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back to article Facebook fails webmail tests

Consumer organisation Which? reckons Facebook provides one of the worst free webmail services available. Researchers looked at seven different sites, including AOL and Excite for history fans. Microsoft's Windows Live Hotmail came out in top spot with an 83 per cent score. Researchers liked its 5GB of storage space and easy …

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Facebook do email?

That's news to me.

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Gmail below Hotmail?

Really? Perhaps its an 'IT Pro vs Average User' thing

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Heart

An ITPro vs Average user thing? Yes, probably

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You are most probably right, and by and large, most ITPro users are so stuck up their own ars*s, they are incapable of seeing how things really are!

Everyone knows (except the IT fangirl) that it's the end users opinion that matters. As it is, Hotmail IS superior to Gmail - saying it isn't so, doesn't change that fact! lol... Also it would be well advised to open a new hotmail account and set it up properly like a good IT fangirl does normally and give it a try. :)

For people who laud openness and the spirit of competition, I find it perculiar to see posts that are so closed and unwilling to change - even to the extent that they will refuse point blank to give something a try that has an M$ logo stuck onto it. lol...

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Teh Title

>Microsoft's Windows Live Hotmail came out in top spot with an 83 per cent score

Stopped reading after this line....

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Anonymous Coward

Me too

I stopped reading at "It actually feels like part of the operating system"

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WTF?

What utter sh***

Being a self confessed Gmail fanboi, I must protest!

The features suggested as being good about Hotmail are all included in Gmail and more. I don't understand how they justify them as making Hotmail "better".

5GB of storage? Gmail is currently about 7GB (and counting....)

"Group messages into conversations", errrr, yeah, OK

Advertising is also, in my opinion, lesser in Gmail

Just my thoughts anyway, the whole host of contacts, calendars, tasks also adds to the mix, but most likely not reviewed by Which?

Google also recently announced that they were upping the limit places on the number of contacts you could store from 10,000 to 25,000, no idea how you could use that many though

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Coolmail

Have you used Hotmail?

I'll confess I haven't, but from what I've heard from friends who do, the refresh a few months ago (teething problems aside) was remarkably good.

Yes, they've "borrowed" features from Gmail (who borrowed them from lesser known services), but they've implemented them well (so I'm told).

I don't use either, though I have accounts with each, but I'm tempted to fire them up and have a gander.

If MS really have done something good, well done to them.

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Correction

>>> If MS really have copied something good from someone else, well done to them.

Fixed that for you.

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Re:Refresh

Hotmail is still fecking awful. I use my hotmail address as a spam box for untrusting sites now. The whole thing is one sloppy behemoth of java script that, incidentally, only works properly all the time in IE.

Hotmail is as bad as it has been for the past 5 or so years.

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Happy

Advertizing? What advertizing?

Haven't seen much of that kind of thing since I installed the adblock plus and blocksite addons on firefox.

FTR, I wouldn't use MS-anything unless it was written in my job description, so cannot comment on Hotmail.

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counting..??

and counting..?? Having an animated counter at the Gmail screen does not meaning they are actually increasing it.

Besides that, self confessed Gmail lover

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Anonymous Coward

Just proves my theory...

....that Which is the last place you should go for consumer advice on technical issues.

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FAIL

Gave up some time back

I gave up a while ago - it's often the small things that indicate they don't necessarily live on the same planet as the rest of us.

They often seem to be very careful in selecting which products to test and overlook what people are already buying.

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Happy

Which? advice on technical issues

They're quite good for inverse advice - when I bothered with Which? I'd go for the item with the lowest ease of use score ;-)

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Which should review things to *buy* - save u wasting money, not free webmail - try yourself!

"....that Which is the last place you should go for consumer advice on technical issues."

- this could be taken as a good thing or a bad thing. In the case of dixons.co.uk their marketing tagline is "the last place you want to go" - a savvy nod to the crticism they received as a high street chain but also meaning its where you will want to make your purchase - last - because you won't go to any place after doing that.

If you get 5 seperate pieces of advice on something, does the position of each determine its value, not really.

I do think this Which review wasn't a very useful review, especially given that the services are free - Which should be reviewing stuff you want to buy, i.e. help you spend your money.

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FAIL

Exactly!

Why anyone bothers to keep quoting Which? surveys is beyond me - they are the most clueless consumer organisation in the face of the planet.

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Hotmail better than gmail?

Sure, if you love spam... And hate IMAP.

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Joke

Just webmail?

Isn't Facebook a complete and total FAIL anyway?

<-- look, a joke icon. Yes. A joke.

