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back to article Online map suppressing crime reporting, says survey

More than 5.2 million people have not reported crimes for fear of deterring home-buyers or renters since the Home Office's online crime map was launched in February 2011, according to research from insurers Direct Line. An online poll of 2,685 adults conducted on behalf of the insurance company found that of the people not …

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Anonymous Coward

Heh

The joy of unintended consequences.

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Big Brother

Unintended?

I'd say it's working as intended. If it stops people reporting crimes then the crime statistics go down, the police look like they're doing a good job and by extension so do the politicians.

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Coat

Unintended?

I suppose it must have been - it obviously wasn't a Machiavellian plan to lower crime figures...

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Indeed

It might very well have been unintended, but if the pillocks who came up with this brilliant idea had bothered to consult with people with some comon-sense, this little consequence would probably have been duly noted early on and they might have thought twice about this daft idea!

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Common Sense?

You mean people who are currently trying to sell/let a property and want it to appear a better deal than it is?

Fuck 'em.

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Facepalm

Did they really not know this would happen?

People don't report crime because having it on the crime map will affect their house price? What are these researchers checking next, popes or bears?

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Trollface

Re: Did they really not know this would happen?

there is a difference between "assuming that something might/is going to happen" and "proving that it did/does happen and this is the reason behind it".

Assumption can always be ignored because there are no sold evidence to pack it up. You sometimes need those _obvious_ researches to help you counter such arguments.

either way, I don't believe any public funds were used for this research (a clear reference to an insurance company is made in the article), so nothing is being wasted!.... I think

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@Cristoph

"Did they really not know this would happen?"

Department of "that's not my department".

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Facepalm

Surprised...

Not

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Coat

As they say.....

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Oh... wait a minute.

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Anonymous Coward

Lovely

So, since the crimes aren't being reported, nothing is being done about them, they will continue and get worse. Which won't matter to the scum who've not been reporting crimes, flogged their house and gone to live somewhere less crime-ridden - except they will probably will find they've moved somewhere just as crime-ridden or worse, but they couldn't know in advance because other scum like them had been doing the same. Karmic justice in action

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Assumptions

You're rather assuming that the police will do something about the crime once it's reported. My experience is that they don't.

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Facepalm

I live in Wapping

I'm assuming I'll never going to be able to sell my house now.

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Holmes

Hot spots

Those who rent don't have a problem with falling house prices. Does that mean reporting will correlate with areas full of rentals?

Or is that a welcome correction from a world where poorer folks would just shrug and assume nothing would be done about the yobs heaving bricks at them, and where others from Mrs Bucket to Mr Meldrew would be inclined to report skateboarding kiddies in the road outside to the police?

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Sir

Shoot the little beggers with an air rifle and you'll soon see some Police action, unfortunately they're only interested in controlling the populace now, rather than helping it.

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Childcatcher

You seem to be suggesting...

that children messing about is a heinous crime to which violent assault is a reasonable response. Can I recommend Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" as a template for further social reforms?

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Devil

Hum, now there is an idea

[evil voice] Find an area you want to buy a house in, its too expensive right? Well a few crime reports will sort that out, nice, win win! [/evil voice]

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damn right

using this map we could bring the UK economy to its knees (well belly, as its already on its knees)

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Pint

Re: Sub heading. "The plods".

I thought the term 'plod' is a singular collective noun when used in reference to the constabulary? Also, If one wishes to use the definite article, then I was taught that the accepted term is 'the filth'. I'm not sure I like this "the plods" neologism, it's making a mockery of the rozzers.

Is it the weekend yet?

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Anonymous Coward

unhappy with the options? then I heartly recommend

deploying the more culturally astute moniker: "the dibbles"

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Anonymous Coward

@Symon

Or 'the fuzz' or 'the pigs'.

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Stop

really...?

That statistic looks very suspect to me. What questions did they actually ask? I suspect that most people don't even know about the website, so I'm very suspicious of anything that claims the impact is so big. However, what I can believe is that Direct Line asked something along the lines of

'Have you ever not reported a local crime? Would you avoid reporting a crime if you knew it could affect the price of your house?'

