPS but I fear you probably are.
I've got a 2009 Scirocco TDI and I absolutely love it. The only thing wrong with it is the rear visibility isn't great; I got the rear parking sensors option to help with that. The improved fuel economy and lower tax bracket of this version one means I'll have to see how much I can get for my current one on trade-in, it might well be worth me upgrading. I get about 40-45mpg on my daily commute, I think the stop-start might make a big improvement on that.
Can't you just stop and start the engine yourself? It's not much more effore than putting it in neutral and releasing the clutch, surely?
But automated Stop-Start reduces a car's official fuel consumption figures so that you might typically pay £30 per annum instead of £90 for car tax, which is real £££. Plus automated Stop-Start has a beefier battery and dynamically assesses its state before turning off. So when very cold (lots of heating on) or very hot (likewise aircon) it won't bother.
DSG is fantastic: convenience of an auto, almost the economy & performance of the manual. In town it's fantastic, and there's enough control to still make the B roads fun.
"Do that to a sports coupé and what you end up with won’t be much of a sports coupé any longer"
What, make it more aerodynamic, and it's not a sports coupé any more? Huh?
Take the point regarding the fuel consumption + automatic = less good, but interestingly the latest BMW 1 series (about to hit the streets) has an 8-speed auto that gives BETTER fuel-consumption and LESS emissions in the more powerful versions (comparable, or better, than the BHP of the VW here). Which feels a bit like discovering perpetual motion.
See my above... but VW/Audi were the first to offer better MPG and lower emissions with the DSG (or S Tronic) gearboxes. Though bizarrely only in the petrol cars. BMW et al are just playing catch up.
Anyone who buys diesel is silly though so not really an issue :D
Re: Automatic mpg
"Take the point regarding the fuel consumption + automatic = less good, but interestingly the latest BMW 1 series (about to hit the streets) has an 8-speed auto that gives BETTER fuel-consumption and LESS emissions in the more powerful versions"
Can't comment on the BMW implementation, but for VW, the petrol DSG gearbox typically has 7 gears vs 6 for the manual, so you get better economy/emissions by having the extra gear. Conversely, most of the diesels have 6 gears in both configuration, so the automatics tend to suffer on that side ...
Only the smaller 1.4 engined petrol cars have the 7 speed wet clutch system... the 2.0 petrol and Diesel cars have a 6 speed dry clutch system due to the extra torque.
The 7 Speed one is stunning though!
>>> Pressing on in the Scirocco is all about surfing that wave of torque to surge past the inattentive and the timid
God, you "petrol heads" are so annoying.
Also not quite...
This review is clearly from a 'Diesel head' petrol heads are already half a mile further down the road
Even "petrol heads" are just "tin-box, slow-motion zombies" to bikers...:-)
Though as a biker I grow alarmed that 1.5 tons of metal now gets similar (and sometimes better) mpg to large capacity bikes. Methinks the bike manufacturers need to start focusing on economy again - wasn't that one of the reason bikes were popular in the first place?
1000hp+ per ton is fine for me...but would it be too much to ask to get more economy next time?
Re:Also not quite...
Unless the diesel head is driving an Audi Q7 6.0 V12 TDI
Tin-box, slow motion zombies?
Maybe in a Scirocco, but not in a 'proper' car. 145 along the north end of the A9 with a bike screaming along behind you (not being shaken off but not able to overtake either) and a V8 roaring in front of you is a hell of a lot of fun :D
I have the feeling that this is a moot point, though- the sort of person who'd buy a VeeDub Scirocco Diesel Bluemotion doesn't seem like the sort of person who'd even try to match a bike. Or have anything to do with bikes other than yell "ORGAN DONOR!" and feel safe and smug.
The shape of the Scirocco........
....always looks to me like a VW Golf that has sat in a microwave for a minute and melted slightly.
Economically speaking, these vehicles really don't make any sense at all unless you're truly in the market for a new car. The cost savings on fuel (one of the common arguments I hear from the greenies as a GREAT reason to buy one) equates to taking over 30 years for the car to pay for itself.
By that time I'd expect 2 more of them would be required, which means they are not cost efficient at all. Now granted, when they come down into a much more reasonable range of cost, then yes, there will be a definite economic reasoning for purchasing one. Until then, my very evil road hog will still be more economically sound.
.. when i costed our Eos as to whether to go for petrol or diesel it took about 7 years to pay for the initail cost differecne with about a 3ppl difference allowing 12k miles a year.
Compare your Eos
to, say, a BMW 840Ci. 30mpg on a motorway run (though 19-ish around town). But it only cost me £3500 (They're not usually that cheap- this one was an utter bargain!).
