The Pentagon has asked for an investigation into threats made by the Anonymous hacking collective against officials at Quantico, the Marine brig that is holding accused WikiLeaker Pfc. Bradley Manning. The probe was requested following news reports that members of Anonymous were discussing ways to avenge the 23-year-old Manning …
of course he is being punished
They can dress it up anyway they like, he is being tortured. They think he passed the info on an so he is being help up as an example. Anyone who wants to exposing anything in the future is going to have to decide if they want to run the risk of ending up like him. Which actually less frightrning than the alternative because if some of the most powerful people in the world came up with a system that will obivously drive someone to a breakdown in order to 'protect' him then we're all in serious trouble.
As a (retired) senior consultant in psychiatry
who spent a great deal of his professional life treating forensic patients, I can only agree with Anonymous Coward's description above of the treatment of Mr Manning as «torture», designed to ensure a mental breakdown before he is brought to trial within what is called «the military justice system». «Requesting» an investigation (I hope I may be pardoned for suspecting that an investigation has been going on long before one was «requested») into an alleged documentation campaign against two employees of the US «Defense» (read «War») Department is a transparent attempt to turn (two of) the perpetrators of this ongoing and most deliberate violation of human rights into «victims» of that great Pentagon bugaboo - «asymmetric warfare». Would that the warfare between Anonymous and the Pentagon were a bit more symmetric and that the former possessed a fraction of the resources vouchsafed the latter !...
Barack Obama to visit the UK in May
"US President Barack Obama is to make a state visit to the UK in May after accepting an invitation from the Queen, Buckingham Palace announced." (The Independent Feb 17th )
I think we all need to show our support for Manning when Mr Obama comes to tea. Possibly pointing out that if people hadn't shown the courage to break the law then America would still be a colony.
Absolutely Manning doesn't deserve being in the brig!
Manning's intentional leak of classified documents uncovered troves of illegal and illicit activities being committed by the US Government.
Abu Ghraib prison. Yes sir! That was a biggie where the US service men and women got out of control. Forcing Iraqi prisoners to strip naked in front of women soldiers.
(Ooops! My bad, it was an actual insider who blew that one open.)
Then there were the mass graves in Iraq of a bunch of detainees who were tortured and then killed.
(Ooops! My Bad again. These were the mass graves that the US and other Occupying forces found outside of Baghdad where Saddam and his sons tortured innocent civilians.)
Footage from a gunship camera which was then edited and called collateral murder when in fact the helicopter crew were following RoE?
(Ok! He allegedly did that.)
Oh and there's more ... stories of real war crimes that US troops did commit and were tried for... but none of that was due to wikileaks....
Well gosh, when you start to go down the list of what is happening and what Manning allegedly stole and pushed out to Wikileaks, no real whistle blowing. Just some dumbshit who got suckered in to the hype of ASSange and got caught bragging online in some hacker forum.
So he sits in the brig. Guess what. That's what happens when you break Military Law. Military Justice is harsher than civilian justice. Do you really need a lecture on why that is?
You know you have the right to protest anything your heart desires.
Heck we have a bunch of nutters who stand outside of military funerals with signs that say "God hates Fags" and stuff that makes no sense. And yes the Supreme Court allows it. This is the same justice system that you want to protest BTW...
But to equate what Manning did with the protests against daft Brit laws and excessive and improper taxes to fund a luxurious lifestyle? Sorry. Manning is no Patriot.
At least Benedict Arnold saw the potential of profit when he tried to commit espionage.
what an enlightened view
Not what one expects from a country with serious form when it comes to human rights abuse, violation of international treatise, support of rogue states.
You'll be telling me that they slaughter their own children next... oh hang on a second, i thought that was just places like china and iran??? surely not the land of the free?
You're not making a great case for Uncle Sam there buddy.
So - given that your point is that Manning's leak doesn't amount to much - how come he deserves all the attention the US government are lavishing upon him?
Surely not just because he broke "wooh scary, scary" military law? Lots of people break "wooh scary, scary" military law and we hear bupkiss about it.
So either the effort USGov are expending on this trial is a waste of taxpayer's money or it isn't.
If it's not then your point is incorrect;
If it is then your point is correct but you need to have a word with your government about their unnecessary expenditure on this matter and maybe read them the Constitution - that thing you trumpet abroad as the guarantor of all kinds of freedoms but that don't seem to get observed in a great deal at home and is therefore actually a guarantee of fuck-all.
"So he sits in the brig. Guess what. That's what happens when you break Military Law. Military Justice is harsher than civilian justice. Do you really need a lecture on why that is?"
