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back to article Assange gets appeal date

Wikileaks spokesman Julian Assange has been granted an appeal hearing against his extradition to Sweden. Assange is accused of sexual offences against two Wikileaks volunteers. He will return to court 12 July for a two day hearing, PA reports. Should this appeal fail Assange could go to the Supreme Court, the newswire said. In …

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FAIL

Rubber stamp? Its no wonder the guy is going to jail

Look, here's the simple truth.

Assange allegedly broke Swedish law.

He needs to go back and face the music and is either going to be found innocent or guilty.

His charge is of Rape as defined by Swedish law.

For his appeal to work, he would have to show that the English courts erred by misinterpreting International Law, and IMHO, the judge did not.

Whether the case in Sweden has merit is irrelevant at this time. On the face of it, the warrant is valid. Assange's legal team already raised their arguments challenging the warrant and unless they have new evidence, to challenge the legality of the warrant, they will fail.

So its not a rubber stamp, but the actual law working.

Fail because Assange is trying to play the system to avoid jail time all on his duped follower's dime.

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Coat

Ignorance?

Seems the moderator didn't like my first post.

The only troll here is someone who calls a poster a name rather than refute the facts.

Again, lets reiterate the facts:

1) Assange allegedly had sex with these women. Allegedly he didn't wrap his John Thomas in a rain coat.

2) Assange left Sweden before he could be called in for questioning and be charged.

3) During the Extradition hearing, Assange's lawyer admitted that he was in contact with the prosecution and yet was 'out of contact' with his client so that he couldn't arrange for him to come in for questioning. And that on the day that the Swedes issued an arrest warrant, Assange ditched the country. In short, Assange's lawyer admitted to obstructing justice.

4) Under Oath, during the cross examination, witnesses for the defense admitted that the defense misrepresented the evidence presented to the UK courts.

The facts of the case are that Assange is facing a valid EAW and this was determined by the lower court. The fact is that Assange has the right to appeal the decision, however the burden is now not that the EAW is valid, but that the court has erred on a procedural issue.

Arguing the facts of the case are irrelevant. The question of Assange's innocence or guilt isn't at stake but that the EAW is valid so that he can be sent back to Sweden to face the charges. Then the arguments as to his innocence or guilt are to be heard.

Does that make sense?

IMHO Assange would be better served if he quietly went back to Sweden and had his trial. But that wouldn't be Assange and he wants the PR so that he can cash in and sell his story.

Mine's the coat with the iPad2 in the pocket and an electronic copy of those books written by Wikileak insider and the NYTs reporters.

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Happy

Re; @ IMG Troll

Assange allegedly committed an offence in an EU country; he fled the country and, although his lawyer said he'd not been contacted and asked to present his client for interview, the lawyer backed down in a British court, after consulting his mobile phone's record. Oh dear, I do hope this crooked lawyer is suitably punished by his bar association, which is apparently showing much interest in the matter.

Returning to the point; given this alleged offence was committed in an EU country it therefore follows that the EU arrest warrant is an appropriate means of making this absconder return.

"Where's Scorchio today? You look very alone voicing your ignorant and incorrect opinion without him."

And you look rather silly. Are you trolling for a pat on the head?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/27/nyt_on_assange/

"After the NYT published articles based on classified documents WikiLeaks provided on the US-led war in Afghanistan, Assange was “angry that we declined to link our online coverage of the War Logs to the WikiLeaks Web site, a decision we made because we feared – rightly, as it turned out – that its trove would contain the names of low-level informants and make them Taliban targets,” Keller writes."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351927/WikiLeaks-Julian-Assange-new-book-Afghan-informants-deserve-killed.html

"Assange's apparent gung-ho attitude in an early meeting to naming U.S. informants stunned his media collaborators, the new book claimed.

The title said he told international reporters: 'Well, they're informants so, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it.' The book continues: 'There was, for a moment, silence around the table.'"

Ah yes. If Assange is indeed found guilty of rape then the US will probably have a long time to prepare their prosecution.

Pat, pat, pat.

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Happy

Re: Ignorance?

