The website of the far right English Defence League remained unavailable on Friday following a hack attack on Wednesday. The defacement (captured here by Zone-h) criticises the EDL for campaigning to kick British-born Muslims out of the country. The hacker TriCk aka Saywhat?, a member of the hacking group TeaMp0isoN, sprayed a …
Tell me, in what sense is the English Defence League "far right" ?
"I'm not racist, but..."
In the sense that they're "not racist, but..."
they are, by the nature of their policies, ultra concervative in common political terms. Not a criticism in itself; just a fact.
In every sense
Go google some pictures of their rallies. You will see the usual stragically shaven monkeys sporting neo-nazi regalia that attend BNP & Combat-18 rallies. They're a far right movement with a fixation on Muslims.
Define : Far Right
In the sense that it fits the definition?
Far right politics often support segregation; the separation of groups deemed to be superior from groups deemed to be inferior.
Unless of course you mean that the term "Far right" only really applies to a political movement/party as opposed to a bunch of racist cocks who want anyone with a slightly different skin tone out of "their" country.
In the sense that the majority of people mean when the use the term "far right".
This is generally how language works.
I'm sure you could conjure up a different definition of "far right" or instigate some tedious semantic argument about historic use of 'right' and 'left' ... but since your name does not appear to be Oxford E. Dictionary, I suspect most people will just ignore you.
I think it's time we dropped the left/right nonsense.
Was Stalin Left or Right wing? What about Hitler.
It could be argued that both were left wing. Stalin saw to it that "millions of members of ethnic minorities were also deported." and Hitler wanted "... economic security, social welfare programs for workers, a just wage, honour for workers' importance to the nation, and protection from capitalist exploitation.".
I've come to the conclusion that both "Left" and "Right" are just labels used to criticise without actual criticism. Call someone "Far Right" and people think Hitler and call them "Far Left" and they think you're calling them a "Commie" or a "Liberal" depending on the company you're in.
Added to that the slight changes in nuance depending on which wide of the Atlantic you're on and the terms loose all meaning.
These people are "Nationalist" or, if you want to be sensationalist they're "Racist" -- it seems that the religion thing is just an excuse to cause some bother though so, perhaps, they're just ignorant thugs?
Sounds like a job for...
...the Political Compass! http://www.politicalcompass.org/
It assigns a vertical axis (Authoritarian/Libertarian) perpendicular to the traditional Left/Right axis. Thus, the BNP (and probably EDL) could be thought of as left wing economically but authoritarian socially, for example.
re: Political Compass
Hey, I'm Nelson Mandela.
EDL not far right?
Andrew, have you ever been to one of their demonstrations?
And nor do I want to. But the politics of the right have to do with free-market capitalism.
The EDL have nothing to do with that, and associating them with it is nothing but a smear.
I disagree with your definition of the politics of the right.
"far right English Defence League"
Could someone at The Register please explain why it's 'far right' to protest against Islamic Extremism. Are you guys controlled by the Lib-Lab-Con too?
The true extremists are Islamic and part of the UAF, FACT
Extremists go off rampantly in any direction
left, right, up, down, backward (often), and forward (rarely).
As the French say: "Les extremes se touche"
(which could be mistranslated as "The extremists touch themselves" ;-) )
Whatever the direction, they take themselves too seriously.
Are you from another planet?
Or are you convinced that Muslims all belong to the Federation Against Copyright Theft?
I await another 'do i live near a fuckwit?' map search.
I'm guessing there's not many EDL members up in the North East of Scotland, however.
Off our streets!
Nice one Saywhat?
Posted Friday 11th February 2011 16:06 GMT
"Andrew, have you ever been to one of their demonstrations?"
I have, seen the Lib-Lab-Con backed UAF attacking the police while the police were boxing in the peaceful EDL.
Say why are the UAF thugs so scared of people protesting against Islamic Extremism & why do we NEVER see the UAF protesting against the Muslim Extremists on our streets that call for our deaths ?
Have you tried adding another layer of tinfoil to your hat?
The Crazy Beams appear to be penetrating.
And the funny part is
In another age you'd be burbling about ZOG or some other rubbish to justify your extremism.
Unite Against Facism don't protest against Muslims for much the same reason that paramedics don't sell pizzas. I think probably if you look closely enough you'll see that the clue's in the name.
It's not what the EDL say they are that's the issue. It's what they are. I think Wikipedia covers it.
That the mouthbreathers at the EDL managed to work out how to operate a computer, let alone build a website. It does use IIS though.
Not only that...
...but some of them seem to have discovered how to sign up and post to El Reg!
That one brain cell they've got between them must be getting tired of being passed around so much...
If you're referring to me, I resent that
I'm no apologist for those people. I'd go a long way to avoid an EDL demo.
