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back to article Samsung must cough up Android prototypes to Apple

A US federal judge has handed Apple a procedural victory in its legal spat with Samsung by ordering the Korean giant to provide Cupertino's legal team with product samples and packaging for two of its tablets and three of its phones. The order grows out of Apple's lawsuit against Samsung for "slavishly" copying its iPhone and …

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Jobs Horns

Rounded Corners. It can only be a matter of time...

...before Apple starts suing civil engineers, aerospace engineers, automotive engineers, everyone really. Damn.

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WTF?

Prior Art

Maybe Apple / Samsung looked at the Rounded corners on keyboards OOOH!!!

Prior Art Anyone ???

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Stop

title

I know it's 'fashionable' to have a go at apple these days and make ridiculous claims against them;

look - apple are not suing LG, Nokia, HTC and any number of device manufacturers for 'rounded corners' they are suing Samsung for ripping off the iPhone and iPad look and feel;

Take the iphone 3gs, put it next to Samsung Galaxy S and compare; it appears Samsung really have gone out of their way to make it look just about identical;

Now same is happening with their Galaxy Tab, copying every ipad design detail, even the data/power connector looks the same as apple's; in their wisdom Samsung have chosen to copy the crippling design limitations like lack of usb, hdmi and sd card slots ...

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Anonymous Coward

Do you really think it will stop here?

"look - apple are not suing LG, Nokia, HTC and any number of device manufacturers for 'rounded corners' they are suing Samsung for ripping off the iPhone and iPad look and feel;"

If Apple wins this stupidity then they'll be after anyone else they can, I wouldn't put it past them to start suing companies who use the same shade of white as they do and that includes paint manufacturers.

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Badgers

another title

Well, we don't know if this will set any precedent, and any further action by apple is pure speculation; we're just looking at the merits of this case - did samsung rip off the design of iphone and ipad;

if you compare iphone 3gs and samsung galaxy s - objectively - you will know the answer;

now is it right for Samsung to have done so ? Why not omit the silver trims around the edge, make it a different colour etc - they could have built in any number of subtle differences but have chosen a design that's virtually a carbon copy of their competitor's

Say that you were a manufacturer of widgets of some sort, and have spent hundreds of manhours on a particular design - how would you react to another manufacturer down the road blatantly cloning everything except for your company logo ?

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Anonymous Coward

It's about the whole, not the parts

I'm surprised journalists don't understand this issue. Apple has accused Samsung of plagiarism, and the article responds, "Apple apparently want to claims ownership not only of rounded corners".

If I start a website with articles that only differ from The Register by a few words, and you accuse me of plagiarism, should we say that, "The Register apparently wants to claim ownership of the words 'procedural' and 'victory' "?

The accusation has nothing to do with discrete elements. You wouldn't be able to make *anything* without echoing something that someone has done before (including writing obviously). Accusations of plagiarism arise (and can be upheld) when it appear that someone has profited substantially from another's effort/creativity/inspiration without acknowledgement or compensation (as appropriate).

Apple's accusation is that Samsung's design brief was "copy the iPhone/iPad". It's not just a matter of corners - if you don't look closely, you can mistake one for the other. It looks like a knock-off. To my mind, that's plagiarism. But the judge will decide.

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This post has been deleted by its author

WTF?

This has to be sarcasm right?

I have a Galaxy Tab right here.. I can see, USB Cable and a SD Card slot. no HDMI though. Sure the data connector/power cable looks similar but it's practical. Start filling the devices up with sockets and you get something looking like a cheap laptop.

I've used an iPad right next to my Galaxy tab, I was comparing to see how similar they really were...

They are utterly different.

iPad is WAY bigger - like a laptop screen, Galaxy Tab fits neatly into a jacket pocket.. odd that iPad2 is smaller.

Galaxy Tab has 2 cameras.. iPad1 has none.. strange that iPad2 has a camera now..

Galaxy Tab can be used as a Cell Phone and a wifi hotspot.

The wife has a Galaxy S phone.. some friends have an iPhone.. they operate and look a little similar but Galaxy S has more buttons. As far as the icons go, the only one similar is the green phone icon.. A phone handset on a green background.. innovation incarnate.

