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back to article NHS to share foreigners' data with border agency

The government has said it will introduce new processes to share data about foreign nationals who have outstanding debts for NHS treatment with the UK Border Agency. The move is part of a package of measures aimed at reducing health tourism that will see those who owe the NHS more than £1,000 barred from entering the UK, from an …

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Big Brother

International health -> international charging. A good idea in *theory*

However note if someone gives a false name how would they *know*??

I'm guessing this is for people who are getting *substantial* operations done inside the NHS.

But how is this *possible* when parts of the NHS are sending people to *France* due either to waiting times or expense.

How can a foreign patient roll up and get *this* level of service?

AFAIK the NHS still only has *informal* charge back arrangements with UK private health companies. If they f**k up they dump the case at the nearest NHS hospital but only 3 of them will *pay* the NHS to fix what they can't (although no doubt this is spelled out in the contract their customers signed). BUPA remains the the odd one out.

I'd like to see how many cases *they* dumped on the NHS last year, and weather they were foreign nationals. Heads they take the punters cash, tails they f**k up and still take the punters cash.

Overall it sounds a *whole* lot more BB than big society.

And that's *provided* they don't hand over the medial records because "How will we know if they have a medical condition if we can't see *all* their medial records just-in-case".

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RE: John Smith 19

That's not the problem.

The problem is Europe will force the NHS to treat everyone as they have been already, whether they pay or not, live here or not.

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and visa versa

You can get treatment in Europe too.

It's not a matter of being forced it is what we agrred to.

To be honest I'd get across to almost any other country to avoid the NHS if I could. My cousin sat at x-ray yesterday for 7 hours waiting for a porter to pick him up. When I was in hospital abroad there was no wait as the Doctor did it. I asked him why he didn't get a porter, he said 'you're my patient'.

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FAIL

EU causes cancer, global warming and kiddy-fiddling

Fuck me! We don't just have a Daily Express reader in our midst, we have one who believes the xenophobic shit it prints.

Perhaps Tigra 07 thinks the NHS must refuse to treat someone with a highly infectious disease or life-theatening condition because they are a foreigner?

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RE: AC

No, i just don't think we should cater to every health tourist in Europe and be left with the bill when they abscond.

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FAIL

Why would anyone come to the UK to vacation on the NHS when, just ...

across the channel, is one of the best, most generous health plans around?

I speak of France, of course.

A Vietnamese friend landed a job opening up an office for a Vietnamese company in Paris. She entered France on a work permit. As a resident she is entitled to all manner of health services - far, far, superior than those in VietNam, for which she has to pay!

I am one of "those who are not ordinarily resident" in the UK but the NHS has never queried my status. Many of these 'vacationers' often use siblings identity so it will be hard for the NHS to ever get things right. Unless they use fingerprints!

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Anonymous Coward

You're forgetting this was forwarded by a politician.

They don't care if it's workable or not as long as it sounds good to the voters.

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However

The French health care system will not just treat you. They actually require you to show that you are entitled to free healthcare or can pay before they do anything. This is not the case with the NHS. We are all supposed to have an NHS entitlement card which we should be asked to show when using an NHS service.

I didn't know this until, on moving to London, my new GP issued me with one.

The NHS Delivery side doesn't feel it should police entitlement to treatment, so in the main you will be very unlikely to get asked for your NHS card. One suspects that id they did there wouldn't be a problem.

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To be fair

When my son broke his arm on holiday in France, sure they wanted to see our E111, but they started treating him while that was being dealt with. They put a splint on literally as we were walking through the door.

Within 15 mins of arriving, the xray had been done, and they were already putting the cast on.

It was a small town hospital, not especially busy, but still impressive.

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Megaphone

I will settle for better data distribution,...

I now carry 10 paper copies (business card size) of my prescription medicines and dosages, as every time I visit hospital I am asked for this information at least 6 times.

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Re: better data distribution

That sounds a lot like what is intended with the much derided SCR... I hope you weren't one of those who opted out?

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E11 card ftw

Few years back we took our first family holiday to Fuertaventura and my then 4 year old daughter slipped in the bath and split her chin open.

The hotel told us to go to the clinic over the street, they wanted 40 euro to even look at her. My GF whipped out the E11 card and said what about this?

Go to the Spanish hospital on the other side of town.

Into the taxi, get to the hospital and language barrier aside, it was without a doubt the best healthcare experience I have ever seen.

Waiting less than 5 minutes to be seen, some very neat stitching (I trained as a nurse so know a good job when I see one), a prescription for some paediatric painkillers for the little one and an appointment next day. They made follow up appointments for the rest of the holiday to check on her wound and were nothing but helpful. That and the weather had me wondering if I could wangle an in-company transfer to work out there...

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WTF?

Reality disconnect

'Health minister Anne Milton said: "The NHS has a duty to anyone whose life or long-term health is at immediate risk, but we cannot afford to become an international health service, providing free treatment for all...' She later went on to say "However, we are an international military service, providing free death and serious injury to all."

If we stopped getting involved in other people's conflicts, and concentrated on defence of the country, we wouldn't need to be making odious decisions like this. How much has been spent on the new front: cruise missiles don't come cheap, for instance. The health service could have been very adequately funded for years on the amount that has been spent in Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Libya.

It is well past time to get our priorities right.

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referee

I believe the problem with these conflicts is that we follow the Americans in every time and they start killing everything that moves.

Rather than kill the Pro-Gadaffi forces in Libya they killed people who welcomed them with open arms and looked after their crashed pilots.

Message to Americans, you're not in top gun.

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Unhappy

Where is the clear and straightforward definition of "ordinarily resident"?

The problem with this is that there is no clear definition of the term "ordinarily resident", which then means it is up to the whim of the person dealing with a patient often to make some kind of decision. Furthermore, if one disputes the decision, there is no clear way of challenging it.

I know about this because, although *I* consider myself to be ordinarily resident, (and have been so for the 57 years since birth) I was told I was not by my GP and summarily removed from routine repeat prescriptions as a result just because I had spent a few months abroad and had declined to change my schedules to fit in with the practice's own rigid stance on absolutely regular check-ups on dates of their choosing.

Given that I am diabetic, this was somewhat irritating. I continue to maintain that I am (or at least was) "ordinarily resident". However, a planned, slower relocation to another country which I wanted to discuss with my GP was prematurely forced upon me at little notice. The problem is that I went and talked to my GP about it because my illness is chronic and needed regular reviews. However, I know many people who seem to be absent from the UK for longer periods than I am who have never been challenged on this matter, and whose GPs collude in giving them multiple repeat prescriptions to cover them for many months absences.

From my reading, one can be termed to not be ordinarily resident, on a harsh interpretation of wooly, unclearly defined rules, if one is absent from the country for more than 3 months in a year.

The whole area is a mess and subject to personal interpretation to such a degree that gross inequalities in decisions can arise.

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Moan Winge Bitch

The NHS is rubbish

The Standard of Care is rubbish

To those wingers, piss off then.

Think about it, we have universal health care, you get sick, you get treated.

No worries about bills, no worries about your insurance running out. This NHS whether you have a bad experience or not, is one of the most envied in the world.

Most other countries may have free health care, but not many of them are full universal. Alot of the Free Health Care is only free up to a certain amount after that dip your hand in your own pockets

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Big Brother

One up vote, one down vote

That sort of sums up my view on this.

But the phrases "data sharing" and "Borders Agency" definitely red flag this as more creeping database state than improving use of scarce resources to me.

I think my view it's more BB stands.

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