back to article Glasgow cammer not thrown in slammer

A 25-year-old man has followed in the footsteps of Harrow pirate Emmanuel Nimley after being convicted of using his phone to illegally record movies in a Glasgow cinema. The conviction is said to be the first of its kind in Scotland, after Christopher Clarke of Keppochhill Road, Sighthill, pleaded guilty on 2 June to a charge …

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Holmes

no specific legislation

In spite of the fact that every time I go to the cinema, there's a bloody great big sign stating that it *is* illegal...

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In which case....

.. are the cinema owners/management making a fraudulent statement?

Does any of the Mandybill legislation cover this or was it passed full of holes you could drive a bus through?

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Paris Hilton

And your point is, if any?

There's no specific law against killing 15-and-a-half year olds, but it's still illegal.

Maybe you refer to the fact that putting up signs claiming something is illegal has no legal power in itself; the signs may or may not be correct. And in the case of filming /making a copy, they are correct.

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Yes there is

It is either murder if done with intent, causing death by dangerous driving if done with a motor vehicle, or manslaughter in all other cases.

Copying a film with your phone is copyright infringement which means they can sue for the loss of income caused by people watching the crappy cam copy rather than the original. Those damages are probably negligible. If you sell the copy for money, trading standards can take action for selling counterfeit goods. And from the two cases cited here, they can take criminal action even if you just upload it to The Pirate Bay, though it isn't considered to be a very serious offence, probably because it isn't.

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@frank ly

There has been an existing body of law (The 1988 copright Act) which covers this, however in 2003 it was amended and clarified:

"The infringement of copyright or performer's rights by making a work available to the public in the course of a business or to an extent which prejudicially affects the copyright owner becomes a criminal offense (reg. 26; new s. 107(2A) of the 1988 Act)"

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Facepalm

I'll never understand

Why people watch cam copies

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Paris Hilton

i don't get it either

what's even harder to understand is why anyone would waste 2 hours of their life watching shit like that robin hood film.

paris icon because her films are worth watching, even the cam copy knock-offs.

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As I understand it

It's a underculture thing, 'sticking it to the man' rather than artistic appreciation.

And, to be fair, much of Hollybore's output is not significantly degraded by second rate re-photoraphy. They started it.

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cam

Filmed on a phone as well? The quality must have been pish.

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@DF118

Exactly, and maybe this is the point in his sentencing - it is hardly worse than the guy watching the film then going out and blogging to his mates & the world the plot and saying its crap/good/whatever.

I don't see how some crappy phone-cammed version with tinny sound supplemented by crisps & farts is really devaluing the film by being released upon t'Internet.

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And I'll never understand

Why people even watch some of the drivel coming out today (and clearly, I am one of them)...

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Meh

Re: cam copies

It seems fitting somehow that people want to watch the mostly crap movies coming out now on a crap recording.

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Terminator

"I'll never understand ...

... why people watch cam copies."

Although losing much of the special effects etc., you do still get the plot and story-line, which is clearly the glory of contemporary Hollywood.

</sarcasm>

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Pint

@DF118

I am guessing it's the bragging rights? "Oh look I've seen [lastest Hollywood blockbuster] before you lot! Look how great I am and being able to get this!". Yeah, you and the other 500,000 people in the torrent swarm!

When you see Mums outisde schools, as they do outside my kid's school, swapping knocked off DVDs of "cams" they've downloaded or bought off the Asian lads in the pub, you start to understand why the media-corps get a little peed off and when they finally catch someone, want to make an example of them.

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Paris Hilton

Mums outisde schools

Why on earth would they want these chavs in their nice cinemas?

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FAIL

Filmed in a cinema, on a phone?!

Um, I'd be surprised if you can even tell what film you're watching. I think I'd rather pay a few quid for the DVD off Amazon.

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Boffin

How hard would it be .....

..... To project on the screen, along with the movie (obviously in light visible to the human eye), something else in infra-red visible only to camcorders?

It wouldn't spoil the cinema viewing experience, but it would definitely surprise anyone trying to watch a camcorder copy!

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Nice

I have to give you credit, that's actually a really interesting idea.

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Anonymous Coward

Title

Not very hard at all ... race you to the patent office!

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Infra-red

>To project on the screen, along with the movie (obviously in light visible to the human eye), something else in infra-red visible only to camcorders?

Wouldn't I just need to attach some kind of filter to my camera to make this plan a non-starter?

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Headmaster

Problem

This is a good idea to stop people with budget camcorders or most camera phones, but anything with a good quality optics system will have an IR filter before the CCD to kill the infra-red signal dead, leaving more signal space in the CCD for visible light.