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I'd agree with that.

I would most certainly agree with that - facebook mail has a number of things wrong with it.

1) Chat and "email" are now the same thing!!

2) Frequently Facebook doesn't tell you that you have a new message....... I find out days and days after someone sent me a message when I pop into the messaging bit looking for something and notice I have 3 or 4 messages marked in blue (unread) that I have not received any notifications for.

I don't even get a gmail message or a notification on the Android app anymore either!

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Which? run by idiots

I signed up for the trial subscription, thinking that they could help me choose a washing machine. Then I saw that they'd reviewed no more than about 12 washing machines total, all of them old models that no one sells anymore. Wow thanks for nothing.

So I had a look at their other product categories, all of them similarly hopeless. Low numbers of reviewed items, old models, shockingly low levels of detail or elaboration on any point "It's good because... our reviewer liked it" yeah whoever he is. (Considering you pay to see them, you might expect someone to put some effort in... I guess not).

So I'm not really surprised at basic misunderstandings here, such as assuming that Facebook messages are a webmail service (might as well claim that this comments section is a webmail service), or failing to grasp the reasons why people would use Hushmail.

£1 for the trial subscription, I might as well have shoved it up my ass.

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Steel hinge & catch

May I recommend a Miele. It is the only brand to my knowledge where the door release doesn't break after 12 months and require a teaspoon to open.

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Miele

Absolutely. Even people like Unilever use them for developing their washing powders as they hardly break down and are built like brick shithouses.

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Coat

Re: Which? run by Idiots

> £1 for the trial subscription, I might as well have shoved it up my ass.

Didn't you see the special report: "Which? Suppository"

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I have found...

...Indesit to be very good (just don't buy the cheapo models). Miele do have a good rep., as do Bosch.

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Agree

Love my Miele. As soon as I tried to pick the bloody thing up to get t over the threshold I knew it was better built than the rivals.

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Unhappy

Miele washing machines

Just don't put a large single item in them. Ours has just broken for the second time in two years, once on a large dust sheet and once on a sleeping bag. They turned into unbalanced loads which have knackered something or other. And because they "don't break down" there are no independent technicians. Other than that, it's great!

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+1 for indesit

They are, after all, made by Hoover, for which you'll pay another £200 for the 'hoover' logo on basically the same machine.

Even our cheapo one (about £200 or less I think) bought when our first was born is still going strong, no repairs ever needed (yet). Considering its been on at least once almost every day since we bought it (about Aug 2006) thats not bad going.

Who needs Which? when you have The Reg forum comments!

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Anonymous Coward

I would have thought

That when you pay for reviews and consumer advice, you would want it to be up to date.

Anybody can go online and get any number of reviews for a 3 year old product. It's somewhat more difficult when the product is brand new because all you get then is speculation and "reviews" from rabid fanbois who have either not seen the product at all, or who had only just finished unboxing it when they wrote the review. Not useful in my opinion. This is where a service like Which? should step in to help, but evidently, it doesn't (nor does it seem interested in doing so).

To be fair to the rabid fanbois, "unboxings" are fairly useful to answer the age old question; "is that metal, or have they just photoshoped the cheap plastic to make it look like metal". Many products boast "metal construction/case" then they wonder why you're upset to find out that it's just grey plastic that will scratch and fade the second it's observed by human eyeballs.

These are the sort of questions I want answered when I pay someone to review something. I don't really care about remedial advice and vague concepts that can be broadly applied to any product at all. It should be assumed that if the reader is planning on purchasing something, they already know what it does. Skip the foreplay and just tell us if it's good or not, and not 2 years after the fact when anybody who cares has already found out the hard way.

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Anonymous Coward

Not Hoover..

Indesit are part of the same group as Hotpoint, not Hoover. Hoover and Candy are part of a group which is an entirely different business.

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Beg y'pard

Hotpoint it is (don't know why I thought Hoover). Argument about 'add £200' still applicable though!

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WTF?

Really?

That doesn't seem quite right, how exactly is Hotmail that far ahead? Gmail offers more storage, an easier (IMO) to use interface, effective spam filters, and minimal advertising. Hotmail doesn't even support IMAP, and even adds advertisements to your emails. Does feeling like part of the operating system apply to non-windows systems?

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The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.

>Does feeling like part of the operating system apply to non-windows systems?

Pretty sure it doesn't even apply to non-IE users, let alone non-Windows users. It all still looks like a crap website to me.

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Hotmail: Unobtrustive advertising and good spam filters?

Either:

(a) Hotmail has had a serious overhaul recently and has fixed what was previously its biggest flaws by a country mile

Or:

(b) Which? Computing are shockingly underqualified.