The left/right labels are near meaningless, but the casual use of the label "far right" has every potential to smear the moderate right - to a much greater extent than the label "far left" smears the moderate left.
Knee-jerk reactions and trite labels have the danger of over-simplifying the argument. That is my sole point. It's convenient to pigeon-hole people, but doing so carelessly carries the danger that you fail to understand what's really going on, and get overwhelmed by events.
"Knee-jerk reactions and trite labels have the danger of over-simplifying the argument."
I guess that's why politicians love knee-jerk reactions and trite labels so much.
A very polite hacker
That was one of the most polite website hacks I've seen. Everyone may not agree with his little rant but it was fairly well presented and neither rude or abusive.
Hopefully he won't leak all that data he claims to have pinched because that would just cause more trouble and up the ante, not to mention increase his prison sentence if caught.
when the blow up a BUS I will have somthign against the EDL
Sport are troop's
LOL @ EDL members throwing teddies at getting called "Far-right".
Image what their reaction would be if you called them "Far-Left"? Actually, might be a good idea, but please let me first invest my life savings in shares of a knuckleduster manufacturer.
Upvote merely for the title
That is all...
LOL @ missing the point
It's the rest of the moderate right that are upset. Call the EDL whatever you like: just don't imply that the Tories (etc.) are 'EDL-lite'.
Are you purposefully imitating the TWAT-O-TRON?
I have googled them thanks
Posted Friday 11th February 2011 16:20 GMT
"Go google some pictures of their rallies. "
I have and as usual it's the left and their Muslim friends who are the real extremists
The EDL finest!
WARNING! This may make you throw up.
Shall I say more?
For those who have no idea on what the English Defence League is, I would recommend you to read the following article:
re: EDL's finest.....
Oh now I need to bleach my eyeballs again.....
Ah the master race!
Oh feel the hatred
Posted Friday 11th February 2011 16:43 GMT
"Are you purposefully imitating the TWAT-O-TRON?"
You are a prime example of a left wing nutter. Say as we say otherwise feel our wraith. The Socialists of the 1930s would be proud of you ;)
Feel my wraith!
Illiterate ... but kinky.
Re: Oh feel the hatred
This just made me smirk, I've never been called left wing before ('nutter', many times though).
You don't have to say as I say, and I have no wrath. Just don't be racist or xenophobic. kthxbye
Security Business To Take Off
A German party (which I would classify neo-Nazi, yet different from this party) has also been hacked:
IT professionals must now re-think the way we develop,operate and maintain information systems. What was paranioa in the past must be part of any solid IT concept in the future. That security does not come for free is not a valid argument - the IT business as a whole will suffer in case a the perception "computers in general are insecure" will become widespread.
Here is a list of technologies for our toolbox:
+ Safe Programming Languages such as Cyclone or Modula-3
+ Virtual Machines as a security concept
+ Cryptologic Support to encrypt and verify integrity
+ Mathematical Proofs of Correctness for systems like AppArmor or SE Linux
+ Secure Operating Systems such as the L4 microkernel, which has been proven to be correct.
I have a reputation for blasting the wrongdoings of Americans here, but I have to admit AppArmor and SE Linux are at least partially American technology. Please keep doing the good work !
Remember: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS...
...even if they are ignorant drooling racist knuckle-draggers. Oops...did I just feed the troll? Sorry!
On another note: anyone else notice that OpenDNS are flagging zone-h.net as a phishing site? Conspiracy theories on a postcard please.
A few points:
The hack text is well done. Hats off to the chap for being to the point, and pretty decent about making his point.
To all the "have you seen pics of the demonstrations" brigade. Have you seen pics of a goodly many demonstrations? Student demonstrations? The old Miners demonstrations that the left are so proud of? Many demonstrations go awry, and many more go peacefully.
The "<insert name of disliked organisation> are a bunch of knuckle draggers." can very much be attributed to any group. Resorting to that is really nothing more than name calling, which is the worst form of politicking, and not constructive in the least.
All the "racist" calls. Some are, some probably aren't. Ever seen Avenue Q? Lovely song in there that's called "Everyone's a little bit racist". Listen to it. It pretty much has a very good recipe for people just getting along, and the first step in that is to say "We're all a bit flawed, but if we stopped vilifying each other for perceived wrongs, and tried to concentrate on getting on and making the best, things would probably work better". Saying someone is <something>ist is most likely true at some level. Everyone is. It doesn't help solve anything.
Pointing out that the EDL are extremists is pointless. Yes, they probably are. Why? Because they seem scared witless of the Muslim extremists (you know, the ones who bomb places). Pointing out they're extremists is also pointless. Why are they extremists? Because the West has interfered for so long with the makeup of their home regions, and with such overwhelming force behind them that they feel there is no other choice. The west has done this for resources, and political deals that worked for some segment of the population in that area, and not for a goodly many others, but led to the advancement of the world by doing so. Though the ends don't necessarily justify the means. Follow the chain of causes, and try and work out why things happen, what options there are. It's a really complex mix of things that just brushing off groups as irrelevant because you don't think you agree with a message of theirs is just burying your head.