Yup, that about sums it up. Don't expect it to be understood. Some people appear genuinely to be labouring under the misapprehension that Assange's appearances in UK courts are in fact intended to establish his innocence and/or that there are ways to undermine the status of those issuing the warrant/etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. That being the case I think they probably have no clue about justice in Greater Europa. I do look forward to reading of Assange's conviction, and wonder what his followers will make of that.

iPad2? Oh I am disillusioned!

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/world/24assange.html?_r=1

"Now it is not just governments that denounce him: some of his own comrades are abandoning him for what they see as erratic and imperious behavior, and a nearly delusional grandeur unmatched by an awareness that the digital secrets he reveals can have a price in flesh and blood.

Several WikiLeaks colleagues say he alone decided to release the Afghan documents without removing the names of Afghan intelligence sources for NATO troops. “We were very, very upset with that, and with the way he spoke about it afterwards,” said Birgitta Jonsdottir, a core WikiLeaks volunteer and a member of Iceland’s Parliament. “If he could just focus on the important things he does, it would be better.” "

Ah, so that is how it is, arrogance. All part of a pattern. Doubtless the women really were 'in a tizzy'. I bet that is cited in evidence. I bet the prosecution has transcripts of all of his subsequent interviews on the matter. Holed below the waterline.

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@Scorchio!!

The ipad2 was a gift and I love it because its pretty functional for what I need.

Its a lot easier to carry an ipad than a stack of manuals and reference books.

And I can use Safari to monitor some of diagnostic web pages while in a meeting.

But I digress.

Something you wrote is pretty interesting...

"Several WikiLeaks colleagues say he alone decided to release the Afghan documents without removing the names of Afghan intelligence sources for NATO troops. “We were very, very upset with that, and with the way he spoke about it afterwards,” said Birgitta Jonsdottir, a core WikiLeaks volunteer and a member of Iceland’s Parliament. “If he could just focus on the important things he does, it would be better.” "

It now explains why Jonsdottir was on the USDoJ Investigation of Assange and one of the accounts that they wanted to subpoena.

It's clear that she is more involved than just inviting Assange to a US political function as a date and a casual supporter of Wikileaks.

It definitely explains a lot.

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Jobs Horns

Re: @Scorchio!!

It's alright mate, I'm only taking the mickey pre-weekend, being very laid back. Even the supermarket staff were amazed at the hugeness of my grin on the way back, and it seemed to cheer them up. (I'll admit that I've toyed with the idea of an iPad2) (Once or twice)

Yes, the Jonsdottir stuff is interesting and please note the other two quotes in which it is clear that Assange not only knew what he was doing when he released the names of low level Afghan informants, thereby rendering them vulnerable to Taliban 'punishment' attacks, but also sees them as deserving of such treatment:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/27/nyt_on_assange/

"After the NYT published articles based on classified documents WikiLeaks provided on the US-led war in Afghanistan, Assange was “angry that we declined to link our online coverage of the War Logs to the WikiLeaks Web site, a decision we made because we feared – rightly, as it turned out – that its trove would contain the names of low-level informants and make them Taliban targets,” Keller writes."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351927/WikiLeaks-Julian-Assange-new-book-Afghan-informants-deserve-killed.html

"Assange's apparent gung-ho attitude in an early meeting to naming U.S. informants stunned his media collaborators, the new book claimed.

The title said he told international reporters: 'Well, they're informants so, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it.' The book continues: 'There was, for a moment, silence around the table.'"

The wheels will come off the bus one day, for Jules, Jonsdottir and many others. Meanwhile, lots of herbs, spices and stuff, and it's sunny today. This ought to be a good weekend.

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Coat

Proof of the pudding...

I guess we'll see if there's anything to his accusations when he either does or does not end up as a guest of Uncle Sam. He's clearly a barmy sod, and a bit of a weasel besides, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong. Doesn't mean he's not lying through his teeth either, of course.

Time will tell, but there's one thing for certain -- I'll be chucking bags of salt around at all sides, all through his sordid little Saga.

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Anonymous Coward

Yeah, but...

I'd like to think time will tell, but you just know that the people who are Assange/Wikileaks supporters won't accept that any court could find him guilty of anything. If he is found guilty of these rape allegations, the cry will be of corrupt judges, bought by the government.

