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back to article HTC 7 Pro WinPho 7 smartphone

Any Windows Phone 7 device will give you a virtual Qwerty keyboard on its touch screen, but the HTC 7 Pro is one of the very few to offer a proper, slide-out hard key version, and the Dell Venue Pro’s vertical slider pales in comparison to this one. HTC 7 Pro Touch or type: HTC's 7 Pro It’s not an outsize handset like HTC’s …

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FAIL

Had this been any other mobile

without copy and paste, multitasking, or the ability to customise it, it wouldn't be getting a 85%. I'm guessing that half a billion dollars of advertising bribes for WinMo7 has some kinda smallprint. about minimum review scores.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/26/microsoft-half-billion-dollars-windows-phone-7/

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Flame

Evidence?

You have, of course, evidence to back up your claim that Microsoft is bribing El Reg and requiring minimum scores? If not, STFU.

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Anonymous Coward

There IS one other

I can think of one particular phone that didn't have copy and paste, multitasking, or customisation that actually managed to score higher.

http://www.reghardware.com/2007/06/30/first_apple_iphone_review/

The iPhone, of course.

Later, the 3GS received an 85%, still lacking these things.

http://www.reghardware.com/2009/06/22/review_phone_apple_iphone_3g_s/

Interestingly, the iPhone 4, which HAS all of those things, only got 75%

http://www.reghardware.com/2010/07/02/review_smartphone_apple_iphone_4/

But I suspect this wasn't the point you were trying to make is it?

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Anonymous Coward

3GS yes

Actually the 3GS had copy and paste, on the rest you're correct :)

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Actually

3GS didn't get copy and paste until the iPhone OS 3.0 update in June 2009, approximately a year after its release.

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FAIL

iphone 3GS

The iphone 3gs was introduced in June 2009.

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gjw
Jobs Horns

Bribe what's bribe?

But then again. 85% for this PoC? The only thing that makes stand out from the rest of the WP7 crowd (such as it is) is the querty keyboard, which, like the rest of this device is mediocre at best. Either was an exchange of money, or there should have been one.

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@Jim Coleman

The fact that this story has been front-page for 3 days now would indicate something is a little on the odourous side!

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iPhone 4 might have got 75%, might have got 85%

Or the iPhone 4 85%, depending on which page you read:

http://www.reghardware.com/2010/07/02/review_smartphone_apple_iphone_4/

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/02/03/top_smartphones/

I did email querying this and was told by the Reviews Editor:

“Things change. New products come out, comparative evaluations will reflect that.”

Which doesn't clear up anything.

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FAIL

Ironic

"Had this been any other mobile without copy and paste, multitasking, or the ability to customise it, it wouldn't be getting a 85%"

You're actually right.

http://www.reghardware.com/2007/06/30/first_apple_iphone_review/

Just not in the way you think.

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RE: @Jim Coleman

So has this:

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/02/21/review_pmp_cowon_d3_plenue/

What's your point, caller?

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FAIL

Emoticons?

So including emoticons makes this business ready????

I don't think so. Not in my business at least.

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FAIL

Desire Z?

I'd have thought a comparison with the Android equivalent was a bit of an obvious thing to do.

Not only the OS etc but also the keyboard itself.

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Stop

@ Desire Z

There is no Android equivalent AFAIK. Once I see a decently specced 5 row keyboard android phone, I will buy it.

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Well exactly.

"you won’t find much else here to recommend it over HTC’s other Windows phones "

You find much to recommend any Windows phone over another. Microsoft have locked it down so that, to the consumer at least, it looks like the OS is the product: Windows phones compete with Apple phones. The only difference is the size of the screen and the price. (a bit like with laptops). I can't see the upside for the manufactures to be in a race-to-the-bottom market like that. I find it most a bewildering choice for Nokia as it is a race they cannot win.