When someone offers an eyewitness account, try and find the evidence for or against it (Defiant, do you have evidence behind your assertion, i.e. news reports from a neutral source?). If you can disprove it, do so. We'll all have learned something then, instead of just listening to someone else shouting "Nyah Nyah" louder, which is just childish.
I personally hope that the membership list isn't posted for the same reasons I was pretty unhappy about the BNP lists being published, and the lists that Red Watch produced and published. Everyone has a right to an idea under the base tenets of the Human Rights convention. Sure, you may not agree with them, but hey.. What goes on in their head is up to them. Now, if they decide to act on it (gay/black/white/<insert demographic here> beating is violating a horde of laws, and gets punished under them), that's another matter. Being part of a political organisation doesn't necessarily mean you subscribe to all their excesses, just that you may share some of their views. I've seen this on left and right groups. All extremes have their moderating voices. "Outing" people simply incites aggression against unknown people, all on assumptions. If you can prove someone's done wrong, by all means, name and shame them.. But "outing" memberships of groups? That's just plain unethical (for me, that equates to "wrong"). Publishing the list would be a "wrong" action, which to me would only detract from the message that was put on the defaced site (which on the reading of it, I have to admit, it looked like he made a fair, and reasonable point!).
I sometimes find the amount of preconceptions and closed mindedness on forums to be staggering. Yes, I'm sometimes guilty of it myself (after all, I'm only human).
I'm not overly fond of the EDL, the UAF, the BNP or any of the more extreme groups. I like my cosy middle ground, but I don't forget that my ability to be comfy in my middle ground is occasionally won by the blood of extremists (on many sides). What I try to work out is what makes the extremists that way.. What the grounding is for their perceived cause, and where it leads back to.. That way I may actually learn something..
Anyway, rant over. I'm getting my coat. All the name calling that got tagged onto a pretty interesting and funny story really did irritate me.
Truly impressive how you balance on that fence...
...but that is the privilege of the largely white educated middle-classes. I suppose at least you have the decency to own up to your position. Being white myself it's easier for me to avoid the unpleasant attention of the likes of the EDL, BNP and their fellow travellers but I have Muslim (and others of South Asian origin - the racist knuckle-draggers make little distinction) friends, neighbours and work colleagues who do not have that luxury.
Typical of nice middle-of-the-road liberals your logic is based on several flawed assumptions:
(i) that we can have a reasonable, informed and productive debate with the likes of the EDL and the BNP - they are not interested and away from their "just within the letter of the law" public face their activists and followers frequently resort to violence, intimidation and thuggery;
(ii) that there is somehow an equation between "Muslim" and "extremist" - if you even know any Muslim people personally I challenge you to find one that even approaches extremism - what the EDL mean by "Muslim extremist" is someone who has the temerity to stand up for some the rights and privileges that you and I take for granted as British citizens;
(iii) that it is perfectly OK for the racists and fascists to go about their business with anonymity - NO WAY: if there is one productive thing about this hack (beyond a bit of propaganda and a good chuckle at the expense of the knuckle-draggers) it is that these people are named and shamed - do you never ask yourself why they are so coy about their political affiliations being associated with their real identities?
(iv) that this kind of discussion on comment boards actually matters one jot - much as I love El Reg what you and I are engaging in is just froth - wake up and smell the coffee! :-)
@ Ian McNee, your quote "make little distinction) friends, neighbours and work colleagues who do not have that luxury."
Yup, correct. Being merelyy different in skin colour or the language you happen to speak will do. Anybody else remember the occasion they trashed a Hindu temple in Dudley last year, when they were supposed to be "peacefully" protesting a mosque.
Oh and Defiant, that bollocks about Hitler being Socialist, Nazism was called National Socialism to be sure but just the same as Fascism waas actually driven by the middle classes, and by industrialists who benifited massively, whilst the working classes became cannon fodder for the machinery of state. Just because somebody calls themselves the King of the Penguins doesn't make it true.
Posted Friday 11th February 2011 17:14 GMT
"Was Stalin Left or Right wing? What about Hitler."
They were both on the left the Nazis being Socialists (look it up).
Winston Churchill on the other hand was Right Wing and anyone trying to deny this should look up his views on Islam!
The National Socialists were socialists in the same way that the Democratic Republic of Congo is a democracy.
ie: Not at all.
Could the right wing astro turfers....
...... Please get the hell off our lawn, although their entertainment value is excellent. And don't drag your knuckles on the way out.
I think i speak for everyone with 2 or more brain cells when i say...you and the EDL get the F*** out of our country.
"Our Boys" died to keep twats like you out of this once great nation.