It's faster, more comfortable, just as easy to drive and probably easier to work on (the M62 V8 engine has been used all over for >10 years so it's well-understood by mechanics, has a massive supply of spares and provides all the modern on-board diagnostics you could want!), can seat 4 adults (so long as 2 of them are mid-5ft or less). Plus it'll cruise from John O'Groats to Reading without raising an eyebrow- <2000rpm at 70mph? As an aside, Alun Taylor, THAT is what makes something a GT car. A Grand Tourer.
Now okay, it uses (roughly) twice as much petrol as the Eos. But the £20k saving over a mid-range Eos (£23-ish according to the website) is equivalent to (at £1.33 per litre for fuel) over 100,000 miles of motorway driving or about 75,000 miles 'combined'.
sure, it looks like a nice enough car...
But "sporting performance"? 9.4 seconds to 60? Maybe in 1965... My beater '93 Ford Escort did that with a blown head gasket - hell, the F250 Super Duty hits 60 in 9 flat, if I recall correctly, and might still do it while towing this vee dub. And it gets 25mpg on the highway...
Also, diesel belongs in bulldozers and big rigs, not cars. When I was in Valencia I kept hearing delivery trucks come up behind me, but then they were actually S-Classes - new ones, too. It's like seeing a beautiful woman, and then she speaks with James Earl Jones' voice. Eughghugh!
My Yankdar is going off again.
You must have been in Valencia in the 1980s. Modern Diesels are quiet and refined with only a hint of rattle. There is no way that you heard a new S-Class over the sound of your own engine - none - zlich. Unless you were riding a bicycle. Or he was doing 80MPH in second gear.
The new small 1.2l - 1.6l TDi engines do rattle a fair bit - especially the Bluemotion ones but not the 2-4l power houses they put in high end Mercs/VAG/Beemers
Diesels have more torque, lower CO2 emissions*, Less Tax (VED) for equivalent Power, WAY better fuel consumption**, last longer ***, can run on nearly anything****, and retain their value for longer*****. What's not to like?
* yes yes they have higher NO2 among other things, but when you take into account that a diesel will probably have an on-the-road life nearly double that of an equivalent petrol, and the pollution caused by the manufacture of that second petrol car - well you get the idea.
** Even taking the higher cost of Diesel into account - yes
*** Yes the servicing is slightly more expensive - but not massively so like some make out - and as I've said - the car will last probably twice as long.
***** Just not the French ones...
Guilty as charged - but I'm still right about diesels. :)
Torque is nice and all, but turbo petrols have quite a bit themselves, good mileage, and don't sound like a dying old man. And I was in Valencia in 2009 (irc) and the situation I described was with me walking. Maybe I'm spoiled having been involved with motorsport for 20 years, but no diesel is going to raise the hair on your neck like a big block V8 reflecting off the hills as it goes down the Watkins Glen back straight at 150mph. Oh, you might make them sound aggressiive, or get them to rev high, or stop them from rattling... But you won't make them -beautiful-.
How many people hear a diesel go by and say, "Jesus Christ, listen to that thing..."?
If a diesel comes along that satisfies those requirements, I will be wrong, happy, and I will eat my hat - a Williams F1 hat.
I take it...
.... from your comments you are a Merkin, therefore no experience of a real diesel
...you will never read this, but for the record, I have experienced diesels in Valencia (which I specifically mentioned), London, Budapest, and Helsinki, among others. Is that enough?
But hey, don't let that stop you from generalizing about 'Merkins'. I'll go get my gun and ten gallon hat, plant myself in my 30-foot-long duallie F250, and heft my wobbling bulk over to the McDonald's for a super-size Big Mac.
I take it you drive either a diesel or a little 4-pot petrol engined car then, or you'd know what a good engine note sounds like.
4-cyl: Farty, or bellowing through a bucket disguised as a tailpipe and not doing much.
V6: Smooth, makes a lovely sound when you floor it.
V8: mmmm, V8s... either shouty American ones or smoother, more refined (but less exciting) European ones.
V10: Pretty varied, but generally sound... odd. Nice, but odd.
Diesel: Tractor. As much as the adverts like to say you'll never know the difference, you can always, ALWAYS tell the Diesel. Weird torque curve and more of an agricultural sound to it. Nothing particularly wrong with them- in vans or family cars they're great, but like David said they just don't have the smooth sound or awe-inspiring roar of a 'proper' engine. Maybe when someone sells a V12 diesel the matter will be settled.
Believe it or not
@DRendar: Six months ago I was hit from behind by a Porsche doing more than twice my speed on a deserted, dry, straight motorway. Thank you Mercedes for construction safety and I was barely scratched. I am lucky to be alive; please don't encourage these crazy people who are convinced they are outstanding drivers.