back to article Prime Minister recalls holidaying MPs after London riots

Prime Minister David Cameron has recalled Parliament after three nights of rioting, looting and arson on London's streets. The Palace of Westminster is currently in recess until 5 September, but MPs have been told to return to the House of Commons for one day on Thursday. Meanwhile, retailers across the capital are still …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Silver badge

A diversionary tactic?

> MPs have been told to return to the House of Commons for one day on Thursday

So is the idea to prevent further destruction of private property by presenting the arsonists and thieves with an even juicier target in Westminster?

1
0
Bronze badge
Happy

I'll second that

park the tanks, troops, helicopter gunships etc round the back. Let the rioters collect. Round them up. Rinse and repeat.......................

Sadly it won't work these people aren't protesters, they are just thieving scum. But a nice thought anyway.

3
1
Thumb Down

Title

The armed forces would not be used against civilians, that is what the police are for.

3
0
Silver badge
Big Brother

So say we all

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

5
0
Stop

The answer is the army...

... but not in the way you're thinking.

Instead of paying these yobs welfare handouts, re-introduce conscription, and pay them the equivalent as a wage whilst focussing their aggression, teaching them respect, and bringing our armed forces back up to strength.

Then after a bit of enforced growing-up, which our schools seem incapable of providing, they can be re-introduced as positive members of our society.

2
5
Silver badge

and then what? ...

> re-introduce conscription

once they get de-scripted, they come back onto the streets except know they've been trained in the use of automatic weapons and 6 ways to kill you, using just their thumb. And the blokes are likely to be even more dangerous.

4
0

National service

"Then after a bit of enforced growing-up, which our schools seem incapable of providing, they can be re-introduced as positive members of our society."

But with weapons and tactical training too, and the benefit of being made really fit into the bargain.

Why not just have them all chained together and pick up litter, clean drains, scrub graffitti, clear the canals, return the plasma TV (and pay for the broken windows)...

etc. Under supervision of the army possibly, but making them the army's problem I don't think is a good idea.

1
0
Mushroom

Re: Title

With respect to how the situation escalated, the rioters no longer have the right to call themselves "civilians" and enjoy the rights and protection normally associated with such.

Daniel

1
4
Stop

Britain: do you want an army to fight your wars, or an army as an employment scheme?

It's a nice beguiling fantasy: seargent with twirling moustache against a lot of 'orrible 'olligans, and the NCO turns these truants into men.

But the problem is that the British Armed forces currently (a) have minimum standards for conscripts in education and fitness, which would have to be relaxed to admit the rioters, and (b) is all volunteer. It's not WWII, where there's a common enemy to fight, and where you need every warm bodied male. There will be some who will try it out, because they've got nothing else to do - and there will be others who want to be back with their mates on the street, and just don't have the self-discipline or the smarts for the job.

And when there's the possibility of serving in Afghanistan... my god. I don't know if it would end up that way, but I'm thinking of how the US armed forces - which at the time had a lot of conscripts - decayed in Vietnam.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2877/did-soldiers-really-frag-officers-in-vietnam

"In short, for all the tales of soldiers assaulting gung-ho officers they feared would get them killed, a more likely explanation is that fragging was the work of rear-echelon misfits with anger management and substance issues who sulked after getting chewed out and decided to have their revenge. The nature of the war as such likely contributed only indirectly — its unpopularity discouraged enlistment and compelled the military to accept more trouble-prone recruits. The prevalence of drugs couldn’t have helped either — one study of soldiers returning from Vietnam found one-fifth had been addicted to narcotics."

And who would be the most likely to frag officers in the new conscript-ready British Army? Yes, there at the back? Exactly. The people who had been rioting before being conscripted! And Afghanistan is not known for being short of drugs.

So let's leave our poor seargant alone. He's tough but fair. He doesn't deserve tripping over a line in the barracks and detonating an IED because some smacked-out miscreant wants to be back in Brixton.

Instead, let's try other ideas, like.... cutting austerity measures, tax the rich, and they try to use to get more jobs in the UK. Our would-be miscreant would probably be happier gainfully employed, and having to go to bed early for work next day is a deterrent to rioting. Let's give him a chance, shall we?

Having said that, if National Service is the go, then the conscripts will probably have to work on their physical fitness. Playstations (a favorite target for theft) don't exactly help you at hand-to-hand fighting. So Cameron and Clegg as personal punching bags for the recruits? Suits me, sir.

4
1
Thumb Down

Young people

These are the young people who simply haven't been provided with the educational and employment opportunities that they deserve. The generation of children and young people who have been let down by this and previous governments.

Comments above about National service, and worse are simply barbaric, you should be ashamed for these suggestions. You forget that these disaffected youth are also citizens of the UK.