I have a HTC Desire HD phone and it looks pretty similar to the GalaxyS in terms of Graphical style and rounded corners. They should be suing HTC too.

But basically, Samsung should be suing Apple for copying the Galaxy Tab and making the iPad2 closer to it than it's parent.

..Or they can just suck it up and get on with competing with each-other so we get awesome devices without lawyers wasting development money and stagnating the market.

Do Apple seriously want to be the only phone maker in the game? Can they handle the demand? Would they still innovate?

Mine's the one with the Galaxy Tab in the pocket... which is not to be confused with the coat with the iPad in the pocket, that belongs to Hagrid.

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Obverse/reverse?

We're not comparing features but the general look of the device, especially when advertised displaying the screen layout. You can't seriously think there are no clearcut similarities between the two. You can't make the same claim for other Android phones/slates but in this case I can see Apple's point.

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FAIL

comparison fail

If you re-read the post your commenting on, you will see the comparison is between the 3g(s) and the Galaxy S.

The video that you linked to was the iPhone4 and the Galaxy S.

Considering there are differences between the 3G(s) and the 4, then yes, the GalaxyS and the iPhone4 will not look the same.

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Jobs Horns

Apple stole the iPhone from Samsung

http://phandroid.com/2011/04/20/did-apple-really-steal-their-iphone-design-from-samsung-pot-meet-kettle/

This is from a month ago. I thought this story was long dead by now due to Apple's epic hypocrisy fail, but whutevs.

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@scarshapedstar

Yeah, cos the phandoid site will give a properly balanced view of the matter.

Particularly as the F700 was announced in Barcelona in February 2007, not at CeBit 2006 as the site alleges. Apple announced the original iPhone in January 2007.

If you read reviews still dotting about the web, most of them say "looks just like an iPhone" somewhere and the F700 wasn't *that* similar, but I have to say the Galaxy S does seem to be trying to make use of a lot of iPhone styling cues.

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Thumb Down

Missing the point

Apple says they invented rectangles, rounded corners, and icons arranged in rows.

F700 has all of these "innovations".

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Paris Hilton

so a skinny bird

Is now anorexic©® apple and Nigella Lawson is samsungesque?

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Coat

Well, she's certainly...

...a well-rounded icon...

Ulp.

Coat...

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Jobs Horns

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

Apple are rapidly declining into farce with this nonsense. They need to get over it and focus on consistenly delivering better and leading-edge product and let their competitors copy to flatter.

unfortunately, with Jobs at the center of this sort of shyte, they're rotten to the core

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Grenade

Rotten, indeed

Yes, rotten to the core, unlike the other party which just copies everything without bringing anything to the table. They're the good guys really. Yes, it's true, up is down, and stealing is flattery.

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Happy

Thanks...

"Apple are bang out of ideas, they're done, they're getting outflanked by the competition, and now all they've got is lawsuits."

I needed a good chuckle this morning.

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Flame

Re: Rotten, indeed

"Yes, rotten to the core, unlike the other party which just copies everything without bringing anything to the table."

Such ignorance! Samsung probably brings most of the hardware to the table for Apple products like the iPad, despite claims that the CPU, for instance, is an Apple "design".

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 10:37

Wait what?

Are you saying Samsung designed Apple and Intrinsity's CPU - which uses an ARM licensed Cortex A8 core and PowerVR graphics? (Intrisity is now owned by Apple btw)

Samsung may have developed the 45nm process to produce it in their fab, but the design is most certainly not theirs. They do have some of their own designs like the Exynos, but Apple's A4 and A5 is not theirs.

These days Samsung is not even supplying all the built-in RAM for at least new A5 processor, there's both Elpida and Samsung RAM out in those packages.

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FAIL

There is a saying on the Balkans

You do not slap your d*ck on the table you eat.

Apple should not forget who _MAKES_ their chipsets.

Samsung can play hardball too (and has done so in the past). "A rounded icon corner" is not the cost I would pay for losing the best flash foundry and my primary CPU maker for the gadget in question.

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Anonymous Coward

Best?