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Troll

Reductio ad... no, wait

I was going to rubbish your post by pointing out that the same things could be said about laptops, but then I read the rest of it and saw that you made that point yourself.

So, well done. You highlighted the flaw in your reasoning, clicked post anyway, made yourself look asinine and saved me the time. Except I still couldn't resist drawing attention to it. I suck at internet.

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perhaps It's not clear enough

I was trying to ask the question 'why, as a manufacturer, would you deliberately tie yourself into a a market differentiated solely on price?'

The point about laptops is that (if you are foolish enough to go into a highstreet vendor' you will see shelves of almost identical products all proudly showing windows 7 on one of two sizes of screen. Microsoft have worked very hard to make this happen. They want the consumer to think that Windows is a computer and a computer is windows. Alternatives are just for geeks, wierdos or the terminally aspirational.

The PC/laptop manufacturers work on very slim margins because they cannot differentiate their product (notice Apple have high margins because they can). To me, this appears similar to the gestating WinPhone market. The kind of market that Microsoft likes. Like an arms dealer supplying weapons to both sides Microsoft cannot loose. So, what's in it for Nokia? they just become one of the herd. How can they win on price against the Chinese who are already there? How can they win on design when Microsoft lock down the options? How can they win on additional features when there is an open 'apps market'? If Microsoft give them special privileges the other manufactures will revolt. If they don't Nokia will die.

With Android they can use their own UI. With Symbian they can point to efficiency. With Windows they can only do the same as everyone else. I just don't get it.

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@Magnus_Pym

Sure, as long as you only read comments on internet forums and never ever actually look at the phones themselves, then that opinion will remain valid... on the other hand, WP7 phones have:

- large screens (HTC 7) or smaller ones (Trophy)

- choice of memory capacity (it's just a standard MicroSDHC card, but unfortunately if you buy the phone from an operator they will make that choice for you, although you can always upgrade it yourself... if you own a Torx T6 screwdriver...)

- Standard cameras (Optimus 7) or 8mp + Xenon flash (Mozart - which also has Dolby speakers)

- Metal bodies (Mozart) or plastic ones (Trophy)

- landscape keyboards (HTC 7 Pro) or portrait keyboards (Venue Pro)

Admittedly that's not as broad a range as you'd get on Android at present, but compare it to the first generation of any other phone OS:

- Android had just one option (G1).

- WebOS had two (I think?)

- iOS... just kidding. There has only ever been one option there.

- Blackberry... OK, I'll be honest, I don't think I even remember the first generation of Blackberries... anyone?

The point you appear to have missed (and lots of people have missed it, so you're not alone) is that MS didn't "lock down" the hardware, as you put it. They simply wrote a *MINIMUM* spec level - to stop OEMs using crappy parts (which most people would see as a good thing). But MS only wrote one set of hardware drivers, and none of the OEMs bothered to write their own (which is understandble, given the unproven nature of the OS, but also explains why WP7s all use the same processor). The reason your conclusion about Nokia is erroneous is that if Nokia can be bothered to write its own drivers, it can use any hardware it likes. Thus, the "race-to-the-bottom" scenario, while dangerous, is easily avoidable if Nokia make an effort. If they don't, then they deserve to fail.

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And this is...

... makes it different from the price driven consumer laptop market because... ?

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@Magnus_Pym

My post was mostly aimed at your answer to your own question "what's in it for Nokia?" (and the suggestion that there is no customization in WP7).

I pretty much agree that there are similarities between the WP7 market and the laptop market... just like there are similarities between Android and the laptop market.

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Memory?

"8GB of memory, which you can’t expand"

Yeah.

Next!

Hang on a minute, though - "So far, there’s really very little difference between WP7 handsets – they’ve all got broadly similar functionality and features"

I haven't really been paying much attention to the WinMo7 phones (whacking great blue or orange squares everywhere, god that inteface is ugly), does this mean they all have fuck all storage and no expansion? And they're really expected to go head to head with iPhone and Android? Not going to happen, not at the high end.

