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back to article Blighty's first touch-to-pay phone goes on sale today

Orange has won the race to get UK punters paying with a wave of the phone, launching its Barclaycard-backed Quick Tap service today on the back of MasterCard's PayPass network. As of this morning you can use a mobile phone to pay for stuff in the UK, assuming it's the right mobile phone, and you have a Barclaycard account, and …

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Anonymous Coward

How much does I. Punter pay for that tenner?

Will have to "invest" in that phone and a PAYG sim and then a barclaycard and then the cash is stuck in virtuality. But what's the bill and can I get prepaid barclaycards or even top up the balance with a (bought-with-cash) PAYG voucher? If not, why not?

If the phone's sixty quid, not counting the non-free sim and cc, that's 500 quid in payments in three months to get the investment back from the 10% kickback.

And, of course, added paper trail and therefore trackability. Fun.

Can the thing even so much as pass some amount to another such phone without lots of extra infrastructure, just phone to phone? Or did they "forget" that in the consumer satisfaction delivery model?

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 0847

Just carry cash. That's probably the easiest way of doing person-to-person.

Papertrail isn't a worry- Mastercard would always know what you were spending on your mastercard account anyway.

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Gold badge
Badgers

Oh great....

....debit card 2.0 has arrived.

First we had plastic cards. Then they put chips in plastic cards. Now the plastic card's been removed from the chips....

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Thumb Down

Just say NO!

I do hope the British public has a rush of common sense over this. Just DON'T DO IT boys & girls.

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"...now it's up to us to decide..."

Yup. I decline, thank you very much. I prefer my phones to be simple and minimally attractive, so that the impact of loss is low and the likelihood of loss is low. One of these things is the exact opposite to what I want or need.

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Pint

It'll happen. Eventually.

These sort of on device electronic wallets will become standard eventually. It just needs to be easier and simpler to pay for things than cash. And right now (and for a good few years yet), that simply isn't the case.

Cards have overtaken cheques for some time now -- but you can bet that similar conversations where had when the first debit & credit cards were coming out (lack of infrastructure -- not that much was really needed back then; lack of places you can pay; competing 'standards' in Visa, MC, AMEX, etc.) Can anyone see us going back to cheques now?

Personally, aside from paying the cleaner and for my shirts to be ironed, I'm hard pressed to think of anything I pay cash for. I sometimes feel a bit silly spending 3 quid or so on my card in the Sainsbury's Local, but I find dealing with change a hassle. Beer icon, 'cos I rarely use cash to pay for those either...

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So let me get this straight...

Did i read right when i saw that any purchase under £15 didn't require a pin? The transaction was made with nothing more than a wave of a mobile phone? So for all those little purchases, I can just pick up what I want and save a few seconds paying. As can anyone else who has my phone. So anyone who steals or borrows my phone has full access to my bank account (or however much money I charge the account with), as long as they keep each transaction to under £15. This is going to drive mobile phone crime right up.

There is a reason we still use pin codes. There is absolutely no reason why we couldn't have this kind of "wave and pay" technology in a card, except for security. Until someone invents an unstealable card / phone, some method of identity verification will be required and for now PINs are the easiest way. So with the whole "wave and pay" idea discounted, what was the appeal of this device again?

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it is on a card

it is avaliable on a card BarclayCard paypass has been around for a few years. I'd use it if I could find any shops that take it!

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Anonymous Coward

Similarities with cash in wallet?

If you lose your wallet with a fiver in it, you stand to lose a fiver

If you lose your wallet with £500 in it, you lose £500 (and were a fool for carrying that much in cash)

If you lose your new wave-to-pay phone with a fiver in it, you can lose a fiver

If you lose your new pay-to-wave phone with £500 in it, you lose £500

But gradually (in £15 transactions), and with this long "paper" trail of transactions to link the rogue who has it, and (I presume) a means of putting a bar on it once you realise it's been lost.

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 1401

Also, the systems profile spending behaviour and will automatically bar transactions if they become 'suspicious' ie: you start spending lots, quickly. Also you're asked for a PIN randomly as well.

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Limitless £15 payments

It's normal with NFC for a PIN to be needed after a number of low value payments, usually ten. So the exposure (yours or the banks) on a lost phone is £150.

That said I'd be amazed if there is mass acceptance. Orange claims that Nice in France is a success for NFC. The usage there is so low it would take a thousand years to match one day's use of Oyster in London.

Simon

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Unhappy

Meh!

Yet another way to part us from our money. Where are the innovative ways of giving US more cash?

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Anonymous Coward

Is this the angle for 'Pre-loading' ...

It's not the same as pre-paid.

This requires that you transfer money from either an Orange or Barclaycard credit card .. so potential interest to be paid depending on the card? and are there transaction charges?

Perhaps that 'pre-loaded' money is deposited to a central clearing account, part of of it ring-fenced but earning interest, some being used by investment bankers to gamble on the stockmarkets for a day. And it will continue to be, until you use it (i.e. make a withdrawl)?

Cash is fine for buying a sandwich at the station, thanks.

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