Samsung threatens Apple in response to patent lawsuit
Korean electronics giant Samsung has responded to Apple's patent-infringment lawsuit against them. As might be guessed, they're not happy – and they're considering legal retaliation. "Samsung will respond actively to this legal action taken against us through appropriate legal measures to protect our intellectual property," a …
What's Apple going to go after next, my Western Digital hard drive, my old Linksys routers, or even the fridge in my office? All are rounded rectangles in shape.
That about sums it up. It's getting so ridiculous that someone likely could patent a paving slab, house brick, teapot, knife, fork or spoon, and sue everyone else for infringing. Your sugar cubes are the same shape as my sugar cubes, you bastard!
I suspect antennagate wasn't a cock-up, just the only way Apple could use an aerial without risking infringing someone else's patent.
I shall go and put on some pop-corn, I think.
Just imagine if Samsung decide to take their ball and go home. What would Apple make their devices from then?
GJC
Sunshine and lollipops like they always have.
Samsung would simply just keep on selling to Foxconn, Pegatron or any of the other myriad chinese production companies that do production work for Apple.
Profit is profit... especially in Asia
Who says they intend to stop selling? There's all sorts of other things they could do; Put their prices up; Stop selling direct and the prices to Apple will go up as they have to pay the middle man's market; or they could restrict supply. Sure Apple could find an alternative supplier, but it would take time.
Remember there's nothing in law that says Samsung *have* to sell to Apple or their manufacturers.
"Remember there's nothing in law that says Samsung *have* to sell to Apple or their manufacturers."
You mean, other than existing contracts?
It's not like Apple go round to the nearest Samsung depot with a shopping trolley to pick up their parts. These guys have supply contracts. You can't break those for no good reason without serious repercussions.
I expect this to go as well as Apple's claims against Microsoft in the early 1990s pertaining to the Mac OS look-and-feel versus Windows'. The net result of which was that MS had to rename their waste basket icon from "Trash" to "Recycle Bin". There must be a better way of funneling money to needy lawyers than this.
Apple is proving as adept at generating ill will as Dubya was.
Interesting...an advertisement accompanying this article for the LG Optimus phone, which looks just like the Samsung and Apple phones. Maybe a rounded rectangle is just the natural shape for a mobile phone?
All that will come of this lawsuit is that Apple's patents will be nullified as being either too broad/general or derivative of previous works. Apple needs to learn that the way to compete is to be innovative yourselves, not to stilfe the innovation of your competitors through frivolous lawsuits.
I had a number of smartphones from Sony Ericsson, Handspring, and HTC (not branded HTC at the time). All of them looked very different to the iPhone. All of them were ergonomically a bit of a mess (vestigial keyboard on the SE P910i, I'm looking at you) with poor integration between hardware and software (anything HTC and WinMob).
Since the iPhone, pretty much every smartphone has looked like the iPhone.
Coincidence?
The screens are only made in certain shapes and, to be fair, I think Samsung will have the patents and IP for those.
No-one's going to put a rectangular screen in a square phone and phones have never had sharp corners so the rounded corner thing is mullered on prior art.
Apple are ever-increasingly comical and pathetic in equal measure. So glad they make nothing I want.
All they have to do is stop supplying Apple and they win. Apple could go to an alternative supplier but that will months to arrange and get factories ready to manufacture. In that time, no iphones to be sold, no ipads, no Apple Tvs, no macbooks as Samsung make key parts for every one of those product lines. How much will Apple lose in 2months? 4 months? Samsung might take a hit, but nowhere near as badly as Apple
Except where is Samsung going to find a customer to use their production capacity and spend $8 billion? Maybe not the brightest move.
You had me until you said Nokia :-) Is that a joke? I don't think Nokia will need any more capacity until well into next year.
As for the plethora of Android manufacturers, I think in reality we can agree there's only one other major player, HTC. Unfortunately the processors HTC uses in their phones (Qualcomm) are made in GlobalFoundries, not Samsung. I doubt Qualcomm will be willing to pass on production details to Samsung..
As for the LCD, HTC just recently moved from AMOLED to Sony's Super LCD. Again I doubt Sony will be passing on details on how to make S-LCD panels to Samsung.
