back to article Gov gone wild: Mad new pub glasses, bread freedom introduced

Science minister David Willetts has launched a vicious January attack on the honest British pint in favour of Australian "schooners" and Continental micro-measures of wine. Under cover of claims to reduce red tape, Willetts will end rules restricting pubs to selling beer in pints and half pints to allow them to sell "schooners …

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Anonymous Coward

old fashioned

I think they should forget all this fancy stuff, and bring back good old fashioned British pint glasses, big, solid, dimpled and with a handle.

I can't see anyone ordering a schooner of beer unless they mistake it for some sort of pitcher. It's ingrained in us, you order beer by the pint, with an occasional half for the ladies.

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Even better

One day I hope to live somewhere with a proper local boozer worth frequenting often enough to to leave a tankard behind the bar.

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Me I prefer a Straight

That's actually the traditional beer glass, dimples arrived in 1948. 10 Sided glasses were the original jugs, but only form the 1920's, before that it was pewter.

But each to their own.

Standard sizes are designed to protect us drinkers from short measures, which is why pub glasses are stamped or have measure lines, is Willets doing away with those as well, so we actually never know how much is in a glass.

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Coat

Traditional

But if we're going for traditional, why don't we drink beer out of horns?

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Not allowed because of food hygiene

Tankards will never return due to food hygiene laws - you're not allowed to re-use glasses without washing them.

I'm not sure I want to drink out a pewter tankard, and the glass ones are even more uncomfortable than the old handled pint glasses. There are a few pubs that you can get handled pint glasses in, but stock is usually limited and they're not offered to anyone that looks like they might cause trouble

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Standard sizes

Amen to that (standard sizes of pint and half for the ladies). Australia does not even have a standard size for a schooner - it varies by state. I've even been served a different sized schooner in the same pub depending on whether thee is frequenting the public bar or the other one - a legacy sized one I believe. For some beers you get a "glass" - I mean WTF kind of measure is that? It costs the same or sometimes more than a schooner too. I been served a draught beer in the following sized glasses that I can remember - 285ml (half), 330ml, 385ml, 425ml, 570ml (pint). It's shit and it leads to customers getting f*cked over. Willets is obviously a prick.

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Pint

Bread Sizes!

"The Science Minster also promised to overhaul pesky restrictions on bread sizes, which have apparently bedevilled bakers across the land."

If someone can force bakers and toaster makers to get together and decide what size a slice of bread should be then they deserve a fucking nighthood.

Anyone that eats toast should know what I mean.

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I would like...

...to subscribe to your newsletter.

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Happy

Right on!

Slicing a farmhouse into doorsteps one and half inch thick, shoving into the grill, then smearing it in Marmite...nothing, absolutely nothing on this earth beats that! Not even a visit from a scantily clad Lucy Pinder would make me swap my toasty doorsteps and Marmite!

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Toaster?

Be a man and slice your own bread, and slice it properly! I've only ever seen "Doorstep" slices on one loaf so far, and they were only around 1/2".

If I can still fit the thing in my mouth, the bread isn't sliced thickly enough! "Wafer thin" toasty rubbish is pointless.

By the way, typically the own-brand cheap bread fits the toaster just fine. Give it a go; You're burning it anyway.

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Letters, Digits.

I've just googled Lucy Pinder. I think you're bonkers. I'd happily accept a complete ban on toast** if I could have a visit from a scantily clad Lucy Pinder.

** But I do reserve the right to subsequently break the law.

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Toast

Minimum 1.5" thick, buttered to the point where it's dripping out the other side.

And to think I sometimes wonder why I'm turning such a fat bloater.

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Pint

Bread

"If someone can force bakers and toaster makers to get together and decide what size a slice of bread should be then they deserve a fucking nighthood."

And if someone could force those said bakers to justify putting half a bloody gramme of bloody salt in every last bloody slice, I'd pin a medal on them myself.

"Oh, it's a preservative, it's to make the bread last longer."

Hmmm.

/looks at packaging:

"Use By Tomorrow."

Not overly convinced, personally...

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IT Angle

Googling

"I've just googled Lucy Pinder".

Fnerk.

But seriously, I wonder how much extra googling she's had as a result of this comment.

What? It's a tech issue!