It also wouldn't take cammers long to get an IR filter an attach it to their budget gear and this solution is then rendered ineffective.

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Facepalm

Already done and Patented

Apple has a patent on a system where an Infra-Red signal will turn off the camera on iPhones to prevent them from recording anything that a movie theater or concert promoter does not want filmed. It can also be used by the Police to prevent recording of them beating up peaceful protesters or innocent motorists who are the "wrong" color.

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Anonymous Coward

IR Filter on Phone cam?

Somehow I doubt that you could attach a IR Filter to a Phone cam.

That would stop all the occasional rephotographer who do it just because they just happen to have a chance to do it.

In the end it might result in less but uch better copies being distributed.

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A different IR

There's already an IR scheme in use: some cinemas now have IR LEDs beside or above the screen. This serves the double purpose of reducing image clarity and messing with active autofocus.

IR has the side effect of increasing the temperature of whatever it hits, though, so it degrades the experience for the viewer....

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Well, why not ask apple?

They are currently patenting just such a technology to work with the iPhone.

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Anonymous Coward

A diffferent IR

I wonder if any research has been done into the effects on the human eye of staring at an array of IR LEDS for 2 hours?

Just because you can;t see it doesn;t mean there is no damage.

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Anonymous Coward

Crimes against piracy quality!

Given the multitude of digital rips which can be obtained via various means (including the local market), why oh why would anyone want to see a mobile phone video recording of a cinema screen.

That's so 1980s.

Due to the staggered release dates, we don't actually have to wait that long in the UK. The US DVD comes out only a few weeks/months after the film is released to the UK cinemas. I don't know what they are doing in the intervening weeks/months, certainly not translating!

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Cineworld

What I don't get was why wasn't he caught sooner as in Cineworld Glasgow(Renfrew Street) the staff use night vision goggles to check if anyone is filming in the cinema.

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Anonymous Coward

re: Andy Scott

Erm, I've been going to Cineworld Glasgow (Renfrew Street) since it opened and I've never once seen a member of staff wearing night vision goggles.

To be honest though, I'm not sure most of the staff in there are qualified to use light switches, let alone night vision goggles (based on the number of films I've seen there where the movie starts off centre with the screen or with the soundtrack not in sync with the picture).

Luckily, the Braehead Odeon seems a better quality of cinema (and at least the female staff are prettier to look at!)

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Megaphone

Night vision goggles?

I wish. In my local CineWorld they don't turn the lights down enough to warrant night vision goggles. Sunglasses would be better. A real pain as it ruins any kind of dark film - I saw Alien when it was re-released a while ago, could hardly see what was going on. Seems to be worse when there is a row of steps up the centre of the seating - the lights are left on above it throughout the movie. Very annoying.

I prefer a movie in the local Odeon instead where they supply proper darkness (with floor level strip lights to show the way out). Pity it's also a bit sticky, cold, has no banked seating and you can hear the buses going past outside.

Maybe a DVD at home would be better. Waaaay cheaper too of course.

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IT Angle

'unable to secure a prison sentence"

GOOD. leave prison to violent offenders and criminals with a proven intent to do harm. jailing the dude for camming makes as much sense as jailing people for persistant noise complaints or littering.

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Eye not a camera? Brain not a recording device?

Some researchers reckon they're close to understanding how the brain stores data. If they are at some point able to extract image data from a typical lump of convoluted grey stuff, then from that point on will everyone who looks at the screen in a cinema have to be arrested for piracy?

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Some researchers reckon they're close to understanding how the brain stores data.

Citation needed.

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Holmes

Citation given:

Nyelvmark, you are required to present yourself (or your legal representative) for cross-eaxamination at the Central Court on the Twenty Third Day of September, Two Thousand and Eleven, where you shall explain your actions in photographing a cinema screen with your eyes, and subsequently on the following night during sleep, of making a permanent copy of the recoreded images in your cerebral cortex, thereby commiting a copyright infringement.

As an alternative you have the option of making a $500 on-the-spot payment, which will clear you of any further charges in relation to this matter.

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Meh

@Anteaus

no

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lol

...Not quite the type of citation I had in mind. I note that that type is (unsurprisingly) not forthcoming.

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DVD rips

It makes me laugh than the police and CPS went to the effort of even prosecuting for this when a police caution was probably enough. I have recently got back from Bali where they have full scale shops in malls selling dodgy DVD, CDs and software for under a £1 each and they come with full colour screen printed silver DVDs (so factory produced not DVD-R) and they appear to be operating legally or at least the police have been paid off to turn a blind eye to it.