Now that sort of questioning is almost guaranteed to get a 75% 'yes' answer. And everyone knows that 75% of all statistics are made up anyway ;)

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everyone knows that 75% of all statistics are made up anyway

Oh, nonsense. It's 76.14217159231%

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Officers IQ's tested first?

Maybe the low IQ of PC plod this was a PC plod bypass plan.

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one question

Are folks not reporting cause of these maps, or is it cause they think the police don't care and or won't do any thing. Ok so thats 2 questions you get my point. I'd also like to see them do a research into underreported crimes before these maps. I'd live in a nice area of town town and yet to meet person that would not report a crime because it would affect property value, just the opposite. If you don't report crime criminals will set up shop and that will destroy your homes value .

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Headmaster

@kain preacher

Hi. Please find yourself a native English teacher. We do indeed shorten the word "because", but the resulting word (sometimes spelled "cos" or "coz") doesn't sound anything like the word "cause" which has an entirely different vowel and an entirely different meaning.

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FAIL

@nyelvmark

If you are going to be a grammar Nazi, it is helpful to at least be correct. The contraction of "because" sounds exactly like "cause" ("be-caws" and "caws"; your accent may vary).

Quite why you feel the need to attack someone for a simple typographical error beats me. None of us are perfect and fingers slip on the keys. Also, did you consider that the OP may have dyslexia and such an error may be a result of that condition? I guess you didn't.

Or has someone made you The Last True Guardian of English and not let the rest of us know?

One final point, do keep your xenophobia to yourself.

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I will

Just as soon as you pull your head out of your ass. And yes I am dyslexic .

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Meh

Hmm...

>> The contraction of "because" sounds exactly like "cause" ("be-caws" and "caws"; your accent may vary).

Well, you learn something every day, as they say. It's a big language, so I don't dispute your testimony. Most Merkins, I believe, pronounce the word "dog" with that "awe" vowel (allowing for a little wiggle-room, phonemically). Perhaps you're one of them?

The remainder of your post is best responded to with silence.

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@nyelvmark

Not even close.

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Headmaster

Sir

The only grammatical error I saw was a missing apostrophe to denote the missing letters.

Is it because..?

Is it 'cause..?

How you pronounce it is completely academic since we are talking about the written language, not the spoken. For someone with dyslexia to _only_ miss an apostrophe is an achievement, not something usually derided; except by fuckwits.

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Stop

Hmmm

Or is it that if you do claim, you can guarantee you will not only have to pay some stupid excess but suffer from vastly increased premiums for the rest of your life.

I speak from someone who got broken into, claimed for a laptop and a Wii console and is roughly paying double for my insurance now.

Just a thought.

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Dumb

The survey was about reporting crime and not about claiming from an insurance company.

If you had bothered to read past "Direct Line" you might have come across this in the article:

"nearly 75 per cent had ignored antisocial behaviour such as drug-dealing or vandalism for fear of devaluing the neighbourhood."

You can report drug-dealing and vandalism without making a claim from your insurance company.

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Thing is there is pretty much no downside to not reporting...

The chances of any Police investigation are minimal

Any sense that its a high crime area will encourage the Insurance company to put premiums up, claims are only part of the story

House prices as mentioned in the survey

Sheer waste of your time and hassle in making the report, and frsustration when dibble does nothing about it

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100% of reporters have slept with Kelly Brooks

Survey asks would. Reporters report did.

Kindof a big difference.

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Makes sense

Last time I moved I checked the crime map.

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Anonymous Coward

Title

I guess you have moved in the last 6 months.

Last time a crime was committed outside my house (vandalised my car) I reported it. I didn't give a shit about the crime maps or any devaluation of my property. I now have a nice little blob outside my house on the crime map for May. But it was worth it as they caught the bastard.

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Indeed

Of course, the other side of that fact could be that I checked the map because it was novel. Give it a few years and people won't be thinking about it when they move.

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Alert

Well...

By that point the map will just be one big dot anyway.

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FAIL

Also helps the criminals?

Find a nice crime free area that isnt receiving a lot of attention by the police and start your next wave of crime reducing your chance of getting caught :)

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Happy

Good news!