It would take at least an year to design a new range of products that Samsung can manufacture. In the meantime they would just have their employes twiddling their thumbs and giving up on $8 billion.
There would also be a significant price bump since Apple would be out in the cold and any potential supplier would know that they could take Apple to the cleaners on pricing, just for the privilege of doing business with them. No deal? No products. Ouch. Shoe meet other foot.
Just last month Apple and TSMC announced foundry ties.
Apple hardly needs Samsung anymore, actually TSMC probably will give a better service long term as they have highest chip yields at the current 40nm and the resources to go down to 28nm.
You think Apple would throw this lawsuit out in the open if they didn't have the plan in place already?
Suggestion to commenters, don't let your hateboism cloud your good judgement. It just looks silly.
>Again I doubt Sony will be passing on details on how to make S-LCD panels to Samsung.
Why would they care, even AMOLED was vastly superior to S-LCD - HTC switched because Samsung couldn't manufacture enough to meet demand.
"You think Apple would throw this lawsuit out in the open if they didn't have the plan in place already?"
Yes they would. After all they say there is nothing wrong with iPhone 4 (other than you can't make a call...but hey people don't get that device to make calls....look at the games you can play on your "no phone" phone.
So ya they would.
Like the old saying "What goes around come around (sometimes twice for Apple)".
Is this the begging of the end?
As your self this, what company would want to deal with another that may take them to court?
Would you? If the answer is yes, you are an iDiot sir/madam..
Well yes I would, since it's only If I changed my products to copy the ideas my $8 bil customer had that I'd expect to get sued.
Last time I checked you can make calls on the iPhone 4, but it's pointless to tell you that seeing you have your head so far up Google's ass you can grab tonsils.
Maybe get out and try smelling reality some day.
Better tactic.
Add 0.2 cents to the price of every component sold to Apple or an Apple OEM and use the proceeds to fund their own legal costs.
Poetic justice, the best sort.
"You think Apple would throw this lawsuit out in the open if they didn't have the plan in place already?"
Yes I do, because they have a history of bringing stupid law suits. Look at the money they wasted going after Microsoft.
The whole "look and feel" thing got blown out of the water years ago. And as for patenting the shape of a phone? I don't think that passes the tests required for a valid patent. Apple had better hope that the end result of this is that only the stupid parts of that patent get annulled. It would be hilarious if the whole patent got annulled just because they were trying to sue based on the shape of the product.
You answered it yourself, Samsung cant't manufacture enough AMOLED even without Apple, since Apple doesn't use it either. So they would need to fab more normal panels.
As to which is "vastly superior" that is highly debatable. Maybe learn to take PR statements with a grain of salt and check for yourself.
You don't suppose that Apple have a contract with Samsung, with massive penalties for late deliveries do you ? It would be a foolish business that didn't protect its supply chain through legally enforceable contracts.
The best Samsung could do would be to not enter into any further contracts, but then, why would they bite the hand that feeds them?
This legal spat is a completely different issue.
I don't own any Android devices, I have (unlucky me) iPhone 4...so as you can see sonny I'm talking from experience. Now go on and have a glass of Kool-Aid, that should make you feel better.
Let's have a couple of working tablets first, eh?
See the new LG Optimus 2x dual core review on this page
- Rectangular design...check
- Rounded edges...check
- Black surround...check
Just had a look at my Wife's Motorola Defy
- Rectangular design...check
- Rounded edges...check
- Black surround...check
Anyone seen the pictures of the new HTC Leo?
- Rectangular design...check
- Rounded edges...check
- Black surround...check
Boy is Apple going to be busy spending all those revenue billions on lawyers in the next few years.
- Rectangular design...check
- Rounded edges...check
- Black surround...check
(mods: will understand if you don't want to post this one!)
The point is that "being box-like with rounded edges" is not a patentable invention.
There is a mass of manufacturers with fabs to make ARM chips with Samsung being the most prestigious.
Choice means low prices both for the consumer and Apple so maybe moving away from 'copycat Samsung' now becomes a point of principle rather than just to a 'cheap as chips' new supplier.
Ever heard the old saying "You get what you pay for?". No, look it up you know what I mean.