I expect some customers will think the DVDs are original but when they have transformers 3 on sale it kind of give it away they aren't.

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No Caution

@mark l 2 There's no such thing as a caution in Scottish law

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Pirate

Dust

He might have just been recording the dust in the air, that floated in front of his phone.

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FAIL

Double standards

They're quick enough to stop someone using a mobile phone to record the film, but if anyone's messing with their phone (talking loudly, texting with big bright screens, not even watching the film, spoiling it for others) there's not an official to be seen.

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battery?

surely and iphone battery doesn't last long enough to record an entire movie?

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FAIL

Cam vids are rubbish anyway

I dont get why people want to watch these cam vids anyway. And they actually pay for it! In Asia they sell these knock-offs in malls, and one i saw had a poster behind him asking people to report piracy!

But on FACT, their abbreviation doesnt even make sense. How can you steal a copyright? Seems they bastardized the english language just to make a word out of their abbreviation.

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Vic
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Re: Cam vids are rubbish anyway

> How can you steal a copyright?

You can't.

But they are trying hard to conflate copyright infringement with theft so as to have a greater impact - even though it is entirely misleading.

That propaganda bit at the beginning of DVDs really winds me up. They make a big fuss about "you wouldn't steal a car" (etc.), and that's true - but copying a film is not theft as described in the Theft Act 1968, so the statement is irrelevant. They make a big deal about "piracy is a crime" - and that, too, is true. Piracy is a crime of violence on the high seas, but it has nothnig whatsoever to do with copyright infringement.

Breaching copyright is an offence, but it is not theft, nor is it piracy. It is only a crime if committed in a commercial context. But FACT et al. find it necessary to mix these ideas up into something that seems to imply - but never actually states - that copyright infringement is some sort of uber-crime that funds terrorism and leads inexorably to Class A drug abuse. The cocks.

Vic.

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Pint

erm

Hey Vic.

I don't know about the Class A drug abuse, but I can tell you that round these parts (Glasgow, where this unfortunate was caught), the people selling dodgy dvds are definitely not the kind of people you would want to fuck around with.

Whilst not quite terrorists, they are definitely organised and *most* definitely criminal. In fact, it would not be surprising to learn that, in a roundabout way, dodgy DVDs are implicated in drug abuse too, helping to fund the supply side.

Cheers,

Anon

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WTF?

"helping to fund the supply side"

Um, isn't the point of supplying drugs that generally there is plenty of profit to be made from the activity?

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Anonymous Coward

It's all about risk....

I'm guessing the sale of dodgy DVDs is seen by the criminal fraternity as the 'low risk' side of business. Like most of the bankers in the country have attempted (badly at times), a mix of high and low risk is a decent strategy....not that I'd ever put bankers in the same boat as your average criminal :P

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Childcatcher

Jail for recording a film?

Isn't that fucking sick. Steal 6 months of a guy's life just because some prick in America is down a few quid.

What kind of society is this?

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Facepalm

@Ben 45 Heard of "R5 (bootleg)" disks

From Wikipedia: In an effort to compete with movie piracy in these areas, the movie industry chose to create a new format for DVD releases that could be produced more quickly and less expensively than traditional DVD releases. R5 releases differ from normal releases in that they often lack both the image post-processing and special features that are common on DVD releases. This allows the film to be released for sale at the same time that DVD screeners are released. Since these screeners are the chief source of high-quality pre-DVD release pirated movies (in comparison to cam or telesync, mostly), this allows the movie studios to beat the pirates to market."

They were probably selling the R5 disks legally

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WTF?

What are these 'cinemas' you all speak of?

Really, todays people want to know.

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No, no, no, you don't get it.

The difference between watching it on a huge screen in high resolution, with huge speakers, and watching a PhoneCam version on your 14" monitor and pissy PC speakers is: Eighteen bucks Australian (or whatever your current rate and currency is in your town).

That's it. They only care if they don't get their cash if you watch it at home.

Once you're in the cinema, there's no backsies.

They don't care about the boofhead hairstyle of the person sitting in front is blocking your view.

You've already paid.

They don't care the moron behind you is continually comentating on the film.

You've already paid.

They don't care the idiot out the front has their cellphone going off, and answers the urgent call that one of their idiot friends bought a shocking green dress, and they need to hold an intervention for her.

Because you've already paid.

They don't care you've wasted an hour and a half of your life you're NEVER getting back.

You've already paid.

Good thing they can't stop you from telling your mates not to bother seeing it (*).

(*) Said mates will instead wait for the DVD rip and watch that. They'll still wonder if they'll ever get that hour and a half of their lives back, but let's hope their $18 in their pocket at least makes them feel a little better...

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