So, they get attacked by Anonymous. Guess what? That's what happens when you go against massive public opinion. Public opinion is more powerful that military/government regulations. Do you really need a lecture on why that is?
Re: Absolutely Manning doesn't deserve being in the brig!
"So he sits in the brig. Guess what. That's what happens when you break Military Law. Military Justice is harsher than civilian justice. Do you really need a lecture on why that is?"
I imagine you feel like quite the hard man when cheerleading for the use of overwhelming force, including torture, by a instrument of government against an individual. But in fact you're just a coward. And that's what the rest of the world sees in America these days.
"daft Brit laws and excessive and improper taxes to fund a luxurious lifestyle?"
Factually incorrect - the American colonies paid bugger all tax and the British _really_ needed that money coz of their constant warring with the French, both in Europe and in the Americas.
Title req... ran out of interest...
"I imagine you feel like quite the hard man when cheerleading for the use of overwhelming force, including torture, by a instrument of government against an individual. But in fact you're just a coward. And that's what the rest of the world sees in America these days"
Actually it's what a fair few of us see in people who have to hide their support for a bunch of criminals... people like you.
"So, they get attacked by Anonymous. Guess what? That's what happens when you go against massive public opinion. Public opinion is more powerful that military/government regulations. Do you really need a lecture on why that is?
Really ? When precisely did Anonymous gain any right to claim they're representing public opinion ? From where I'm sitting they're only interested in their own opinions, and don't give a fuck about how many people believe they're just a bunch of fuckwits.
I wonder what happens when you chose to go against people who have the ability capability, that allow them to send around men in black helicopters armed with machine guns, they after all muct also be entitled to ignore the laws and do whatever the fuck they like. Wouldn't you agree ?
how the black choppers gonna find 'em when the sat nav has been pwned?
tip for the future:
don't bring a knife to a gunfight, people will point and laugh (just look at us all a-pointin and a-laughing)
Torture - there are several types
1. Punitive .........[extralegal sentence]
2. Coercive .......[to confess, recant, betray]
3. Preemptive ....[of thought outside permitted bounds]
4. Exemplary .....[discouragement of potential followers]
5. Scientific .......[when Reichsbildung is serious business]
6. Sadistic ........[pure low-brow fun]
... but whatever the immediate motivation, when performed systematically for reasons of state, the first four factors predominate as part of a violent control system.
In a morally decayed proxy-Empire which boasts of water-boarding someone 183 times in a month (== once every 4hrs, with each session lasting probably 3.75) and videotaping the whole series for later private psychostroking, only the politically purblind refuse to see that #2 is highly significant, and the confession extracted will serve its purpose irregardless of whether it is in fact true or false.
Given the circumstance of the Pentagonvernment's vengeful hardon to destroy WikiLeaks by any means necessary, it is patently obvious that the maltreatment being meted out to Manning is mainly designed to force him to 'grass-up' Julian Assange on a conspiracy charge, thus enabling the extradition of a vanguard Resistance leader by a willing vassal state [Britain, Sweden or Australia] to a certainly nasty doom.
It is a great credit to the character of Manning (the latter-day Vanunu) that he is resisting this rotten scheme at great personal cost and urgently incumbent upon those who value human- above apparatus-rights to ensure he is soon relieved or at least his martyrdom not be wasted.
I am Spartacus!
 As Hitler immortalised the agonies of July 20th 1944 conspirators, strung up on piano-wire in meat bunkers while he nursed a perforated eardrum.
 As in the case of Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, rendered to Egypt by CIA in 2002 and tortured until he 'confessed' the fantasy WMD connections between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein, which his tormentors used, amongst other assorted lies and forgeries, to 'justify' the war-crime of aggression against Iraq. [ http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/04/29/even-in-cheneys-bleak-world-the-al-qaeda-iraq-torture-story-is-a-new-low/ ] After a restful spell in Gitmo, he was repatriated and murdered by 'suicide' in 2009 in a Libyan jail cell by the collaborateur Gaddafi as a personal favour to GWB, within days of being 'discovered' by Human Rights Watch.
@AC Posted Wednesday 9th March 2011 14:03 GMT
"So, they get attacked by Anonymous. Guess what? That's what happens when you go against massive public opinion. Public opinion is more powerful that military/government regulations. Do you really need a lecture on why that is?"
So public opinion says its ok to launch a cyber attack on the US government as a form of protest?
I think not.
Public opinion condemns illegal acts.
You have the right to register a march or a protest and then protest non-violently. (Hmmm. Anonymous showing up en-mass with masks on to protest a rally for something or other? Yup. That is legal and I do support that.)
