back to article Bradley Manning accuser to meet with prosecutors

The ex-hacker who reported WikiLeaker Bradley Manning to US authorities is scheduled to meet with military prosecutors next week, Wired.com reported Tuesday. “I'm finally going to meet with the JAG officer to go over the preliminaries for the actual testimony and how they want to play out my role,” Adrian Lamo was quoted as …

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Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Here’s what the world so far doesn’t know:

1. Whether Manning will plead guilty or innocent;

2. What Manning did (if anything);

3. What the evidence proves (if anything);

4. What the damages are (if any) and who got hurt (if anyone);

5. Why he did what he did (if he did anything at all);

6. Why U.S. Marine Corps prison officials refused to let Private Manning have any confidential visits with either U.S. Congressional Representative Dennis Kucinich (Democrat, Ohio) or United Nations Human Rights Council Special Rapporteur For Torture Juan Mendez; and

7. How the long delay in levying charges — and the year of inhumane detainment without trial — affect this case.

Everyone should stop making accusations of guilt, stop declaring innocence, and stop making various assumptions until after the 7 facts above are well known and well understood.

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WTF?

Huh?

Ned who claims to be from Boston says:

"6. Why U.S. Marine Corps prison officials refused to let Private Manning have any confidential visits with either U.S. Congressional Representative Dennis Kucinich (Democrat, Ohio) or United Nations Human Rights Council Special Rapporteur For Torture Juan Mendez; and

7. How the long delay in levying charges — and the year of inhumane detainment without trial — affect this case."

Ned, you clearly don't know who or what Dennis 'the mennis' Kucinich is. (You had to have grown up in Cleveland to understand what a fscking idiot he is.)

Now put down your liberal rant and remember the following: Military Judicial system is not the same as Civilian Criminal courts.

So until you understand that little yet significant distinction, you will never understand that the US Military hasn't broken any rules or violated Manning's rights.

So before you call for everyone to stop doing anything please understand points 6 and 7 are moot.

If you're in the Military, you do not want to do anything that can smack of treason or espionage.

And yes, I'm a skinny little boy from Cleveland Ohio come to chase your beer and drink your women... (You need to be from Cleveland to understand those lyrics. :-)

PS. As to your other points.

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Happy

RE: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Ned, the idea of waiting until the trial is both sensible and salutory. However, we don't like sensible here, we prefer flaming the nitwits that insist on posting their vacuous bleatings, so I'm afriad I'm going to have to ask you to take your Killjoy sensiblities elsewhere so the rest of us can have a good laugh!

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The guy sounds like an....

...ambulance chaser.

Would YOU aid and abet a group who could have someone killed?

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What happened to...

What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

"Would YOU aid and abet a group who could have someone killed?" ....erm, right now Bradley Manning is only ACCUSED of releasing the information. It is down the prosecution to provide evidence that proves that ACCUSATION to be correct. Until that time, under U.S. Law (and the law of most countries) the guy is innocent.

So as the original commentator posted, until the trial concludes the fellow has a fundamental right to be treated like a human being and have his human rights respected.

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Or put another way ...

>> Would YOU aid and abet a group who could have someone killed?

Would you stand by and watch while people who are supposed to be the good guys go and torture and/or murder innocent civilians ?

Since earlier reports suggest Manning has stated that he could not stand idly by while US forces got up to the very same sort of unethical tricks they were supposed to be stopping, then it's reasonable to ask "who are the bad guys here ?"

Until all the facts are out in the open, then it would be sensible to leave the lynching tackle in it's box. Unfortunately, I suspect US authorities will do all they can to restrict access to facts as much as they can.

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"What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

It never existed - the correct formulation is "innocent *unless* proven guilty". It makes a big difference! :-)

To Messrs Gumby and Bryant: try all you like, you are not going to convince anyone that it is right that there is a different level of due process for people in the forces. Soldiers are people, and therefore have the same level of fundamental rights as anyone else. Torture and ill-treatment is not acceptable, regardless of what the person is accused of. Apologists for inhuman treatment treatment, such as you two, show the absolute moral poverty of the supporters of military action.