It's the whole problem with a lot (not all) of wikileaks' supporters - they see conspiracy where there isn't one to allow them to believe their world view where all governments and companies are evil and noone does anything that isn't self serving. Except for the wikileaks organisers, that is.

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Grenade

Too Funny

"don't think you're right, personally I'm a Wikileaks supporter and I think Assange probably is being stitched up, I have a major problem with him being tried in Sweden because the Swedish prosecutors have acted very strangely often breaching acceptable standards and the Swedish PM has pre-judged his case which is entirely unacceptable also."

RegisterFail just proved the OP's point.

Assange isn't being stitched up.

He's being tried in Sweden because he allegedly broke Swedish law.

Assange via his legal team avoided questioning and the potential arrest while back in Sweden. Assange via his legal team were attempting to try the case in the court of public opinion.

So please don't pretend he's innocent and give yourself too much credit.

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Boffin

@tumbleworld

Assange isn't charged in the US. They are still investigating him.

His only crime is that of rape in Sweden and that's what's on the table.

Everything else is a non issue.

Assange's own Swedish lawyers got flayed in court, pretty much admitting that he obstructed justice...

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Re: @tumbleworld

Ah, but did you notice that you were marked down for telling the truth? What matters here it would seem are fairy stories. Don't expect anyone to understand the facts, especially that bit where the Swedes have said that they will not give him up to the US, and will only let them have first go in the UK, which the US have declined. IOW Assange is it would seem destined for a Swedish holiday, not an American one. Yet. I can see the FBI/whatever standing outside the prison gates, supervising the execution of a correctly issued extradition warrant. :-)

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WTF?

The funny thing is.....

As bad as the wikileeks supporters are, the other side is equally as bad. Refusing to even conceive of the concept that the accusations are politically motivated in any way.

On one side he is totally innocent and the other he is completely guilty so far i have not seen many people who simply think that it should be all settled out without any chance of political motivation be taken into consideration.

Btw the charges are not rape exactly as in most people minds that means non consensual sex by forceful means but it is some odd thing about condoms when one was meant to have split and something about not using one when they where meant to use one.

Any articles that refute this please post them.

While there is no direct evidence that any political interference has happened there is evidence that some sort of manipulation has happened in this case that would not normally happen that is what is setting people off.

I would like for this to be settled in an unbiased court of law but sadly i don't he would get a fair trial but that's my opinion.

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Stop

Not rape?

He's accused of having sex with a woman while she was unconscious, knowing she would not have consented had she been awake. That is rape by most people's definition. It's a serious crime.

(His not wearing a condom is the main reason she'd have refused, but it's claimed she wasn't given the chance to refuse because he took advantage of her while she slept. He claims she was only half-asleep, and personally I doubt there's enough evidence to convict, but there is a case to answer and the crime would definitely be rape.)

If you want references, read the official court judgment - the one he's now appealing against.

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Thumb Up

Re: Not rape?

To which this item can be added, for the purpose of understanding Teutonic/Scandinavian attitudes toward sexual hygiene:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10983227

Those who've been minimising the matter show <cough> seminal ignorance on the matter of sexual hygiene.

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Boffin

@EvilJason

"On one side he is totally innocent and the other he is completely guilty so far i have not seen many people who simply think that it should be all settled out without any chance of political motivation be taken into consideration."

No.

On the one side you have those who believe he's innocent and this is all a 'stitch up'.

On the other you have those who believes he may have committed a crime and that its the right of the Swedes to seek his extradition so that he can face a trial. There is no presumption of innocence or guilt, just that the guy ditched the country with the help of his lawyers and obstructed justice from happening.

I really don't care if he's guilty or not. I just want the bastid to go back and face a court of law to answer the charges.

Assange puts himself above and outside the law. For a kid that's one thing. For a forty something adult? He deserves to be smacked down so he might actually grow up.

You can probably blame Mommy for screwing up the guy.

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Anonymous Coward

Please ship the guy, now

I'm sick and tired of the BS surrounding Assange, and the BS he and his cronies spout at ever opportunity.

First off, he is not being extradited to the US. It's Sweden.