But causing a riot, looting, and destroying property is not legal and I frown on that.
Grow up junior.
Manning screwed himself. I actually feel sorry for him because he was duped by Assange who left him out to dry.
Only the rich can afford to wage war. And of course you have to ask yourself why the English were fighting the French in the first place... (Rape the third world nations so you can live like a 'king' back in the UK...)
@AC Posted Wednesday 9th March 2011 14:03 GMT
First Manning isn't being tortured.
'Bennington School for Boys' does more to their incoming 'freshmen' than Manning is undergoing right now. (And these 'freshmen' are all volunteers...)
There are prisons/jails in third world countries that have worse conditions. Does that mean that their governments are 'torturing' them?
Manning is/was on suicide watch.
There's a reason for that.
As I pointed out, you'd be the first one to scream bloody murder if he did actually commit suicide.
Of course the reason you're crying about him is because of comments made by the defense team. That means you only heard 1/2 of the story.
Its comforting to see that you have knowledge on how the rest of the world sees America.
It just shows that you don't understand shite.
Americans never lived liek kings did they?
America were not raping the third world countries at the time in any way. I mean, Americans shipping hundreds of thousands of slaves to the US so their owners could live like kings on plantations doesn't count, right?
RE: @AC Posted Wednesday 9th March 2011 14:03 GMT
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly, I have to point out the futility of presenting an argument based on logic to those too obsessed with being fashionaly outraged. As with most things fashion, logic and reason play very little part in any considerations. I find it much more rewarding just to let them froth on and then laugh at their rantings.
"Not for punitive reasons"
"Not for punitive reasons". A likely story. They must think everyone else in this world is as stupid as they obviously are. Stands out a mile. They're so desperate to make an example of this guy, they'll make his life a misery until he comes to trial.
This title is naked and sleep deprived for its own protection
Pfft. They don't need to bring him to trial now - if he wasn't guilty, they wouldn't be doing nasty things to him. It works just like Guantanamo.
Or until they 'mess up' his suicide watch and he tops himself. Not that the conditions and treatment he's getting would be, in any way, contributory to the act (M'Lud).
You do understand the alternative right?
What happens if Manning is found hung in his cell?
You would be the first to scream that it was a cover up by the establishment.
That Manning was killed as revenge.
Then there would be the obligatory wrongful death lawsuit that the US should have put him on suicide watch to prevent his suicide.
And you have to wonder if Manning is suicidal?
Probably, and possibly true.
Manning is a dupe. You want to blame someone, blame Assange.
Everything has value and a price.
What Manning dumped had little value and a high price for Manning to pay.
He's sitting in the cell, not Assange.
If you think for one minute that Manning wasn't played by someone and coerced in to allegedly stealing those documents... you're a bigger fool than Manning.
Manning just tossed any chance at a normal life out the window... and for what? Really?
If that doesn't make you suicidal then you're lying to yourself.
And if you don't think Manning isn't suicidal, then anything the US Military is doing to him, should be a cake walk.
Cruel? check, Unusual? check
We all now know how PFC Manning sleeps at night.
Question is, how do his guards manage it?
Well, you know ...
... they are just following orders.
Unfortunately, it is too much to hope that we'll see a repeat of the trials that made that defence worthless.
they have god on their side.
people agin them are agin god, and there fore have no rights
hell they dont even have real feelings like us proper people.
y' know what, we need to monitor these types -
make em wear some kind of symbol on the clothes.
make em live in strictly controlled parts of town
take their possesions away
even better, lets build some camps to keep them in, we'll need good rail links, close to a town for guards, but not too close, on account of the smoke from the chimneys.
having been a lifelong athiest im starting to really really hope i'm wrong about that. cos their god is a vengefull bastard, and what they are doing to manning, he'll do worse to them. from now til the end of time.
"they have god on their side....." Last time I checked I saw that the US was a secular society with many religions. Indeed, the last time I went there on business I was workig with two American Hindus, a Muslim emigre from Bangalore, a Japanese-Amercian Christian, and several ordinary Americans with no propensity for Bible-thumping or forcing their views on anyone. We all got along fine and non-one killed anyone or dissed anyone else's religion, but then we're probably just a lot more grown up than you.
".....make em wear some kind of symbol on the clothes....." I find the fashionably morally outraged are usually quite easy to spot, both by the narrow selection of like-minded sheeple they herd around with, and their propensity for shrieking without thinking. No symbol needed.
"......make em live in strictly controlled parts of town...." We already do, they're called NUS bars. If they graduate and gain employment, they can usually be found in winebars or street cafes, desperately trying to be hip.
