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back to article EU Commission proposes new directive on storing air passenger details

Details of passengers on every flight within the European Union will be passed to destination countries under European Commission proposals published today. The Commission has proposed a Passenger Name Record (PNR) Directive ordering airlines to send the information it holds on its passengers to authorities in the destination …

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Coat

Eh?

"The proposal requires member states to anonymise all PNR data that is collected."

An anonymous Passenger Name Record? Surely that is a bit of an oxymoron?

Just saying.

Mine is the fully waterproof breathable one with draught proof seals.

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Black Helicopters

FAIL!

"Sensitive data that could reveal racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, or religious beliefs may never be transferred by air carriers to, or in any way used by, the member states,"

Surely racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, or religious beliefs would be inportant information regarding the detection of terrorist movements?

or am I missing somthing?

surely getting advanced passinger information regarding for example..

Mr Terry Jones

Gainesville, Florida

DOB : 04/03/1944

and

Mustafa Kamel Mustafa

Alexandria, Egypt

DOB 15/04/1958

would not even rase an eyebrow....

but add...

Pastor Terry Jones

Gainesville, Florida

DOB : 04/03/1944

Head of non-denominational charismatic Christian Church

Anti Islamic Activist. organised "Koran-burning protest"

and

Mustafa Kamel Mustafa

Also known as Abu Hamza al-Masri

Alexandria, Egypt

DOB 15/04/1958

Radical Muslim cleric

convictions for racial haterid,

closely monitord by MI5 due to possible connections with terrorist activities.

they are obviously people you would not want on the same flight or even at the same airport

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Joke

Really?

I'd put them in the same cell, just for the LOLs...

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Coffee/keyboard

New Keyboard please,,,

thats it you owe me a new keyboard thank you very much...

I will have one of these please !!

http://www.cherrykeyboardsrus.co.uk/BUNLIMTED+Home-Details.htm

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Coat

So...

"Sensitive data that could reveal racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, or religious beliefs may never be transferred by air carriers to, or in any way used by, the member states."

Does that mean that the data cannot be collected on people whose names would give a hint towards their probable ethnic ethnic origin, or religious beliefs, such as, for instance, if my name were 'Mohammed', or if I changed it to 'Hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster'?

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So...

Mass emailing of the US to delete their data, anyone ?

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Gold badge
Flame

More from the "Guilty *unless* proven innocent" school of jurisprudence.

No doubt they will play the "The 9/11 hijackers were all internal flights" line

Funny, because the US used the *reverse* idea to get PNR data in the first place.

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Big Brother

what EXACTLY is the problem this will solve?

Clearly there are privacy implications to this database.

So what is the value (for fighting terrorism) of an archive of anonymous passenger flight records going back however many years? What problem will this solve (even assuming anonymisation works)?

If there is no point, get them to throw the data away after the month is up (if you trust them - and imprison them if they turn out to have retained it).

And what exactly is the point of tracking people who fly, while ignoring train travel, ferries, and car journeys. Unless they want to bring back the big brother car tracking programme Labour proposed...

Maybe we should all have permits saying where we are allowed to live, and apply for passes to leave our home town?

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Anonymous Coward

Detica NetReveal and alike

Here's why 'anonymized' data can be useful:

http://www.deticanetreveal.com/en/government.html

(and I'm pretty sure 'anonymized' only means that they will assign an unique ID to each passenger and keep the names separately until needed).

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Gold badge
Happy

AC@16:30

*Brilliant* concept

Only I seem to recall the NSF releasing a report explaining that cross matching comms references to find the hidden terrorists by the their pattern of phone calls, texts etc was complete BS.

So does *anyone* know how well this supposed software works IRL?

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Silver badge
WTF?

PNR data is overkill for a security check.

The PNR contains first name, initial and last name; DOB; passport number/place of issue/expiry date; credit card information; meal preferences; seat assignment; special needs; potentially an address in the country of departure; cell/telephone numbers; e-mail address(es); frequent flyer plan number(s); date of departure/flight info; date of return; hotel - if made through GDS**; car reservations - if made through GDS; itinerary if multiple segment; travel agent notes.

Of this data there seems only 9 needed by Plod and company: first name, initial and last name; DOB; passport number/place of issue/expiry date; date of departure/flight info. The rest are quite unnecessary for a security check.

I deliberately obfuscate my information, and pay cash, because it simply an unwarranted intrusion into my business. Fortunately my travel agent has a separate database in which she stores cell/tel numbers, etc. so she has no need to include this in the PNR. She also understands she'll lose all my and my employers business if she ever handed it out.

** GDS = Global Distribution System (Amadeus, Galileo, etc)

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Big Brother

thing is....

The thing is, I hate all this data mining and all the databases that hold info on us all as much as the same person.... but....

I go on my holidays to Florida in 2 weeks time (yay...) and to be really honest after 9 hours on a plane the last thing I want is to be pulled aside at the airport for additional checks because I object to them having whatever info they want in advance... none of that info that you say is all in the PNR would I object to giving them on arrival if they asked for it, maybe some of it is un-necessary, but so long as I get through the airport that little bit quicker.... do I really care if they know that I had the chicken vomit instead of the beef vomit?

On the other hand, if you’re the only person on the flight who the only info they have is the bare minimum then you stand out! And look like you have something to hide! (Is that the snap of a rubber glove I hear)..

Ultimately, whatever the country you are travelling to, whatever the info they want, if you don’t want to give it then don’t go to that country and if overseas travel is part of your job then get another job.

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Gold badge

There is a simple answer to this idea..

.. ask for the reverse as well, otherwise, no dice. A bit like SWIFT data, it should be possible for EU police to investigate US cituzens' interest in pr0n or whatever else proves helpful.

After all, the 9/11 guys actually lived in the US, so I think the EU has every right to ask for advance notification.

If that symmetry cannot be achieved, there should not be an exchange at all.

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Gold badge
Flame

So *does* PNR information get you through customs faster?

I seem to recall a US company offering a service to collect all your usual PNR information, holding it and supplying it on demand to the TSA as a sort of premium service to frequent flyers.

The a laptop with the *whole* database got stolen from a locked room in the private side of one of the airports.

So giving up your privacy for "convenience" can give identity thieves and burglars a gold mine of information on people who are out of town often and where to find their homes when they are, along with some nice CC data and roughly a nine hour window when you won't even know anything has happened.

Bon voyage.

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