1
4
Happy

Hmmmm

"Prime Minister David Cameron has recalled Parliament after three nights of rioting, looting and arson on London's streets."

Comes to something when even the PM is out rioting looting and setting fire to things. Tsk!

0
0
Vic
Silver badge

Nonsense.

> These are the young people who simply haven't been provided with the

> educational and employment opportunities that they deserve.

They have been provided with every educational opportunity. To a large extent, they have *chosen* to eschew such opportunities. The State is at fault only inasmuch as it permits an environment where children can make decisions with such onerous consequences at such a young age - but given the reaction I have seen[1] from some parents when a school attempts to discipline a child, it is hardly surprising that we end up with what we've got. That's democracy in action.

Vic.

[1] My missus is a teacher. Irate parents seem to be part of the job, particularly when you point out that children shouldn't be truanting if they expect any future employment opportunities...

1
0
Anonymous Coward

And now we will have...

..to listen to bullshit comments from the politicians claiming the rioters are only doing it because they are poor and oppressed.

Its not really their fault, its the fault of the state or the police or their parents or the education system or their upbringing or whatever.

5
5
Mushroom

Ken

I would have punch Ken Livingstone in the face if I were near him for doing that last night. Utter Idiots.

13
3
Anonymous Coward

Yep

Assign fault later. For the moment, stop those poor unprivileged bastards from destroying what value there is left in their towns.

I have no sympathy "why" you did something like this until someone has stopped you doing it first. And to be honest, I have little sympathy even then because you're the only person responsible for your own actions and you still did it.

You know what, my (great-)grandparents generation had nothing, were given nothing, fought a war for little gratitude and still didn't go rioting through the streets about it. What's the matter? Not getting enough playstations with your benefits money? Aw, shame, so you're *OBVIOUSLY* justified in rioting then and destroying others hard work that they DID earn...

28
6
WTF?

A little history...

> my (great-)grandparents generation had nothing, were given nothing, fought a war for little gratitude and still didn't go rioting through the streets about it.

What, apart from the Tonypandy Riots, the Battle of Bow Street, the Battle of Cable Street and Notting Hill Race Riots to name a few? I'll stop in the 50's given your (great-)grandparents modifier, but there certainly were riots in the early 20th century. None in the 40s... we must have been busy with something else...

8
2
Holmes

those kinds of attitudes

won't prevent a repetition though, will they?

get a grip, what is this the daily wail comments?

6
2
Facepalm

blah blah blah

What an interesting and original take on matters. The part about your grandparents and the war was particularly inspiring and uncliched, and didn't make you sound like a 60-year-old at all.

4
7
Facepalm

What you will find is...

... That certain powers in some legislation that should deal with widespread unrest like this requires parliament to be consulted. This means HoC and HoL, and it does mean that a debate needs to take place to keep rule of law within bounds.

If that wasn't the case, we'd be no better than the banana republics we've been bollocking publicly for their appalling behaviour in the last year.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

@Ocular Sinister

"Battle of Cable Street" was a street fight between Moseley's Blackshirts and anti-fascist demonstrators.

2
0
Stop

Those kinds of attitudes....

Won't afford us answers or solutions will they? It's all well and good slagging off other people's opinions but were are your lofty ideas on how to peacefully resolve the situation and prevent a repition?

Just curious

1
2
Bronze badge
Flame

Suggestions

I have a few ideas on how to resolve the situation, and prevent repetition. I guess things have to get a tad worse before they might be considered. Mind 'peaceful' probably isn't part of the solution to my mind.

These are people that feel they are entitled to things which they haven't worked for, I would suggest some training courses that revise their attitudes.

2
1
Silver badge

Re: Suggestions

These are people that feel they are entitled to things which they haven't worked for, I would suggest some training courses that revise their attitudes.

Like MP's and expencise.

or

Tabloid Jurnalists and 'exclucives'

or

Bankers and Bonuses

or

Local council Executives and golden goodbys

or ....

But you get the picture.

6
0
Holmes

Although...

...they have seen the people who trashed the economy going unpunished and keeping every penny they DIDN'T earn (as we know with the benefit of hindsight.)

It's unlikely the people rioting have put the pieces together and figured that out, but we are seeing a generation with practically zero prospects for the future. So, to that extent, it IS like the 1980s.

Still, on a practical level, the rioters do need to be shot in the interests of public safety.

3
0
Silver badge
Angel

Re: Suggestions

or

You and a spell-checker.

1
0

Re: And now we will have...

Indeed. World + dog is to blame, not the poor rioters.