"....having been a lifelong athiest...." Really? You seem to imply that all religious people are suckers, and yet you come across as such a convert to the Church of St Julian it's hard not to laugh at your self-delusion!
I know that some sports are accident prone, but I find it hard to believe that anybody could kill himself with exercising. How they rationalice the ban on exercising is beyond my imagination.
Also if they are afraid he will kill himself with papercuts they could glue a kindle to a wall, with extra thick glass. Just add buttons for forward and backward page turns.
But this is moot as the treatment clearly is motivated to be punitive. I bet if he confessed his treatment would change a lot, and hes been made to understand this without spelling it out, as that would be illegal.
RE: No exorcise?
"......I bet if he confessed his treatment would change a lot...." You really should try keeping up with the news, rather than just doin the reflexive ranting thing. Manning has already admitted his part in the proceedings, what is probably making him suicicdal is the realisation that he has screwed up his life for very little gain, having been led up the garden path by Assnut.
I like your optimism that Bradley Manning will ever be tried for these allegations but I highly doubt it. After they have reduced him to an empty shell of his former self, maybe give it a couple more years, they will turn around and say 'Oh, well we never had any evidence to take this to trial so we'll just let him go'.
Dismissed from the army after years in solitary confinement. The American government makes me sick. Not that the one in the UK is much better
Re: What trial?
Under the spreading chestnut tree
I sold you and you sold me
This disgusting treatment must stop IMMEDIATELY
What they are doing to Bradley Manning is beyond reprehensible, he would suffer much less if they just put a bullet through his head, last July.
Forgive me for strong language El Reg, but they are being complete cunts.
I'd like to remind everyone who is as disgusted and outraged as I am to:
1. Follow the superb Glenn Greenwald on Twitter (@ggreenwald)
2. Watch the Colbert Report show where Stephen Colbert does an EXCELLENT narrative of the HBGary events. The actual episode is called 'The.Colbert.Report.2011.02.24.Glenn.Greenwald-Mike.Huckabee' (UK folks will have to get it from Bit Torrent as ColbertNation.com won't show videos to Brits, for Copyright reasons)
The facts don't lie
They have documented that Manning downloaded and disseminated secret docs. He knows he's going to die or spend the rest of his life in prison. He's probably tried to commit suicide which is why they remove his clothes at night. This is normal procedure in suicide cases.
As far as anonomous is concerned, they may end up in prison too like any other criminal.
"Criminal" in these cases ...
... is what public opinion says it is. The criminal action lies with the guards, the government, and the apologists. Whilst I understand that "doxing" my not merely affect the people doing this, but their families and friends, I completely support Anonymous in this. It is not vigilante, it is revolution that is long overdue. However, all corrupt regimes like to characterise revolution as criminal behaviour.
The sooner people that have think they can do disgusting things without retribution realise that the world has changed, and that they now have to take responsibility for their actions in the wider world, the better it will all be. Let the trials begin.
RE: "Criminal" in these cases ...
"... is what public opinion says it is......" Well, actually it's that darn thing called "the law" which makes that decision. If the public opinion is strong enough then the public votes in different politicians and the law gets changed. Fact is, Anonyputz and people like you are so far in the minority there's more chance of Bin Laden getting elected to the Senate than anyone that shares your blinkered views.
".......It is not vigilante....." No, it's a criminal act. Anonyputz are just minor crims that like to think they're "big'n'bad" from the safety of their parents' basements.
"......it is revolution that is long overdue...." Slight problem - revolutions without popular support are just criminal acts like riots. Face facts - you and your friends are the minority, you have no chance of swinging the general public behind you, and all you are doing is playing at revolutionary because there's nothing on TV to keep you interested. TBH, you all need to go out and get laid. You'll probably need a lot of pimple cream first, though.
Twisted web of information
I'm sure the "dox" aren't for punitive reasons either.
The Anon dox operations collect an amazing amount of data about their targets. They start with the basics like SSN and phone numbers and things like that. From there they get other details like family members or medical info and their net just spreads with no regard to privacy or data collection laws and all the juicy bits are collected, investigated and then used when the hammer comes down. If they find career ending info on their current targets or members of their families, they will use it.
/Don't go playing with fire unless you have your asbestos suit handy
I think the five-minute-interval checkups would bother me a lot more than the rest of it. Being lost in thought is enjoyable and, I think, would help someone stay sane in such a trying situation. (at least it would help me.) Having thought disrupted is itself a punishment.