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Silver badge

Expansion cards

I can understand why MS have fobbed off this issue. If you let phones have expansion cards you have to deal with users inserting / removing them at inopportune times which means mounting / unmounting them, firing system events, making your apps cope with weird edge cases. By simply not supporting expansion cards you save yourself a major QA headache.

On top of that is the issue of what do you allow users to put on the cards. Do you let them install apps to the cards? Or DRM'd content? What happens if an app / song is installed onto the card, running and the user removes it etc.? Android 2.2 eventually allowed apps to install their resources on an external card by storing the files inside encrypted loopback devices but it can still get clobbered by users removing cards.

I expect MS will figure it out, but it's another sign that the platform is immature. Of course they might disallow external storage forever and go down the same path of control freakery that Apple is famous for, preventing users from copying any files to or from the phone without using Microsoft's sync software as the conduit and arbiter of what is allowed and what isn't.

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Stop

Wrong

Microsoft do not ban or not support expandable storage - just removable.

http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010/10/12/windows-phone-7-and-removable-storage/

E.g. you can insert a 32Gb card if you wish. Just don't expect to be able to take it out of the handset and read it from a PC on a whim.

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why?

so why can symbian users take out memory card, plug to pc and see its contents or even disk check it? No horror stories either.

Such comments makes you see what kind of a horrifying mistake nokia did.

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@Ilgaz

"so why can symbian users take out memory card, plug to pc and see its contents or even disk check it?"

For the same reason that you can do that with a windows mobile (i.e. pre-WP7 phone) - namely, the OS manufacturer let you do it. BUT that presents a huge problem in a modern phone OS (particularly one that stores apps on a memory card), because if there is one thing developers hate, it's people sharing their apps for free. If WP7 let you swap out cards as you saw fit, then it would be difficult to stop people from doing this. So, in order to assure developers that this would not be a problem with WP7, MS decided to utilise the "secure" part of the "secure digital" name. You can insert any MicroSDHC card into a WP7, and it will format it and secure it, after which it will work fine with that phone, but you won't be able to use the card in any other machine.

From a consumer's point of view, it's not ideal, but it's difficult to see how else to keep developers happy. Unhappy developers would leave, leading to unhappy consumers in the long run. Consequently, Nokia's (and MS's) choice looks like the right one for the long haul.

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huh?

There is no such luxury of installing everything, especially payware, large games to C: drive which is very unique in eyes of platform security. E.g. you aren't installing trolltech qt framework to memory card because it will be simply ignored.

I better give another example. Ovi store defaults to memory card for apps installed. That is how much precious the C: is.

So how come there aren't any horror stories? Basically fail safe development with physical security. not caching writes, forcing user to remove battery if you don't have hot swap code for that model (some s40s) , ensure platform core level things aren't installed to mem card, make the entire os in a way that everything can be quit.

There is a reason why we say nokia idiots wasted an os which was designed for mobile from first line of boot code. Another great unique British OS wasted and foreigners feel more pity.

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Torn...

I'm really torn on WinPho mobiles. The hardware is fairly neat (with the exception of the camera!) and it looks like a really nice user experience, but I really dislike the idea of having to use Zune for syncing and whatnot. It's the same with Apple. I don't want to use iTunes to transfer data.

It's a shame, because I think that one issue alone rather leaves what could be a nice piece of kit a little hamstrung.

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Pint

Relax...

Zune is infinitely better than iTunes, you needn't fear using it. It actually makes syncing media to your phone really, really easy. Pictures, video, music, podcasts, zune channels, the lot. It also performs phone backups and Wifi syncing, as well as pulling photos and videos off your phone into your libraries.

It's a lot more functional than direct USB mass storage.

For instance, if I drag an artist onto my phone icon, it doesn't just copy all the music by that artist onto the device. It also creates a sync object for the artist, which means if I buy new music by that artist, it will automatically get put onto the phone. That is the kind of grooviness Zune provides that mass storage does not.