Secondly, he has only himself to blame, which we know from the case documents that were leaked (who was angry about this? Ah, Assange! Talk about measuring with two measures). If he had done the decent thing it would have never mutated into a rape case. Now he has to go and asnwer some questions.

The funniest thing that can happen is that the Swedish court decides there isn't anything evil to account for as long as he takes an STD/HIV test so that those two girls get some piece of mind. I can se the headlines already: Assange .. er, what? Oh. Nothing to report. Damn.

That would be painful - finally sliding into the dark of unimportance.

Not a moment too soon.

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Err

Who is the Assange fellow?

I've never heard of him.

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Anonymous Coward

The time is now

Ship Assange off to Sweden to face trial. The extradition warrant is valid so there is no point in arguing. Grandstanding and being an arse isn't going to prevent Assange from being prosecuted.

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Boffin

common sense

Maintaining the law is not about rubber stamping and bureaucratic procedures, or playing with definitions, applying them in random or in some wildly broadened sense. Anyone who tries to opine using such arguments just doesn't know that much about how these cases can go in court.

For example extradition is not legal if a clear political element could be proven to be present. Some of the elements and characters involved sound to me like having a political agenda, although perhaps not anti-wikileaks but more pro-feminist, using the case to gain high profile attention for a larger cause.

And there's always the option for any country to oppose an extradition if they so desire to, since the treaty could be suspended in particular cases. There's a political risk involved with that of course.

And then there are the European court where can be verified if Swedish laws are upholding international European standards. And they might very well not be. In Scotland recently rape cases have been dismissed by the EU human rights laws while the reverse happens there too.

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Boffin

@John Deeb

Common sense?

You've probably seen the Harrison Ford move "The Fugitive" ? Its plot is based on the real life murder of Dr. Sam Sheppard's wife in Cleveland OH, back in the 50's.

Because Dr. Sheppard came from a prominent Cleveland family, the initial police investigation didn't turn up anything. It wasn't until a reporter from the Cleveland Plain Dealer continued to raise questions that public opinion forced the police to act and then charge Dr. Sheppard with murder.

The reason I raise this issue is to show you that there is always the chance for someone to use influence. Either to force or hinder prosecution.

There were two unrelated gun cases in Chicago, one pre McDonald vs Chicago's US Supreme Court decision and one post decision. In both cases, the prosecutors never pursued charges because they know that they could never find a jury that would convict even though the two people involved both broke the law.

Again these are cases where politics played a part in the cases.

But lets look at Assange.

The charges he faces are not politically motivated. Like a charge of Espionage.

The charges are actually on the list of charges that do not require to be compared to the charges under UK law. So under international law, if the EAW meets the requirements and its judged to be a valid EAW then Assange is off to Sweden.

To defend Assange by crying foul and saying that the rape charges are politically motivated is a moot point as far as the extradition hearings are concerned. He has to go to Sweden to fight the charges.

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FAIL

Re: common sense

"Maintaining the law is not about rubber stamping and bureaucratic procedures, or playing with definitions, applying them in random or in some wildly broadened sense. Anyone who tries to opine using such arguments just doesn't know that much about how these cases can go in court."

This is nothing to do with the properly constituted EAW warrant, in connection with an alleged offence, it being that Assange fled Sweden (and his lawyer is complicit with this [see below] and likely to hear a lot from his Bar association). The rubber stamp argument is a red herring. It has nothing to do with the matter at all; to repeat, the Swedish authorities have properly issued an EAW for Assange in connection with allegations of rape, and the case in UK courts is ONLY about whether or not the process has been carried out correctly. If it has then in law Assange must go and face the music in Sweden.

"For example extradition is not legal if a clear political element could be proven to be present."

A prime example of a non sequitur argument; it does not follow from the issuance of an EAW for an alleged crime (namely rape) that the matter is political. To be absolutely clear about this, the Swedish authorities have made it clear that they will NOT give Assange to the Americans, though they did make it clear that they would hold back on their NON political EAW case in the UK if the US wanted priority for any political case they had; the US have made it clear that their case is not properly prepared, though they are investigating.