Punishing him to save his life
They are making his life living hell in order to save him from risk of injury
I would like to see what exactly this risk of injury is based on
Ever spend time in an ICU?
They are making his life living hell in order to save him from risk of injury"
Spend time in an ICU of any major hospital. The noise goes on 24/7. So you have patients that are sleep deprived, and lack privacy. If you happen to get a 'moaner' in the bed next to you, its even worse.
The point is that its a living hell for the patients and yes the doctors are making the patient's life a living hell in order to save them.
Walpole Grumpboy, did you Ever spend time in solitary confinement?
... never mind the military type? ... never mind as an [Geneva-Conventions-rights-free] 'enemy combatant' under U$A official torture regime?
It's easy to tell by your weak-as-dickpiss analogy that you have not none of the above, therefore the ancient maxim applieth - "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
Although you try to hide behind a façade of 'Law and Order', it is all too obvious that your justification of torture stems from a cheap political imperative to protect favoured 'Western' war-criminals, whose cherished traditional impunity is threatened by those who expose incriminating evidence - which in my book is stinking hypocrisy of the lowest degree, but no surprise, as willfully blinkered little HomeLanders such as yourself are easily induced to display whatever traits of intellectual whoredumb the totalitarian predatory imperialist System requires for its continued economic survival.
So just declare yourself and strut that armband with pride, willya?
RE: Walpole Grumpboy, did you Ever spend time in solitary confinement?
"......"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."....." Oh dear, if only you had thought to follow your own advice! Your diatribe is just an astonishing deluge of paranoid delusions and fashionable buzzphrases, it's like abridged version of The Dummy's Guide to Leftism, only without any intelligent bits left in. Armband? You might as well have goose-stepped round the room waving your copy of The April Theses! Please, just explain what "incriminating evidence" has Manning provided? His leaks were, at most, embarrassing for the US Government. Please try putting one foot back in reality before considering your next post. Then again, you do provide great, if unintentional, humour!
Great to see the amazing media shitstorm around his treatment.. oh wait, even Anonymous gets more coverage these days.
It just shows that only fear really makes any difference. Think we'll need to work on a better leaker protection program for next time.
This is "not for punitive reason" the same way that Japan's killing of whales is "not for commercial reasons".
If you need it pointing out who are the good guys ...
... and who are the bad guys in this situation, shoot yourself now.
A hacker group, variously called script kiddies, a great hope for the future, youthful activists or just plain terrorists is demanding - get this - that the US government treat a prisoner awaiting trial as a human being.
And yet some people will have a problem with this, somehow. Despite the history of 'innocent until proven guilty', despite the prohibitions on 'cruel and unusual punishment', we saw that those running the show had no regard for human rights when guantanamo bay was set up. We saw that nothign had changed when Obama forgot to close it down. This is just another in a growing set of things that ought to be making any true patriots of the USA scream bloody murder. Except those that wave flags and crow about how great the US is are more likely to side with the military because Manning is perceived as the enemy. Not a US citizen, not a soldier (that they claim to venerate) but the enemy. And the enemy deserves no rights, is not human, for some reason.
Pentagon officials say the treatment is not for punitive reasons.
Who's try to con who? Civilians aren't like the military, they don't check their intelligence at the door.
Of course, being a marine, Bradley Manning is getting the full treatment - bet his cell air conditioning is turned up pretty high, too.
This is, of course Obama justice at work, Bush torture to cold attribute to ignorance but Obama actually excelled in university and is a lawyer and one of his duties is to protect American citizens.
Lucky his hasn't been declared an enemy combatant. Although, come to think of it Guantanamo inmates have it better.
Hope that this treatment is rated as cruel and unusual punishment and Manning is discharged on a technicality. Bastards.
He's army, not marines
Actually he is US Army not USMC. They just put him in the Marine brig. Prisons are expensive to keep and the UCMJ is the same for all services so I suppose it makes sense to have cross-service prisons.
That makes him an army traitor among marine guards. Poor sod. The treatment certainly is cruel but I'm starting to wonder if it is still unusual.
They're behind 7 Proxies.
(At least I SURE hope so.)
"I stopped giving water to my dog because it pees on the floor everytime it sees me." says the guy who kicks his dog.
And this is happening under Barack "close Guantanamo" Obama's watch. Disgusting.
What a bunch of barbaric fuckers.
And America still doesn't understand why the world hates them.
@Norfolk 'n' Goode
I don't excuse the yanks but they're not the worst in the world, and your words are the words of a cosseted westerner. You wanna try China, Burma and many more. There are billions of people ruled by worse than the govt of the US of A, western child.
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