May wish to re-locate to Iran or China, where they will get more freedoms than at present.
One of the world's most successful poker sites, FullTiltPoker.com, has been shut down by the FBI. Back in April, the Feds arrested 11 people for falling foul of US internet gambling laws, including the three founders of the web's biggest such sites. The site itself has now been shut. Viewing from the UK shows a simple system …
May wish to re-locate to Iran or China, where they will get more freedoms than at present.
Soon it will become self-aware, and will somehow link this to the Gary McKinnon case!
Alderney?? (Channel isles, quite close to France? That Alderney? Not some hick bible-belt town that's taken the name?)
Do the former even know where the latter is???
What the FUCK do the FBI have to do with us?
For fuc*k's sake, it's time we took the FBI website down.
LulzSec, come back, all is forgiven!!!
> What the FUCK do the FBI have to do with us?
You wrote "Hard". You meant "Hardly"
Big government wants to tax online poker and the quickest way to do that is to shut down the competitors and then legalize it for government-approved parties. Shameful.
Just tried in the UK, seems to go to the site, allow download of the software, etc
Seems like the website is up, but their system is down. If you look at the "System Status" at the top of the site, it says:
We apologise but the system is currently down. Please check back later."
Someone needs to inform them that they are not the World Government.
Somebody tell me why Americans have such a hard-on for preventing gambling?
Strikes me as a bit puritanical and quaint...
The good old USA would not be doing this at all - if the money was being used to generate good old USA tax money.
Is it even legal for the FBI to tramble around the world as if they own the place?
Which country invented "Texas hold 'em"? Mexico?
Southern Comfort, Bourbon, and prohibition?
Yeah. Got the drift.
It was a rider in the Port Security Act passed through Congress/Senate to prevent overseas companies buying and running US ports.
It was added at the last minute, literally only minutes before the deadline to submit the original Bill and hence was passed before a lot of people realised what had happened.
And that's Alderney in the US of A, as opposed to Alderney in the Channel Islands?
They can simply move to any of the carribean islands, or to Moscow - what's the point ?
Online gambling is an important employer on the island.
Not for long I bet.
FBI? Helloooo.... jurisdiction?
Gambling is *not* illegal in most of the world.. only in the puritanical US. The FBI can piss off back to their own isolated island.
The island of Alderney is a British Crown Dependant, but is self governing, and has never accepted UK Parliament governance (is that a word?).
So, I'm wondering under what jurdistriction does the FBI (an US of A agency) order the takedown of a website that is perfectly legal in the country where it's hosted. Did the USA assume rule over Alderney while our backs were turned?
IMHO, at the very most, the US should only have been able to ask them to decline to accept US based clients.
"Did the USA assume rule over Alderney while our backs were turned?"
Well, it worked for them with Grenada.
Looks like there is more going on here than just letting USAians having a flutter.
Of cause if it is just about stopping the Yanks from playing then this is completely over the top.
Another victory for Freedom, Liberty, and the American Way.
What are the Yanks doing stopping me (a Brit) playing poker with British companies based in Alderney?
Why don't they just invade the place to "impose democracy" like they did in Grenada in 1983?
The 51st "state" that is Europe will do their bidding.
The US are closing down all these non-US operators, in favour of legalising and opening the market to US operators.
Even now the wheels are in motion allow poker and other forms of remote gaming, the just need to ensure their dominance in the market.
Subject to US law without their constitutional rights... Run to the hills people.
This is equivalent to the BBFC demanding a film is cut before going on release in China.
USA - please just fuck off.
The site was shut down by Alderney Gambling Control Commission based on information provided by the Feds. The AGCC found them to be in contravention of their rules and issued a suspension of their licence.
There is to be a hearing held by the AGCC in London into the charges.
The Feds didn't just wander in and pull the plug. The arrests for fraud and money laundering have been brought in New York which IS in their jurisdiction.
