Server makers got good news from IDC earlier this week, and now the box counters at Gartner are providing tidings of good first-quarter cheer. In the quarter ended in March, Gartner reckons that revenues from servers sold both directly by vendors and through their channel partners accounted for $12.7bn – that's an increase of a …
Numbers don't lie
1Q is a down quarter for most vendors, especially IBM who has a fiscal year matched to the calendar year, but has some very good insights into the industry. We need Unix systems and they provide a unique value proposition in reliability, virtualization technology and scalability.
Unix is growing again as "Unix collective enjoyed a 20.7 per cent revenue pop, up to $2.6bn"
IBM is the clear leader with $1.19bn. (higher with Hitachi and Groupe Bull AIX boxes)
"HP ranked number two at $639.3m."
Oracle is #3 with $610.8m, but you could claim it is $737 with Fujitsu also running Oracle Solaris.
What I find interesting is Oracle is dropping Itanium support because it is being phased out by Intel after Kittson, but won't admit that there is no 45nm, 32nm or 22nm SPARC64 chip...its at EOL two generations before Itanium.
Cheers.....Matt B. and Shish Kabbob
RE: Numbers don't lie
Well, it would be nice if your post had some numbers of interest rather then. Let's try some simple maths:
Average unit price for one of IBM's UNIX sales = $64k
Avergae unit price for one of Snoreacle's UNIX sales = $32k
Average unit price for one of hp's UNIX sales = $75k
Considering you're always yammering on about how hp's Tukzilla kit "doesn't scale" (yawn), it seems that hp are still selling more of the top-end boxes than IBM, which means hp must be still leading in the more lucrative enterprise end of the market. The high-end sales would probably also drag through more services and associated sales such as high-end storage, etc, so the high-end sales are where you want to be. The Snoreacle figure doesn't lie - half the average unit value of even IBM? - but speaks volumes. Either Larry is selling his kit out at a loss (a tactic which killed Sun) or he's just churning the Slowaris webserving base with smaller Slowaris servers, which will mean very little associated sales added in, low margins, and very little cash to re-invest in further development. How long will Larry let the Slowaris and SPARC development jaunt leach money from more profitable Snoreacle products is anyone's guess, but probably a bit longer than sensible due to his ego? But he doesn't need either for Exadata, and even Exalogic runs on x64.
"....What I find interesting is Oracle is dropping Itanium support because it is being phased out by Intel after Kittson, but won't admit that there is no 45nm, 32nm or 22nm SPARC64 chip..." So where's the IBM public roadmap with any detail about what comes after Pee8? Or any public roadmap with real and concrete details on Pee8 itself? By the (low) standard you set, that must mean AIX is dead in a few years. Allipoos, can I suggest people in glass houses....
There are more deatails about p8 than Kittson
IBM has more information on its roadmap about Power8 than Kittson, so not sure why Henrik is making comments about IBM"s roadmap.
RE: There are more deatails about p8 than Kittson
"IBM has more information on its roadmap about Power8....." IBM's non-public roadmap just has a box marked "Power8" with no details and no date. Half the customers out there are getting that and nothing else, and a few of us enterprise customers, under NDA, are getting some airy-fairy waffle with "subject to changing market conditions" after each sentence. From here, it appears nothing is decided about Pee8, which casts a big shadow of doubt over whether Pee7/7+ to Pee8 will be the usual IBM forklift upgrade complete with a new revision of AIX. On the other hand, even Wikipedia tells you Kittson will be socket- and binary-compatible with the new Tukzilla blades, meaning current kit and apps will carry over nicely, and is due around 2014/15.
re: There are more deatails about p8 than Kittson
Not publicly available. The king of public roadmaps is Oracle, but that's because they had to. Then, again because they had to, Intel has been fairly open lately on their public roadmaps. Finally IBM, because they don't have to, have a very limited public roadmap.
re: Numbers don't lie
... and neither do IBM marketing droids... d'oh!
The SPARC64 FUD is getting old. Who cares? SPARC is SPARC. Oracles roadmap is clear that there will be a high end SPARC chip to follow up SPARC64 -- who knows if it'll be SPARC64 or good ol' SPARC. It all runs Solaris with full binary compatibility.
So IBM does not have to have a public roadmap, but the other Unix vendors must have? Why? Oh, you are refering to the IBM executives that officially has said that AIX will be killed off? Ok, now I understand. That makes sense.
POWER6 was 10x more expensive than x86 gear. POWER6 was considerably faster than x86 cpus.
POWER7 is only 3x more expensive than x86 gear. POWER7 is 10% faster than the new Intel Westmere-EX, according to anandtech benches:
The next gen IvyBridge 22nm Intel cpus will be considerably faster than today. Some say 30% faster. IvyBridge will be faster than POWER7, at a fraction of the price.