How is Samsung the best Flash foundry? Care to explain? As for primary CPU maker, well maybe not for very long... Hello TSMC.

I'd think Samsung would also think twice before scaring off their 2nd biggest customer. Can't see anyone else in the market for the crazy amounts of flash they buy. But hey might be good news for us now, cheap Samsung SSDs!

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WTF?

Rounded Corners

Surely rounded corners can be classed as prior art? Maybe Apple does not seem to realise this. To jog their memory here is a product from the early 1900's which looks similar to an iPad or an iPhone: (before Apple existed): http://www.antiques-atlas.com/dealer-stock-images/prichardantiques/as209a052b.jpg

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There is a very old example of prior art

@"Surely rounded corners can be classed as prior art"

I was thinking the same thing. A phone is basically a computer you put in your pocket. So that's basically a modern day tool you put in your pocket and the obvious prior art for that is a Pen knife.

Virtually all Pen knives (or sometimes called Pocket knives) have rounded edges, otherwise they would damage your clothes and be bloody uncomfortable to carry around. Folding knives have also been around for hundreds of years. (e.g. a Penny knife dates back over 200 years).

So it is very obvious to have rounded edges on any tool you put in your pocket. In fact its common sense to have rounded edges on anything you put in your pocket. So this legal case is madness.

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FAIL

Fuckwittery...

Is that tray in any way an icon on a or for a mobile phone operating system? Is it actually a mobile phone disguised as a tray 80 years before they were actually invented? The answers, by the way, are a resounding 'no' to both questions. You, like the other myriad ignorant trolls haven't got a fucking clue what you are talking about. Having a dig at Apple is easy as any fool can do it, admirably illustrated by your good self. The simple fact of the matter is that that Samsung haven't got a leg to stand on. The look and feel of their mobile smart devices is too similar to those of Apple to be coincidental. Prior art, by the way, doesn't mean *anything* that had been though of before. Also, trade dress isn't affected by prior art. Stop regurgitating the bollocks you read on the net without fully understanding what it means.

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Flame

Re: Fuckwittery...

"Prior art, by the way, doesn't mean *anything* that had been though of before."

Yes, that's the problem with the "intellectual property" regime: "I was first to paint a car blue, so now everybody who paints their car blue is *copying*! I am so special to think of it first! It doesn't matter if you painted your truck blue or your dog blue or your house blue, I own blue on cars! I'll also say that I own blue on all other things, though, because I call dibs!"

Thanks for giving this phenomenon a name, even though you seem to like this kind of thing.

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FAIL

RE: Re: Fuckwittery...

You are way off. Intellectual property, or as I an many others like to call "work" is valuable. If you don't value other people's efforts and work, then that's a who separate issue. Some of you think design is easy, it isn't. I've had to deal with some of the absolute horrorshows from the sort of people who put quotes around phrases like intellectual property and that clearly think that designing is a matter of launching Photoshop or knowing what AutoCAD is.

""I was first to paint a car blue, so now everybody who paints their car blue is *copying*! I am so special to think of it first! It doesn't matter if you painted your truck blue or your dog blue or your house blue, I own blue on cars! I'll also say that I own blue on all other things, though, because I call dibs!"" That's not what apple are saying at all. If you look at the Galaxy next to an iPhone (http://goo.gl/8g5Qx_) you can see just how much Samsung have ripped off Apple. Then compare the screen layouts and the icons (http://goo.gl/lzr6T). Being influenced by is one thing, Samsung have copied. They've got previous too. Anecdotally, I've heard plenty of people in phone shops saying that the Galaxy is an iPhone rip off not long after it was released. The only surprising thing about the case is that it took Apple this long to sue.

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Anonymous Coward

Comparing icons

Can I add to your comparison of icons by pointing out that Samsung slavishly copied the icon for the calculator app. Compate them side by side and you can see that Apple uses an icon that shows buttons with arithmetic functions on them, just as if you are looking at a calculator......and so does does Samsung. And they both use pictures of clocks for the clock function, and a representation of a calender for the calender function and a repesentation of a camera for the camera function.