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RE: "What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

"......you are not going to convince anyone that it is right...." Dear Intractable Pothead (sic), I would suggest that I have no interest in convincing you of anything, seeing as it is much more fun to laugh at the handwringing drivel you post. Why would I want you to actually consider your position and realise your stupidity? It would only reduce the changes us readers have to mock you.

".....Soldiers are people...." Really? Usually you handwringers are screaming about them being "baby-killers" or worse. But I think you need to go look at the relevant laws - Manning was a soldier, he CHOSE to sign up and he therefore CHOSE to abide by military law. He is charged with breaking military law and can be detained and kept under military guidelines. Yes, he has rights, but those are in balance with his being a member of the military. But, just to make sure others realise how silly you are being, suicide watches with almost identical conditions exist in civillian prisons, and are enforced to keep suicidal prisoners from self-harming. Now, I assume you're all for the right of Manning to be stopped from committing suicide, right?

".....Apologists for inhuman treatment treatment, such as you two, show the absolute moral poverty of the supporters of military action." Comments like yours show how blinded by your own paranoid and groundless fear of the military you are.

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Happy

But, Matt ...

... a person cannot opt out of basic rights, old boy. No-one can say "I am less than human" without logically contradicting themselves. Due process is a basic right that any person, in or out of the military, has. Just because the military justice* system is stuck in the 18th century, it doesn't mean it is right. There is stupidity here, but it may not be from where you think it comes from.

I don't think soldiers are "baby killing" anything, but I do think that the whole military enterprise needs focussing on defence of borders, not running around the world "educating" people that the Western way is better, whilst proving the opposite by its actions.

PS - I've never used any drugs, so you are wrong about that, too!

* "Military justice" should be the correct example of a perfect self-contradictory statement,not the well-worn "military intelligence".

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WTF?

Would you

Would you aid and abet a group who DID kill someone? (see collateral murder video)

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Lamo - a publicity seeking piece of scum out of the ...

gutter who wrapped his betrayal in the flag to claim he was a hero.

Some questions:

(1) How much has he been paid or will he be paid;

(2) During this much touted Washington trip will he be advised or coached into what to say:

(3) How does he reconcile the varying accounts of what transpired between himself and Manning;

(4) Will the prosecutors try to get him to include Wikileaks in his 'disclosure'.

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Happy

RE: Lamo - a publicity seeking piece of scum out of the ...

Ah, so funny! Look how quick you can go from hero to zero in the eyes of the nutters. Old Lamo used to be the toast of the "revolutionaries", when he was "sticking it to the Man", but now he's presenting evidence he's a "turncoat"! LOL! The funny bit is Lamo probably only went to the cops because he wanted to avoid getting dragged into the mess, he's probably been living under a microscope for years.

Some answers (alright, not really answers, just poking fun at your ranting moral outrage):

"......(1) How much has he been paid or will he be paid;...." I expect he will be recompensed for expenses incurred. Does it matter? You've already predetermined that he will say whatever Uncle Sam pays him to say. Strange how you lot demand that Manning is "innocent until proven guilty", but are also happy to broadcast all types of accusations against those not on Manning's side.

".....(2) During this much touted Washington trip will he be advised or coached into what to say:...." Hey, maybe we should use the same excuse to stop Manning talking to any pesky lawyers, after all they might "coach" him! The feds have the right both to review Lamo's testimony for accuracy and to advise him on what tactics/smears the defence are likely to use against him.

"....(3) How does he reconcile the varying accounts of what transpired between himself and Manning;...." Could that be because all the "accounts" are third-hand at best, and then much-twisted and rehashed to suit the political viewpoint of the repeaters? At the end of the day, the only version that matters is the one in court.

"....(4) Will the prosecutors try to get him to include Wikileaks in his 'disclosure'." Well, if Manning was stupid enough to admit to a crime in the first place, it's highly likely he blabbed the lot and did mention Wikileaks. Either way, it's hearsay evidence unless Lamo recorded the conversations, what Unlce Sam needs is concrete evidence of file transfers and planning on Wikileaks' part (such as in those Twitter records the US was after).