Future Intel cpus are catching up on POWER very fast, and is today already able to compete with POWER. POWER8 might be the first POWER cpu to be slower than Intel x86 cpus. This means IBM have to continue to lower the price on POWER8 servers. The margin is gone. Why should IBM spend loads of money to develop a slow POWER cpu? Why not use faster and cheaper x86 cpus?
That will be point when AIX will be replaced with Linux. This will happen. IBM has said that officially. I dont see the point of developing POWER, and believe it will be killed too. Just as the "superior" IBM CELL has been killed (because of bad performance) - POWER will be killed off too.
Ergo, the reason IBM has no public roadmap is because AIX will be killed off, and probably POWER too.
But dont worry, Allison Park, you will have work in the future. When IBM kills off AIX and also probably POWER, IBM will continue to support them for at least 10 years more. So you will continue to have work too. After that, you better start to learn Linux if you want further employment.
On the other hand, Larry is committed to Solaris and SPARC. On it's niche, Niagara is much faster than x86. x86 will be faster general purpose cpu, yes. But Niagara is a niche cpu and will thrive in the niche. For general purpose, Solaris runs fine on x86. AIX does not exist on x86, and it will not be ported to x86, because IBM will stop development of AIX in the future. No point in spending money on porting AIX to x86 when AIX will be killed.
In almost every comment Kebabbert states that AIX will be killed and now he is down to making that statement 5 times in a single post.
Still no one supports his statements.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."
You IBM supporters really feel uncomfortable when I remind you what IBM executives has said about AIX, dont you? You are not too happy about that, I should shut up, right? How can you make shut up? Ask me not to post that official statement from IBM? No, it would not work. How about you IBMers mock me? Could that work? No, you are dealing with Kebabbert, and he only accepts facts and proofs.
If you want me to stop telling everyone that AIX will be killed, then it is best if you disprove it with facts and links. Then I stop. Mocking me will not work.
And by the way, have you heard that IBM has officially said that AIX will be killed? That means that POWER also will be killed. Just like IBM CELL cpu was killed - because of abysmal performance.
Wouldn't that have known first?
"Server makers got good news from IDC earlier this week, and now the box counters at Gartner are providing tidings of good first-quarter cheer."
Surely the server makers already knew this; at least the ones that saw increased sales. After all, where do the sales numbers come from if they are not from the manufacturers themselves?
re: Wouldn't that have known first?
I've always kinda wondered that myself. I think it has something to do with the resellers. The manufacturers don't always know all the details of what and when they sell, or to whom. I think the analyst numbers are heralded or dismissed by the vendors cuz it's a third party validation of what they're doing.
Also, it is well know that many vendors will put a ton of boxes in a truck and call them sold this or that quarter, when in fact they are sold in a different quarter. You can't necessarily trust the vendors numbers, as accounting rules can be manipulated.
RE: re: Wouldn't that have known first?
"....many vendors will put a ton of boxes in a truck and call them sold this or that quarter....." Channel-stuffing is actually good news for us customers. The resellers are usually the ones left carrying the can after the vendor persuades/forces them to take a lot more stock than they can sell. The result is usually the reseller has to then sell on the kit at a discount to clear it, which means good deals for their customers if the kit is suitable. The problems begin when the kit is not suitable, or is badly out-performed by the competition, then the reseller gets stuck with a ton of kit they can't shift, even at a discount. But if the vendors screw the resellers over too often the resellers simply switch to another vendor. Most resellers we deal with have selling agreements with more than two vendors to safeguard them against vendor pressure.
if you are lucky you, then as a 'normal' customer , you can actually pick up some pretty sweet deals on machines that has 'been stuffed down the channel'.
But why don't we just be a little happy that the UNIX marked has had a terrific quarter, be it AIX, HPUX or Solaris. That should be something that everyone could agree on is a good thing. Well perhaps all but kebbabbertie.
"...But why don't we just be a little happy that the UNIX marked has had a terrific quarter, be it AIX, HPUX or Solaris. That should be something that everyone could agree on is a good thing. Well perhaps all but kebbabbertie...."
I dont agree with you. I remember when next gen Itanium posts where FUDed by IBMers. "Itanium is slow and buggy, migrate now to POWER7 before it is too late", "we have migrated off Itanium to POWER7 and everything is much faster and stable" - and someone asked "how could you, the POWER7 servers are not for sale yet!".
With IBMers track record here regarding HP-UX, I doubt IBMers would be happy if HP-UX grew. Or if Solaris grew. Only AIX growth would be accepted - which would be taken as a reason to further trash talk HP-UX and Solaris.
If you IBMers stop FUD, then I stop post that "AIX will be killed, said IBM executives"
RE: @Jesper Frimann
OK, just so all us trolls can agree on something without upsetting the others, let's look for a neutral "victim" to beat up on.
So, notice how the Apple server figure is a big fat zero again?
/Shhh, fanbois don't count as real trolls 'cos real trolls don't wear turtlenecks!
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