As to the rest, it is nothing to do with trying the case, merely the issuance of a properly constituted warrant to allow the Swedish authorities to complete the investigations that Assange and his lawyer apparently frustrated; NB, Assange's lawyer had to back down, *in court*, from his claim that the Swedish police had not been in touch with him, asking for Assange to turn up for interview. I think the lawyer was until that point lying, but his bar association will doubtless determine this for themselves.

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Megaphone

@gimpy "His only crime is that of rape in Sweden..."

That sounds like an impartial pre-trial comment from a South African Public Prosecutor. (ggl>Shrien Dewani)

Besides, if the system is being gamed to get Assange to USA, why shouldn't he game it to prevent it?

Maybe Assange's personal life is being dragged into the muck, but he is one of the most honest political commentators out there, and in his brief fame has drawn enormous attention to the atrocities and brutalities and other crimes committed by some of the world's most powerful governments and organisations. Even beyond his involvement with wikileaks, he has articulated many of these ideas and highlighted massive problems in some extremely high profile places, with some very far reaching coverage.

He has done good.

Even were he to be proved guilty of rape, being a communist, a child pornographer, and a witch, it doesn't make his ideas and comments on politics wrong. I wish more people would read his various political interviews, and not let the rape accusations distract from the massive corruption that he has been highlighting.

Just remember, whether he ends up in a US basement being tortured, or a Swedish brothel blowing cash, or a London bedsit in drag, ... the big guys are still out there, and theyre still shafting you up the ass, and many other voiceless peasants too.

Assange is one of the few people that's actually been trying to address that problem. Rape or no rape, in other areas the guy's done good.

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WTF?

@AC

"Besides, if the system is being gamed to get Assange to USA, why shouldn't he game it to prevent it?"

Show one jot of evidence the system is being gamed to get Assange to the USA. Really, please do. You speak as if it is self evident, but this smacks of delusion.

If America wanted him, they would only have to ask the UK, and not charge him with a capital offence. Do you think the CIA will whisk him away in mid flight, somewhere over the North Sea?

He's already gamed the system enough, fleeing one country to avoid prosecution.

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Grenade

@AC

It's interesting in what moderators accept or reject...

But clearly this AC doesn't really read what I've posted.

Had he done so, he would have understood that in context I was referring to the fact that Assange only faces potential charges back in Sweden. Technically he has yet to be charged with any crime. Clearly if you wanted to be a grammar nazi, you would have pointed this fact out.

In reading you post you have this belief that Assange has done good. Unfortunately this viewpoint is more of a reflection on the demise of the Western educational system.

First, presenting information out of context usually does more harm than good. Assange does this not once but 3 times with respect to the US. Second Assange was too busy to vet his information, which is something that the traditional journalist is ethically bound to do. Third Assnge didn't censor his information until well after the fact and exposed sensitive information.

The bottom line is that more harm than good was done and it is unfortunate that you and others lack the necessary context to appreciate the repercussions of his actions. Manning would have been better served if he had dumped his intel into the laps of the NYT instead of Assange.

We live in a world where some idiot in Florida exercises his rights to burn a book and this insensitive act causes a riot thousands off miles away. People were killed over this. Like Assange, I doubt the 'pastor' really cared about the consequences of his actions...

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WTF?

@AC Huh?

"Even were he to be proved guilty of rape, being a communist, a child pornographer, and a witch, it doesn't make his ideas and comments on politics wrong. I wish more people would read his various political interviews, and not let the rape accusations distract from the massive corruption that he has been highlighting"

What massive corruption?

Seriously. The man doctors gun camera footage, dumps after action reports, and then diplomatic cables... What crimes have been revealed?

Show me one crime?

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: @AC

Yeah, we try not to get sued, is the thing, and we can't go through every single blurt you lot make with a finetooth legal comb. So there you go.

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Go

I don't think he's guilty

I do think he's skipped out of Sweden to avoid being charged, and should go back and face the music though. His guilt is up to the Swedish to determine.

It's hardly like he's being sent to Iran for trial. If you or I were charged with a similar offence, and considered ourselves innocent, we would simply obey the law. He seems to think he is above the law, and his mission supercedes everything else.

Go. Go now. Stop dragging it through the courts, the decision to extradite is not going to be overruled.

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Anonymous Coward

Time to face the music

Assange is headed to Sweden to face prosecution.

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