I'm still trying to track down an article from Personal Computer World sometime in the 80s/90s with their idea of what a future pocket PC would look like. What the came up with was a glass fronted slab, same size as an iPhone, same shape as an iPhone, same grid of icons interface as an iPhone.
I believe they even mentioned convergence with phones which would make what they did actually an iPhone!
If anyone can find this elusive article it could easily destroy Apple's claims, leaving just the trade dress issues. Given Samsung seem to have dressed up the Android interface with iPhone graphics they're screwed on that lesser charge. Would be nice to end the rest of the bullshit though.
I think there was another mistranslation, like the Samsung Tab returns statement.
Samsung actually meant to say they will "respond softly" to Apple's claims.
So sue me!
Coming from the company who stole their entire UI ethos from Xerox PARC, and who got smacked down for look-and-feel suits back in the '80s because they didn't invent it in the first place, they've got a bloody nerve.
Look, everyone and their dog knows that Apple _PAID_ Xerox PARC to licence their UI, so please stop spreading that well-beaten FUD.
As for the look-and-feel lawsuit against Microsoft, Apple did indeed lose. However, the judgement was that _COPYRIGHT_ was not the appropriate method for protecting a UI design. That is why the current lawsuit alleges infringements of _PATENTS_ and _TRADE_DRESS_.
(apologies for the _SHOUTING_ but El Reg doesn't allow bold words)
Maybe you should tell Xerox about it, what with them having sued Apple over the GUI.
And that was laughed out of court! Xerox were given pre IPO stock option in return for the tour. As for the invention of the GUI there are two names, look 'em up; Douglas Engelbart and Ivan Sutherland. While you are at it, look up "the mother of all demos" too...
And don't those Korean's look a lot like us in Cupertino too? Two arms, legs, same way of moving.... Wow! why didn't we see it before? Lets get a patent and sue the socks off them. My god, socks, they wear socks. Blatant copying! Quick, get a patent on socks and go after them..
That would be a Trade Dress violation, for sure.
I think in Korean it means give Apple that discount on the $8 billion they spend on us. Sammy would be grasping at straws to have anything to retaliate with, not to mention how a Korean vs American company lawsuit would work out in a US court.
And come on guys admit Touchwiz 3.0 has so much copied over from iOS it actually hurts. Have you looked at Samsung phones pre- and post Phone? Stop pretending they didn't actually copy anything. If what they copied amounts to being illegal or not is up to the courts to decide.
So the Samsung copies a lot of the IOS interface, so what ? The IOS in turn took a lot of ideas from previous generations, dont recall anyone suing them over that ! Have a look at some of the design elements that the original Psion (later Symbian) and Palm devices were using long before the fruity ones had thought of building a phone. Maybe that was the problem, Palm et al didnt 'patent' their ideas and so lost out. As to the 'rectangle with rounded corners' joke, that sounds exactly like the Palm III I still have lying around somewhere, which predates the iPhone by a few years.
I suppose you don't hear about lawsuits over those ideas because:
1) Apple has actually licensed the technology. You think that would show up on the news?
2) They have cross-patent agreements
I don't buy it for a second that Palm didn't patent their ideas. Palm, like any sizeable IT company, has a huge patent portfolio. Why do you think HP paid $1.2 billion for them? Just the brand name?
I find Samsung's response to Apple's suit just Magical! Dramatically Magical! I think Apple's Chip wizard's will agree with me.
Not sure if this has been posted but here's a good blow by blow analysis of Apple's lawsuit against Samsung:
http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/
also includes a link to the actual court documents (I don't get why this isn't included in most news sites)
Here is a reality check. Samsung and the other asian manufacturers copy and enhance others' designs and tech. That is the state of play. Samsung copied the iPhone shape and UI without really disguising this obvious fact.
Can APPLE dfend that in court? No idea. But given the "similarity", it seems worth a shot.
I would be pissed off if I created an iconic item, and some far eastern manufacturer just copied it too!
DD
Well,
Rectangular phone with rounded corners.....check
Black bezel.....check
full screen touch......check
Icons......check
Purchased months before the iphone was launched.....oh yes.
I'm not saying it's better than the jesus device, but sure looks close.....
LG threatening to sue Apple over it... check
However it never actually came to it. I wonder why... maybe there's the clue.
El Reg readers should be intelligent enough to figure it out. It's to do with money.
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