Daniel

0
0
Silver badge

@AC 19:30

Please keep the pointless opinions on banks out of this. They were lending money to the very people defining the expectation culture who didn't want to work and save but instead have it "now now now damn it". I would argue that the citizens of the country got the banks they deserved - don't complain about bailing them out when you as a collective benefited from excessive borrowing that brought about their downfall. I didn't hear anybody complaining about lax regulation when collecting their increased 100% mortgages to spunk on a holiday and a new car.

That aside, I agree with your final point, these rioters are scum and have no place in our society.

1
2

@Mark 65

You know all these rioters financial histories, how much they borrowed and how much they paid back? Thought not.

Did these people buy property in a house-of-cards US mortgage system? Did they queue up to join Maydorf style ponzi schemes on the promise of obviously unrealistic returns while poach-turned-poacher financial regulators looked the other way? Did they shift millions of people's pensions in and out of get-rich-quick dot com no-hopers? Did they seek to destabilise national currencies in order to speculate. Did they award themselves massive bonuses on the supposed long term profits of money lending that was bound to fail in the short term?

No, I thought not.

2
1
Paris Hilton

Two for one offer

As a matter of practical justice can we have a banker (or ten) included in the tumbrel for every rioter.

It's a fine argument which is worse, reckless greed torching a shopping centre just down the road or reckless greed blighting the lives of everyone but the rich for the next 20 years.

Paris for the IT angle.

1
0
FAIL

It woz Colonel Sandess what done it!

Scotland Yard has begun publishing a gallery of rogues captured on CCTV overnight. It's so far posted 15 images on Flickr

The usual rubbish CCTV pix (another procurement farce?) and the clearest image is that of Colonel Sanders, maniacly grinning in his usual style. He needs to be arrested. Pronto!

3
0
Silver badge
Trollface

Wasn't that "Captain Swing"?

Or maybe General Ludd.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Impressive tech

I especially like the fact that most of them seem to be pictures taken with a camera pointed at a screen with the CCTV video paused on it (although they must have spent a while lining up, some aren't bad considering the frankly pathetic method used to get a screen shot).

I never understood why even the best quality CCTV cameras are worse quality than the absolute worst cheapest cameras you can buy anywhere else - are there really manufacturers who specialise in making crap quality cameras that nobody in their right mind would buy to sell as "high quality CCTV"?

2
0
Anonymous Coward

@Impressive tech

It's not the CCTV cameras that are poor quality, it's the recording medium - many cameras are very high quality, just recorded onto the same weekly recycled tape for decades.

Also - photographing a screen has been a technology that's been used for ages - from oscilloscope poloroids to photographing high res monitors for film special effects.

1
0
Coat

whats the problem ?

i don't get why any one is surprised. some years ago the government abolished discipline, the teaching of respect, and removed bounderies. The consequences were predictable, but no-one stood up to challenge the morons in power. i suspected that the gov weren't short-sighted, but in fact this was a calculated maneuver. The current gov (which no-one voted for) have announced their plan to cut over 2000 cops from London streets (yes, that's justified), and thanks to gov overspending many councils have been forced to shut down 'yoof clubs' etc

So now we have herds of unruly morons running round in 'gangs' with no scruples or respect, with no bounderies and no concept of discipline or consequence, setting fire to hairdressers and coffee shops etc.

Lets see what the gov offer to do, and what we stand to loose so we can have a safe society

17
6
FAIL

Erm. wrong

just because the guy/girl you voted for didn't get in doesn't mean you didn't vote for this government. Everybody who voted, voted for this government, it's called democracy.

You can't blame poiticians for this. Although you and people like you will still try.

7
14
Anonymous Coward

@Sarah

"The current gov (which no-one voted for) "

*blink* You what? I think you'll find that the Tory and Lib Dem voters did. It's not their fault that all three parties are basically the same. If you mean that no-one voted for the PM, then that's true; that's how our system works.

"thanks to gov overspending many councils have been forced to shut down 'yoof clubs' etc"

Well perhaps they should claim the taxes owed by their multi-national buddies? Whoops! HMRC is letting them off their debts and no MP wants to lose their lucrative directorships.

Here's what I want them to do:

1) Deploy the army, restore order even if it means marshal law for a time.

2) Lead by example: *JAIL* those who made fraudulent claims, expel them from the parties, forbid them from ever holding any public office ever again.

3) Sack Hartnett and begin an investigation into his actions.

4) Claw-back the billions owed by the multi-nationals.

5) Lead by example. So important I am saying it twice.

5
3
Silver badge

Erm, double wrong

> Everybody who voted, voted for this government, it's called democracy.

You seem to be confusing the specific and the general cases.

People who vote are supporting the principle of democratic government, but not necessarily the one that wins the election.

Just like if there was a referendum to bring back capital punishment, if I voted against it, that doesn't mean I want CP just because I voted.

10
0
Meh

no confusion

if you voted, you voted for this government.