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Errrr. ..... no its not a preservative (entirely)

Its part of the chemical processo of breadmaking. Its used to kill the yeast once rising is complete. By changing the amount you can control the rising process. By putting lots in you can kill it quickly and use more yeast. This gives you a quicker production process and consistent rise.

I bake my own bread, and it has about half a gram in the whole loaf.

Get a bread machine, youll never look back.

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FAIL

It's a bit more complicated than that.....

What the COI paper actually says it that it is trying to remove artificial restrictions on the quantities that booze and bread must be sold in. There is no suggestion that I see that the government is trying to force anybody to actually offer for sale booze in the "new" amounts. The market, as always, will decide and I doubt I will see anybody drinking schooners in my pub. Nor thimbles of wine or port. When the government is removing restrictions we should applaud; equally if they proposed to make a certain size of glass mandatory we should protest. And if they try to make Aussie beer compulsory.........

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Unhappy

I'm late into this thread, but...

It is more complicated, I can see the government putting 3p on a pint, but it would only be 2p on a schooner, so that’s not so bad is it. The 20p on a bottle of wine would only be 2p a glass as well, so stop fretting over government fuelled inflation.

The law changes will be followed by a campaign to drink the smaller measures on offer, the pubs will charge more for the smaller measures, everyone will drink as much as before, more profits, more duty collected and government and pubs being seen to tackle excessive drinking.

Been around too long, so cynicism comes too easily.

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Re: I'm late into this thread

Petrol is taxed by the litre, but you can buy whatever fraction of a litre you like without any difficulties. It will be the same for beer or wine.

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Joke

@Jonathanb: Sounds straight

I'm sure they'll be replacing pubs with ordinary filling stations and complimentary metres, shortly.

I want to drive the beer truck, on that day. The first international beer-truck heist - just imagine....

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Anonymous Coward

2/3rds of a pint

why couldn't he do it "properly" and simply allowed half litres!

Anyway, why do they need to permit 2/3rds of a pint ... if someone wanted this why couldn't they just ask for 2 1/3rds of a pint

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Pint

Litres....

....properly, bah!

Beer comes in imperial measures as $DEITY intended!

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Pint

You can buy a third of a pint already.

http://www.beerandpub.com/industryArticle.aspx?articleId=74

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Boffin

Simples.

Because half a litre is 500ml whereas a pint is 568ml.

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Troll

PROPER beer

from PROPER beer-producing countries such as Germany and the Czech Republic are served in half-litres, or, even better, litres. I don't see why I should settle for a measly 0.455 litre. You guys in the UK are already being short-changed!!

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Pint

Small Pints

0.455 Litre? Sounds like some sort of US Pint, the Imperial Proper Pint is 0.568 Litre.

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Pint

I'm sick and

tired of being forced to drink metric beer here in France. It's depressing to count the shrapnel left in my pocket and automatically calculate that I drank 3.5 l of beer last night. I'd much rather leave it to a vague, foggy "few pints".

n.b. although I also miss good old canadian pitchers (60 uk oz, or three pints)

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Pint

Beer today gone tomorrow

It will just be used as an excuse to charge more for less.

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Exactly...

The whole REASON of standardizing on the pint and half pint was so that consumers ALWAYS knew what they would be getting as a measure. And prices standardised based upon those amounts, and price comparisons are EASY because of those standardised amounts.

This will, frankly, end up costing all of us money in the pub. You will order a beer, and shock - you will get a schooner, but it will cost as much as the old pint. The pint WILL still be available, but at a slightly higher price. This won't happen all at once, and it won't happen everywhere - but happen it will, and we consumers will gradually "get used to it".

"Rip-Off England" continues...

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Pint

Why

Err... Why?

When was the last time anyone thought "you know what this half pint needs is another third of a pint"? Honestly? Anyone?

Now I can remember the last time I thought "you what this pint needs is another one". Actually, no I'm not so sure I can...

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Pint

Fractions. Tricky buggers.

A half plus a third is five sixths. So, of course no-one thought that!

BTW., pubs can already sell beer in thirds of a pint.

http://www.beerandpub.com/industryArticle.aspx?articleId=74

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FAIL

Do not want...

Only girls drink halves, and big girls drink pints.

And I'm sure landlords up and down the land are relishing finding extra space for all these new glasses.