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Yuck

Windows 7? No thanks, I have long passed the days of regedit..

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FAIL

Correction

Windows 7 <> Windows Phone 7.

Please attempt accuracy, it saves you looking like an idiot

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no regedit but no registry?

sure ms found how to deal with preferences like unix or os x? E.g. tiny xml fies? Would you be surprised if these not windows phone things have ntuser.dat files?

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Thumb Up

WinPho7 Rocks!

I've had an HD7 for a few months now and love it. The interface is brilliant and while not perfect which phone OS is?

I'm looking forward to the update as I miss copy and paste from my iphone but that is the only thing I miss.

I also love Zune. I have a Zune pass and I can download or stream all the music I want. I also don't have to use iTunes any more which is a blessing. iTunes is possibly the worst piece of software ever written.

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Thumb Up

Good spot...

... eagle eyes! ;)

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FAIL

OMG

Tell me you're joking, no-one could possibly be that.....oh dear gods.

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QWERTZ

The photo is likely to be of a telephone made for Germany.

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Nice KB

WP7 aside, HTC have made a nice looking bit of kit there. Love the KB and it has numbers!!!

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yep

Y and Z are reversed, maybe a euro keyboard layout (just surmising) :)

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Bronze badge

It's german

QWERTZ is the German key layout. They use Z a lot in German and Y not a lot, kind of the reverse to English, hence the switcharoo.

I worked in Germany for a year and it took me ages to unlearn that layout.

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Happy

re: it's german

dann wo is der ümlaut?

And what is that funny "e" looking symbol on the "E" key? Is it supposed to be some kind of substutute for the missing "$" sign?

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Thumb Up

Maybe...

...they decided that piddly little unimportant currencies could get shoved into a secondary window... ;-D

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That would be the Euro symbol

You know, the money they spend in... Europe!

And it can hardly be a substitute for the $ that is still clearly visible on the number 4 key now, can it?

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Seriously?

It's the Euro symbol: €

Over here in the place where the history comes from, we have no need for your funny monopoly money.

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Linux

Does it brick when you update ?

Be interesting to see.

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Bronze badge

Bricked? Nope...

The reports of 'bricking' have been grossly overexaggerated...mostly by the Apple+Android fanmedia.

Bricking means a phone is rendered useless. MS have already given a workaround on how to sort out the problem, IF it occurs. Personally I updated my Omnia 7 using my Win7 x64 setup without the slightest hitch.

In truth, I'm more of the belief that the phones that had update problems were likely due to the devices having modified builds by the vendors. I updated my Omnia 7's firmware from that stupidly locked-down T-Mobile firmware (that blocked you from updating the firmware if you didn't have the correct jig) and onto the proper Samsung firmware for the device and haven't experienced a single problem.

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Stop

I wonder how many

Uninformed people will buy this because they think of HTC being Android, and then find out to their dismay they have been landed with a unwanted lame-horse of a WinMo7 phone?

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Flame

Gordon F Bennett, esq

Where to begin?

3 years behind state of the art? Actually most people agree WP7 is the NEXT generation, the social media integration, fluidity, live tiles and hubs being way beyond Android and iOS.

Cut & paste is arriving in 2 weeks

It is NOT "Win CE6.5" you have no idea what you're talking about. It's not "backwards compatible" because it's a new OS. Cut and Paste hasn't "been removed" it just hasn't been added yet.

The update bricked a very small percentage of phones with particular firmware from one manufacturer, try not to exaggerate.

85% is a perfectly reasonable score for this phone.

You really need to drop the hatred and go try out WP7, or else get yourself a blow job, you seem to be in more dire need of one than anyone I've ever come across.

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WTF?

Are you

George Michael?

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Er

"Actually most people agree WP7 is the NEXT generation,"

Got any figures on that?

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