Your vote was counted, again just because you didn't support the guy that won doesn't mean you vote didn't help to form the government.

A referendum is different, thats a yes or no vote.

2
7
Thumb Up

Protest Vote

I didn’t vote for this government…I voted for Optimus Prime, had to write the name and draw the box before I ticked it but I stand by my decision considering the alternatives.

As a truck Optimus Prime will certainly be for motorists, living in a rural region that’s a big plus for me.

4
1
FAIL

Wrong again

I voted, not for this party (or any of the main three) although some governemnt remains in tact when the parties change so I suppose you could argue I voted for hte currecnt incarnation but it's tenuos at best.

Voting represents your support of democracy, not of party

2
0

Deploy the Army!?

"1) Deploy the army, restore order even if it means marshal law for a time."

Are you all joking, should they use M16 or M60s*? Perhaps we could airstrike London?

I am betting that some form of humbling of the Police for shooting another person under dubious circumstances is more likely to help. The police handling of the initial incident seems a bit dodgy as it transpires that the injured police officer may have been hit with a police bullet rather than the young man in the taxi. So who fired first.

I have to say that : I do not condone the thievery and vandalism taking place with these riots, but feel there is a just reason for the angst. A protest would be a more appropriate action, that is until the police start kettling everyone.

* American weapons, I know.

2
2
Silver badge

@Miek

In fact, I have read, that the round that hit the officer may have been a threw-and-threw from the kill shot i.e. the officer that shot dead the suspect also hit his mate.

1
0
Anonymous Coward

And after looking all the way back

to, say, Blair Peach, stop letting the coppers get away with murder.

0
0
Flame

Led by example

MPs fraudulently claim expense - no action taken.

Bankers take massive risks, ruin the economy, commit frauds - no action taken, bonuses all round.

Police abuse authority - retire early with honours & pension, no action taken.

Civil servants screw up major public contracts - promoted to new positions, no action taken.

Multi-nationals evade taxes - get preferential treatment from HMRC, no action taken.

Whilst some may bemoan the "loss of discipline", which is certainly a factor, the greater problem is that people are led by example. MPs of all parties have been showing that it is A-OK to break the law (or allow others to break it) for personal gain; so why is anyone surprised when something like this happens?

28
3
Anonymous Coward

Some corrections...

MPs fraudulently claim expense - no action taken.

- Actually a few went to court for fraud. Far too few though...

Bankers take massive risks, ruin the economy, commit frauds - no action taken, bonuses all round.

- Actually, the economy and deficit were already well established before the banking crisis. Last straw on the horses back though.

Police abuse authority - retire early with honours & pension, no action taken.

- Didn't they retire before chanrges were pressed? In which case, not much can be done, bar changing the law to allow post-depature charges.

Civil servants screw up major public contracts - promoted to new positions, no action taken.

- You're bloody right there. Overpaid bloody muppets.

Multi-nationals evade taxes - get preferential treatment from HMRC, no action taken.

- If it's legal, it's a 'fair' (well...sort of) cop. I doubt HMRC would have turned down the chance to cash in.

3
5

Have to agree

When the public sector is carving up the tax pot and then when it run out started borrowing more to nick then you can't blame a few people for thinking it seemed like a good idea.

If your allowed to screw the public over if you work for the Goverment why moan when private citizens do it?

1
2
Anonymous Coward

@AC

"I doubt HMRC would have turned down the chance to cash in."

You'd think that, and you'd be wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Hartnett#Vodafone_controversy

4
0
Thumb Up

Ah, so they're bankers ? ? ?

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg called the rioting "opportunistic theft".

( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14442935 )

My reaction from the other side of the pond. "So, we're all bankers now?"

4
0
LPF
Mushroom

@Sarah Davis

I think you will find that more people voted for the tories than any other party and they and the liberals had more seats that you scumbag Labour.

We are in this situation due to 13 years of labour party mismangement of the economy, and decades of liberal chattering class policy that states its OK to bring up wild feral scum becuase thats a lifestye choice!

Well as someone who lives in South London and has seen the results of these polices I wish that for once these scum would head off to islington show you and your friends the results.

They are human pond scum and the sooner they get some 80's styles policing with the end of s tuncheon the better.

But hey you can be garanteed that as soon as the police give the little poor misunderstood darlings a showing the chattering classes will be along to ensure their human rights are upheld!

19
10
Anonymous Coward

@LPF

"We are in this situation due to 13 years of labour party mismangement "

Labour or Tory, we'd be in the same place. The rot started with the previous Tory government (PFI deals etc) and was accelerated by Labour.

MPs act with impunity and without fear of any consequences. So long as they get their junkets and post-ministerial positions, they do not care. It's time this was changed. It's time MPs sucked it up and realised that *they* are partly responsible for this.

12
3

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.

Forums