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back to article Dutch hacker group offers to 're-educate' teen hacktivists

A Dutch hackers collective named Revspace wants to "re-educate" Dutch teens suspected of cyberattacks against Mastercard and Visa and websites of the Dutch National Prosecutors Office – and turn them into "ethical hackers". Last week, Dutch police arrested a 16-year-old boy for participating in web attacks against MasterCard and …

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Troll

Sir

"shown a better way"

what, like figuring out which service provider routers are serving the back-end databases of the target instead of the glossy front end and going for those instead? Enquiring minds want to know.

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FAIL

Security Experts in stating the bleeding obvious shocker

The findings of that university report could have been knocked up in five minutes if they'd downloaded the (freely available) souce code of the LOIC. But then going to all the extra effort of packet sniffing and setting up test networks probably sucks more cash into your research budget.

There's a lot of other silliness talked about the LOIC by 'security experts'

"security expert Peter Wood said that in practice it would be very difficult to track down the people involved because the attacks used "anonymising software" to hid their tracks online." [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11968605]

Eh? Did Peter even bother to look into the LOIC before expressing an opinion so authoritatively? And, as he'd have seen *if he'd bothered to check his facts* incorrectly? I note that the BBC doesn't name his organisation or give his credentials. Which is shame as I for one would like to know who to avoid them when buying in pen-testing.

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Silver badge

I'll agree, *if* ...

... you'll stop calling the little anti-social brats "hackers".

They aren't hackers, they are skiddies. At best.

But yes, they really should be better socialized^Wedumacated.

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Anonymous Coward

@jake

>>"They aren't hackers, they are skiddies. At best."

I guess if they've actually been conned into participating on the basis that they won't get caught, 'skid-mark' might be a better name

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sscriptkiddies indeed

I've been calling them that to their face for about a month now, ever since they had their crying fit over the open letter from the Pirate Party (US&UK). They don't like that too much. I've had my home connection DDOS'd by a handful of them for a few days this past week, especially after I started promoting a rebrand of 'Operation Avenge Assange', to Operation Toddler Tantrum

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Black Helicopters

@Andrew Norton, if that's your real name.

>>"I've had my home connection DDOS'd by a handful of them for a few days this past week,"

So, rather than having to get the authorities to try and pick out a few people from a mass attack on a big target where there may be botnets involved, instead you lure a handful of them to attack a specific target of little global importance, but one where pretty much *any* unsolicited incoming traffic is by definition suspicious.

Cunning, very cunning.

Assuming you actually exist, of course, and aren't just a front for the Great Conspiracy.

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Loquor ergo sum

I comment, therefore I am.

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Bronze badge

Prison !!

is the best place for these people to learn the error of their ways.

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Re: Prison !!

Ah yes. There they can use tablets of stone, scrolls and abaci instead of day to day computing. DDOS that you little f*cker. (Shower of tablets fly out of a prison cell as the child throws its toys out of the pram.)

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FAIL

Righty

"Martijn Gonlag, pictured here, says he only wanted to test software, and wasn’t supporting Wikileaks" yeah because i was just born yesterday. I think a forced re-education program is in order

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Alien

excellent news

Jolly good, they can start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic

Indeed, this is a fab book:

Steven Levy - Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackers:_Heroes_of_the_Computer_Revolution

The fascists on this thread, your baying for punishment is Neandertal. FYI, punishment encourages avoidance. To shape behaviour, your best bet is negative reinforcement, and this is done by providing alternate ethical systems, role models, conceptual tools etc. Psychology 101, RTFM - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement

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Alien

yellow-bellied ignoramuses

Oh, two downvotes! I note you don't have any better ideas - you would have mentioned them if you did!

To my mind this whole mess is due to this culture of retribution, rather than reasoned thought. It seems to me that further clampdowns are likely to be counter-productive, it will just create more martyrs, more poster-boys. I suggest that to defuse this situation, a calm and sophisticated view is needed, and that does not involve baying for blood, especially the blood of children.

As force begets resistance, it is without a doubt in the best interests of all parties, to back away from the use of force, and return to the path of peace.... and that means being reasonable, negotiating, making compromises, and avoiding provocative behaviour. On all sides.