Gmail, of course, has 7GB of storage, an easy interface, it groups into conversations by default, advertising which can be hidden with even the simplest of adblockers, better spam filtering, and it has the added advantage of not having been cripplingly useless for the past 10 years.

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Hotmail - Really?!

Really? It sucks ass for me. The JS they run for going back and forward is total pants.

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FAIL

It actually feels like part of the operating system.....

Well that would depend which operating system you were using wouldn't it!!

Typical Which

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What?

Which? Computing said: "It actually feels like part of the operating system. They also liked the way you can group messages into conversations. It said Hotmail's advertising is unobtrusive compared to rivals and it has good spam filters.

Hotmail has a horrible interface and the adverts are in the way.

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JDX
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inability to receive mail from other accounts

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!

No doubt most people will be too busy slagging MS to talk about FB, but seriously?

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Of course

Why would they want you to leave the fb ecosystem?

You have to admire their gall to call it "email".

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Anonymous Coward

Yeah, right

Hotmail _is_ a good spam filter, not _has_ a good spam filter. As long as you never bother signing in. But that's 'Which' for you. Do they do a periodical called 'Which' My Arse ?' Or is it just 'Which? Arse'

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Paris Hilton

Who knew?

FB does webmail?? I had no idea.. But why you'd want to give them any more information about your social interactions, I don't know.

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Stop

Really? Who did the research?

I like GMail but understand this is personal preference it does the grouping they mention as thats how I use it, I have got 7.5GBs of storage.

I also don't get the SPAM I do with my work testing email account (which has never been advertised and only used to bounce test our mail server). Its better than it used to be but far too many scammers get through!

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Coat

Who did the research?

No, Who is the president of China*. Which? did the research.

(Or is it When? I forget)

The one with the Little Red Book in the pocket, ta.

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all the advantages?

Like, for example, making it much easier for the Spooks to get access to your mail without you knowing? (Let's ignore Echelon for the moment ...)

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Hotmail?!

"It actually feels like part of the operating system"

Really? I'm not sure what OS which use, but I really hope I never have to experience an OS like that.

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WTF?

Which planet are Which? on?

Since when has Facebook been seen as doing webmail?

I've got several webmail accounts and I've got a Facebook account.

Facebook requires an existing email address - I've not been offered one with '@facebook' or anything similar.

Next -- 'Bloggers are highly experienced social commentators' ?

Which? has been losing its way for some time now.

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Quite a few don't seem to know...

A few people saying that facebook doesn't do email...

Yes it does. You'll have been asked to choose a page name for your http://facebook.com/whatever pages. Then you can just email whatever@facebook.com and it works,.

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Pint

OK

You fail at googling;

http://www.facebook.com/help/?faq=19031

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there is one?

Thanks for that - still won't use it.

I don't remember being told there was one available when I got a FB account. It's secondary to having a FB account rather than needing one to do anything else on FB.

Not surprising I missed it then, they don't seem to punt themselves as a major email provider.

I don't think I need to use it unless I want to pose as a clueless clicker ;-)

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Pint

mmm

To pose?

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WTF?

Hotmail wins? I don't think so!

I've had a Hotmail account for years and years, and I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread... until Gmail rolled out.

The researchers cite four quantifiable features (I don't know what to do with "it feels like part of the operating system", except perhaps shake my head in disbelief.)

- 5GB of storage. First of all, Gmail rolled out with 1.5-2GB of storage when Hotmail offered 100MB; second, as I write this my Gmail account has 7.5GB.

- Messages grouped into conversations - Gmail had this feature first, and Hotmail still doesn't do it very well. In fact, this was the first thing I loved about Gmail.

- Unobtrusive ads, my Aunt Fanny! If I turn off Adblock, Hotmail has a giant flashing column occupying the right fifth of the screen. Gmail has a single line of text at the top - which disappears from view if I scroll down to read a long message. Far less distracting, far less annoying.

- Spam filtering - I only have anecdotes, not statistics, but Gmail's filter feels much more intelligent to me. Far less spam gets through, and far less bacn gets falsely flagged as spam. I've kept my Hotmail address as my primary contact with Microsoft, and every once in a while a newsletter from MSDN will end up in the Junk folder. That always makes me smile.

As you can tell, I love me some Gmail, and Hotmail... not so much anymore. But I reserve my true scorn for Yahoo! Mail - chat-spam hell, clown vomit design, noisy ads everywhere, and still no HTTPS option after all this time. Burn in Hell, Yahooligans!

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