Not as much fun as having a rant about "bloody americans coming over here and stomping on our patch" admittedly
I AM outraged at YOUR post! HOW dare your BRING facts and reason TO this discussion?
Don't YOU know that petit NATIONALISM dressed up as CONCERN for the rights of BRITONS easily TRUMPS facts and reason? I HAVE even typed RANDOM words IN capitals to EMPHASISE my point!
You are not allowed to offer gambling to users in the US by US law; you must take sufficient measures to prevent this, otherwise directors are arrested by the FBI when they go on holiday to the states (which is probably what happened) (I suppose they could use extradition rules, but its easier to just wait for them to go to Disneyland).
Charges were probably made against said Directors, and Alderney cannot afford to get a bad reputation so the AGCC suspends the license for breaking the rules
Don't you get how wrong this is. The USA has no jurisdiction over what a company in Alderney does. The USA has jurisdiction over its citizens in its country. If the USA wants to take measures over people in the USA for visiting a foreign web site that is their right. There is no obligation for a foreign company to do anything US law stops at it borders.
I do not understand why the US government and its courts do not understand this. It is a simple concept.
You *are* allowed to offer gambling to users in the US but only if you represent US based vested interests. The law against online gambling specifically exempts horserace betting for precisely that reason.
...the site was taken down at the request of the FBI to Alderney because of suspected fraud may have sparked a bit less outrage.
But watching the mouthfrothing and hairtearing is quite fun.
The FBI didn't shut down the site. AGCC suspended their license because of allegations that they were not operating within the guidelines that the AGCC laid out themselves.
The AGCC have rules and regulations and apparently Full Tilt fell foul of them, all of which should come out in the hearings to come.
"The AGCC have rules and regulations and apparently Full Tilt fell foul of them, all of which should come out in the hearings to come."
"Hearings to come"?
An interesting concept this. We think that you may have done something wrong so just in case we'll close you down until we can get around to having a hearing to determine whether you have in fact, breached our regulations.
Innocent until proven guilty? And here was I naively thinking that the basis of natural law in most Western countries was that you actually have to be charged with an offence, taken to court and then proven to have broken the law before you are punished.
What is the world coming to.
Then of course, if you haven't breached our regulations we will fully compensate you for any losses you have incurred. Yeah, right!
No doubt I will get flamed by someone who thinks that "guilty until proven innocent" or worse, until you prove yourself innocent, is a more realistic notion.
But then Britain already has laws that do this. Off the top of my head - got a speeding ticket? Prove you weren't the driver, rather than we prove you ARE the driver.
There are probably other similarly iniquitous laws as well.
And you don't think the Americans might have put any pressure on the good burghers of Alderney? Something along the lines of investigating all the other corporations housed there?
... The FBI didn't just seize the domain using a US court order.
Can't they do www.direct.gov.uk next?
Have a read of the Calvin Ayre site (http://calvinayre.com/)
It seems a few of the online gaming companies have had serious cashflow problems since it emerged they had co-opted some small banks in the US into Money Laundering their US based customers deposits.
Since this debacle, Full Tilt have reportedly had issues honouring customer payouts and their chief exec has had homes seized in the US.
Sounds like they are going to a lot of effort to stamp on something legal everywhere else.
I had an online account with William Hill for years, using it for both horse racing and poker (I only play the freerolls), but they shut me out awhile back because my satellite broadband service was located in Germany, which suffers similar illiberality over gambling. They knew my UK address, and seemed to accept that I was not actually in Germany, but weren't willing to take the chance of having a European arrest warrant issued against them for allowing traffic apparently originating from German servers.
I have a different satellite BB provider now, with servers in Italy and the Republic of Ireland. I haven't tried to reopen the William Hill account though. There are plenty of online poker sites. The one I use now is dominated by US players (outnumbering even the Romanians).
What. Is the FBI an arm of thre Mafia, already?
we might see less fucking poker ads on the telly now.