These are elements of the participative democracy we now inhabit - you are merely defenders of the past. The future is calling. Right now.

Nobody is calling for illegal acts, aside from the US Government, the US media, and a segment of Anonymous. Everyone else in this saga merely wants truth, justice, honesty and the rule of law to prevail. Witch-hunts do nothing to fix the problem.

I presume those calling for prosecution are also calling for prosecution of prominent US politicans and media outlets, who have also committed illegal acts, and of course are also calling for prosecutions relating to the various illegal acts revealed in the cables so far. Or is it that laws should only be enforced on the peasants?

Of course, I'm just a stupid AC, what would I know...

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Anonymous Coward

@AC

>>"and this is done by providing alternate ethical systems, role models, conceptual tools etc."

...or even girlfriends.

You're right on the downvoting thing - unless someone's being actively stupid or factually wrong, I can't see the point of downvotes, and even then, if someone is factually wrong, it'd be better if someone pointed out why.

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Happy

One stupid AC to another

I didn't downvote you but I do beg to differ. There are boundaries to acceptable behavior and civil disobedience. If I, for example, am against Animal Testing I am well within my rights to go protest in front of their facility or online, or to campaign lawmakers to shut them down. I step out of bounds if I attempt to block access to their facilities, firebomb their labs or make threats against their employees. It's really pretty simple... my rights end where someone else's begin - that is the basis of civil society.

This is why many prominent hackers/subversives/free-speech-advocates have been promoting the exact opposite of what Anonymous has been doing... if you want to support what Wikileaks is about then mirror their site, don't get yourself arrested trying to force those that you see as enemies off the Internet. Speaking of... how is forcing websites you disagree with offline supporting free speech again? Those same people argue that Anonymous, in trying to support "free speech" by supporting Wikileaks in this manner have become the very antithesis of their goal.

Regarding the reinforcement comments, there *have* to be consequences to trespassing other people's rights or the system would fall apart. Could you imagine trying to drive to the office/school/wherever and everyone was free to shoot though stop signs and red lights without recourse? Laws are there, in most cases at least I'd argue, to ensure and enforce civil behavior like taking turns at a 4-way stop. I'm all for us using as much positive reinforcement as possible, but there are limits - only ever using positive reinforcement is as ridiculous as trying to only ever use negative reinforcement. IMO at least...

...from one stupid AC to another.

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Why AC

I upvoted but why did you post as AC?

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Revspace is cool

Revspace is a really cool place. They organized a GUADEC end of conference party there earlier this year and for anybody interested in hacking (in the traditional sense of the word), it's a really great place. They've got lots of cool kit and the people who run it are very knowledgeable.

If you're interested, their web site is here: https://foswiki.sonologic.nl/RevelationSpace

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Silver badge
Grenade

Whatever you say Uncle Tom

"Anyone can download and start a computer program and become part of a coordinated online crime"

Indeed. In fact if you are part of an international credit providing duopoly it is even easier to become part of a "coordinated online crime" and the police won't take even the slightest bit of interest.

"They should be shown a better way to reach goals"

Oh, really? Such as what? Writing a sternly worded letter to their elected representative and then receiving a computer generated reply along the lines of "We take your concerns very seriously blah blah blah" perhaps? Or maybe something more forthright such as demonstrating in the streets to be told "We will never give in to bullying" by the people who control the jack-booted baton weilding brigade?

Perhaps if the people in charge of our "democracies" hadn't turned ignoring the wishes of the people into high art then people such as this wouldn't feel compelled to take matters into their own hands in this manner.

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Anonymous Coward

Well, we've seen the restless children at the head of the columns...

>>"Indeed. In fact if you are part of an international credit providing duopoly it is even easier to become part of a "coordinated online crime" and the police won't take even the slightest bit of interest."

And no doubt Mastercard and Visa are ruefully saying

"And we'd have got away with it, if it wasn't for these damn kids."

Though of course, the attacks don't [currently] seem to have done them massive harm.

And even if they end up being successfully sued by the Icelandic company, that'll be nothing to do with Anonymous, merely businesses sorting things out in grown-up ways.

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