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Pint

1/2 & 1/3 allow variety AND quantity

When faced by 30+ ciders I want to try (a surprisingly common event) the 3'rd pint 'nip' is a lifesaver. The half is a poor substitute. Gives some chance of hitting the pub on the way home...

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FAIL

Schooner glasses have been around in the UK for a long time

A Schooner (or shooner) is 4 fluid ounces (112 ml) and is the standard size for a large port or sherry (it's basically a double measure of either).

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Pint

And also-

When the knobbly pint pots were still around, the tall slippy ones that are used today were known as schooners too...

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Pint

Of course...

IANAL (I am not a landlord) but this does probably mean that every pub cash till in the country will have to be replaced, with ones that have options of 'pint', 'half-pint' and 'somewhere-in-between', at a stonking great cost.

The board of National Cash Registers are probably drinking to this already.

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Anonymous Coward

I'm going to presume that you're a round-dodger

as otherwise you would have noticed that the vast majority of pub tills are remotely reprogrammable front ends for the stock control system, so adding another size option isn't really that big a deal

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Stock Control

My local still has an old fashioned till where the bar staff put in an amount for each drink and it adds them up, just like they did in the eighties when I worked behind a bar. The stock control is handled by the cellar man. Given the rotation of guest beers (draught and bottled) stock control on the tills would be a nightmare.

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Pint

Proper Pubs vs the rest

I think they only 'pubs' that will care are those that charge 4 quid for a pint of fizzy piss (if you can even get a glass, rather than a 330ml bottle for the same price). These places will now take the opportunity to sell a 'schooner' for 4 quid. Proper pubs, selling proper beer will continue to do so in proper measures at proper prices (some can even still manage it in proper glasses with dimples and handles).

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Heart

+1

You, sir/madam, are absolutely right: the only people who will "accidentally" order the wrong size of beer are the ones ordering uber-trendy yellow water that they saw in an advert. If they are too lazy to discover real beer, then I'm happy to leave then to their ignorant overspending ways.

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Stuff the schooners...

Presumably if they can now sell in any size they choose, then they can sell beer in the German 1 Litre 'Maß'?

I wholeheartedly applaud such a change and toast it with a a full litre of Teutonic über-bräu.

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Paris Hilton

Stuff 1 litre

I've got a 2 pint stein at home (to the line, extra room for a proper head). I did once persuade a pub to serve me in the similar glasses they had behind the bar for decorative purposes.

(Paris? I mentioned head...)

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Boffin

2 * 1/3 in one glass

Wikipedia tells me that an Australian Schooner is mostly 3/4 pint, but in some places it's 1/2 pint (or, historically less). If true, it would seem nonsensical to use that word to mean 2/3 pint. Especially when your classic convex sherry glass is already called a schooner.

Meanwhile, as it's already allowed to sell 1/3 pint measures of hearty ale, it seems sensible that you should be able to sell 2/3 pint in one glass. (Provided it's lined and you actually get the volume you pay for...)

P.S. I will never buy cold flavourless lager - whatever the size of the glass.

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Pint

1/3 of a pint...

....is referred to as a "nip". It's the size of bottle used for selling barley wine (very strong sweet beer) like Marstons Owd Rodger or similar. The idea was that most people would find it difficult to drink a full pint of the stuff, both due to the sweetness and also the sledgehammer effect of the alcohol content.

I once accidentally brewed something like this for a party, due to an error involved teaspoons vs tablespoons when adding sugar to the mash. My memory of actually drinking the stuff is now somewhat absent for reasons I can't remember....

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Headmaster

@ Old Tom

That would be a *concave* glass, I think you'll find. At least from the outside.

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I've made similar mistakes

while at the same time using wine yeast instead of beer yeast.

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Concave

All glasses are concave, otherwise the liquid would not stay in them!

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Not all glasses are concave:

ACME [otherwise known as our good friend Cliff Stoll] produces topologically non-concave drinking vessels:

http://www.kleinbottle.com/drinking_mug_klein_bottle.htm

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Yes

I did mean concave; sadly my typing didn't match my thinking.

More specifically, I meant concave-sided truncated inverted-cone-shaped glass.

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Stop

What the article doesn't say is...

.... typically in Australia and New Zealand, the schooner is served empty, accompanied by a 1 litre jug full of beer...

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