/who's got the popcorn?

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I too would like popcorn.

The Matt Bryant show is back in town.

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Happy

RE: I too would like popcorn.

Maybe I should ask Julian Assange how to set up a paywall, get it out on a subscription basis, and start making some money out of Manning's misery?

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Wait until we know these 7 facts

Here’s what the world so far doesn’t know:

1. Whether Manning will plead guilty or innocent;

2. What Manning did (if anything);

3. What the evidence proves (if anything);

4. What the damages are (if any) and who got hurt (if anyone);

5. Why he did what he did (if he did anything at all);

6. Why U.S. Marine Corps prison officials refused to let Private Manning have any confidential visits with either U.S. Congressional Representative Dennis Kucinich (Democrat, Ohio) or United Nations Human Rights Council Special Rapporteur For Torture Juan Mendez; and

7. How the long delay in levying charges — and the year of inhumane detainment without trial — affect this case.

Everyone should stop making accusations of guilt, stop declaring innocence, and stop making various assumptions until after the 7 facts above are well known and well understood.

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WTF?

@Ned

Look,

Guilt or Innocence will happen when Manning faces trial.

1) Who cares what Manning pleads? If he pleads guilty, then he goes straight to sentencing. So he pleads innocent. Thus its a moot point. He could even admit his guilt and still plead innocent and have his lawyers argue an affirmative defense.

2) What Manning did? This statement should read what are the charges being levied against Manning. Your statement is a presumption of Manning's guilt.

3) What evidence? That's the nice thing. You have a trial where the evidence is shown in court. With respect to you and every other Tom, Dick and Harry, unless you're in the chain of command, JAG, etc... the odds are you won't see the evidence. Having said that... since the US Military/Government can't keep their lips shut about Seal Team 6, I guess you may have your wish, after the trial.

4) Damages? That's actually irrelevant. But don't take my word, talk to a military lawyer who might explain it to you. (Hint: Someone steals classified material and passes on to an undercover agent. Since no secrets were actually passed on to any foreign agent, one could argue no harm had been committed....)

5) What did he do? Again this is a presumption of guilt and re-iterates #2, and that's what are the charges Manning faces.

6) Dennis the Mennis, former 'boy mayor' of Cleveland, and complete nut job who tried to sue his congressional cafeteria... he has no right or business in this affair. Its a Military issue. He's not in the chain of command. (Thank God for that...)

(Oh and I doubt you'd like what I would say about the UN inspector... you do realize that Manning is a soldier and not some dissident.)

7) I suggest you consult with a military attorney on this one...

Please remember Manning is not a civilian and you can't apply civilian criminal law in a Military case.

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Anonymous Coward

Wordage

I found this an ironically apt choice of words:

"how they want to play out my role"

I think I know what he meant but......

BTW: what Ned_Flaherty said. +1

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Lamo by name.

Lamo by nature.

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Boffin

RE: Lamo by name.

In Lamo's defence, try looking at it from his viewpoint. He's probably living with the knowledge the FBI and other agencies are watching his every online move, and that some gubbermint types thought he got off too lightly for his hack of the New York Times. Then some guy contacts him, saying he's a military analyst and wants his advice on leaking secret documents? It would look like a sting to me, I'd be straight on the phone to the FBI!

It's also interesting that the same people now bashing Lamo make all kinds of excuses for hacker Gary McKinnon.

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What still pisses me off ...

... is that the whistle blower following his conscious and acting in the name of truth, justice and the rules of the Geneva Convention is charged totally out of proportion like a high profile criminal, next to mobsters and mass murderers, while the actual crimes he uncovered go without consequences.

And that the international community is not crying 'foul' over it, the whole issue has become "old news", something for which to watch from a distance how it might play out.

And what the hell is an "Ex-Hacker"? Did he get charged, served a sentence and repented for his crimes to deserve the "ex-" suffix?

But the message to the public this case sends is loud and clear: you cross us and we turn your life into a living hell, you work with us and everything can be forgiven (accept if you crossed us before).

Wheres a "Hitler" or "Stalin" icon when you need one...

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