Those of us nicely settled with no intention of moving will report crimes, thus making our area artificially look bad and reducing the chances of the status quo changing!

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FAIL

Not that new really

Something similar has been going on for a while over neighbour disputes and nuisance (e.g. noise, high hedges, etc.) that are dealt with by local authorities. Getting the local authority involved leaves a paper tail that can be unearthed by a diligent solicitor and will put off potential purchasers. The result, obviously, is that people are often reluctant to tackle these issues.

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Neighbours from Hell

The same goes if you've got one of those neighbours. If you file a complaint with officialdom then you're obliged to declare it if you try to sell the house and it may adversely affect your chances of selling.

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FAIL

NIMBY in curtain twitching shocker

"We demand to know everything about crime in our area, we have a right to know everything"' the people cry. So they're told everything. "Oh no, now everyone knows about all the crime in our area". "We want non crimes like 'antisocial behaviour' treated like crimes"' so they are. "Now it looks like there are more crimes than there actually are"

You wanted transparency, you got it, caveat emptor.

Like others I'm dubious about the research. So people don't bother reporting crimes that they don't need to for insurance purposes? Shocking.

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Home Office bullshit

"In response to Direct Line's survey, the Home Office issued the following statement: "It is the crime that impacts negatively upon communities. Crime maps will allow residents to hold their local police to account for the level of crime and antisocial behaviour in their neighbourhood, pushing police to tackle crime which really affects the local community.""

And given the local plod rarely give a fuck, what's my recourse? Can I sack them? No? Not much going to change then. Surely you bring this in after the concept of electable police chiefs?

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Indeed...

"It is the crime that impacts negatively upon communities. ..."

Sound a lot like "Guns dont kill people - people kill people...."

Same self-justification for doing nothing....

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Anonymous Coward

Easy solution

Drop back to what folks did in the dark ages. Instead of reporting a crime it was solved by committing a crime that more folks would find acceptable. "Yes officer, this man's injuries are the result of his falling down. Yes, he fell repeatedly. I believe it was over there on that bloody pile of alley apples."

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FAIL

Pointless Title field

The crime map is total horseshit anyway. According to the map every month since its inception my road has attracted 25+ incidents of anti-social behaviour. I've lived there 14 years and never seen a policeman. Only once have I seen anti-social behaviour.

So I wrote to my "neighbourhood policing" team to ask why this was the case (although I suspect I know why it's the case - my road is the closest "as the crow flies" to a nearby hospital, and we are getting the stats for A&E incidents being applied to our road).

They ignored my letter completely of course. So it seems I have no recourse, and the police can continue to report incorrect stats, and screw house values with impunity.

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If the people consider the reporting the crime is worth less than potentially devaluing the house...

...Then clearly, the 'crime' wasn't worth reporting in the first place.

There once was a time when the police were set up to prevent the daily body turning up in the Thames. Just stop and think about that for a moment. A dead body. In the Thames. Every single day.

Now try and sound serious when you talk about crime rates going up. These days apparently it's a crime serious enough to warrant police intervention when kids are having fun and making noise on the street. Despite the fact that there's nowhere else for them to go. Or your birthday party has gone on til 10.05pm - which is simply intolerable!

What you have to remember is that in general, the "house price worriers" set sit in an almost eclipsical venn diagram state with the "nosy neighbours". The people who come over to tell you off because YOU haven't mown YOUR lawn, and it's making their property look messy by association.

What we have here is a win-win situation. Because the nosy neighbour set will now have to think twice before crying wolf, police resources should be stretched slightly less, kids might get an inch of breathing room, and hopefully, social attitude towards what is now considered a 'crime' may settle a little closer to the tolerant levels

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Happy

odd that you didn't mention

Reporting crimes in the U.S. via 911 has gone down drastically since it's become common practice for the police to make forced entry into the house of whoever called them "to make sure they're safe and not being held hostage or something similar". Which means...calling emergency is an absolute last resort. Look the other way? No. Shut your eyes and run...and hope to hit a building for an alibi for not reporting it.

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