I tell ya, its just blatent ripping off from start to finish

\sarcasm off\

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Bronze badge

Why has everyone missed this?

Surely the patent lawyers will think they'd died and gone to heaven when they realise everyone is copying someone, with the battery state indicator almost invariably at the top right...and (gasp) showing a..a..BATTERY!

</sarcasm>

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FAIL

Hmm

"Good artists copy, great artists steal" - Steve Jobs in 1996 (YouTube have a great video)repeating (should that be copying) Pablo Picasso

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Anonymous Coward

That's be absolutely bang on...

if the Galaxy range of devices were in anyway *significantly* better than any other smartphone. They aren't though are they. they're actually average-at-best when compared to the competition.

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Samsung Galaxy S 2

Enough said.

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FAIL

A rip-off...

of the iPhone 4. It's not *significantly* better either!

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: "A rip-off of the iPhone 4"

<quote>It's not *significantly* better either!</quote>

That's true - it's *MASSIVELY* better. In every way. (You can make phone calls with it for a start!)

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WTF?

hmmm

"rectangular shape, the rounded corners, the silver edges, the black face"

Sounds like the old nokia 6233 I have in the drawer here, although not many would describe it as thin.

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Re: hmmm

Sounds like my old Samsung Tocco too

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Balkan Sobranne

My grandad had a silver cigarette tin, rounded corners, lid printed black, thin enough for a jacket pocket...

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It's really true then

Apple are anticipating the downward spiral to be almost upon them and are grabbing at anything they can to stop it. When you're at the top, the only way to go is eventually down, especially when you have a visionary CEO like Jobs who is no longer well enough to take an active day to day involvement.

Shame, as I like my iPhone.

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Paris Hilton

What do they hope to gain?

Seriously. Except piss off Samsung and manage to have to pay $$$ on patents that previously no-one cared about. This seems just to be a cringeworthy case of a serious outbreak of amour-propre - "It's ours and we have this Beautiful USPTO-Signed Intellectual Property Paper to prove it". It's irrational.

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Anonymous Coward

Apple gone mad !

If Apple get their way, everyone in this world can start suing each other for even thoughts of making anything, such as dvd player/Set tp box or virtally everything, a square shaped ubiquitous box. Or even the humble wristwatch a round shape.

I dare Apple to sue the Chinese clone makers, now. And see how far they go.

Rascals.

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FAIL

end game

If you compare the two products side by side it's clear which one now has the upper hand in design,

Apple have reached another apex with their current product set and theonly one way for them is down now.

Claiming rounded corners and sixteen items on a screen? Bonkers.

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Pixels

You copied my pixels Waaa WaaaHaaaaa.....

Amazing - if they'd lifted the graphics then that it one thing, but to assert ownership over a pretty obvious shape, after all my chopping board is that shape.

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Joke

Apple

Haha, rotten to the core!

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Silver badge

I normally refrain from Apple bashing

But to have a court case based on the shape of something that can really only be one shape, is really really taking the piss.

One does have to wonder if Apple has been taken over internally by patent lawyers, has run out of ideas, or Jobs' mind is going, because some of the things they are getting up to nowadays are completely bonkers.

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Alien

Star Trek

They had 'pads' in star trek didn't they?

they were black and flat and shiny with slightly rounded corners.

apple are ridiculous and making themselves look more so.

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Happy

star trek pads

well as i recall star trek data pads from the next generation were indeed thin, and they contained rounded icons that were square or rectangular on the screen which gave access to varying information (yes i know its not real, honest). these icons were movable and programable as i recall. surely given that these props used in the show were covered by whatever copyrights are held for the show then surely the studio should be sueing apple etc for infringment of these things from the show. yes im probably wrong buts its no more rediculous than anything else thats been written!!!!

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it's not more ridiculous no...

....it's exactly the same amount of ridiculous.

although in researching pads from star trek i've discovered that they are called Padds, and they run an OS called LCARS.

here's a pic http://nigelcoldwell.co.uk/test/padd.jpg if the real world were like perry mason then a samsung lawyer would show that and it would end the case.

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Headmaster

@star trek pads

From what I recall, all of the screens on TNG were run by Apple Mac's...

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