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back to article Christians vs metalheads in FB flame war

If you want to start a contemporary religious war, what better place to launch it than through Facebook? Residents of Sydney, Australia who had been looking forward to a "black metal festival", scheduled for next weekend, must now find other entertainment, as Catholic group, Catholics Taking Action (CTA), successfully mounted a …

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WTF?

Human Rights Violation

Don't they have laws against religious discrimination down under? They should sue the RSL, may be in Strasbourg for mass boring and discriminating people, there must be a single European concert-goers and if he or she is discriminated ...

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FAIL

Hypocrites.

Why don't the Christians simply forgive them, after all isn't tolerance and forgiveness what that cult is mostly all about?

It seems so obvious.

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Depends on your reading.

If you're more of the protestant, evangelical bent then you forget the new testament (with its forgiveness) and stick to the old one (godly ire, eye-for-eye swaps, etc).

I fail to get fired up about either of these two here, their own imaginary friend and disparaging the other's.

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hillarity

I remember at RocSoc back at uni, we had a complaint formally lodged against us by members of the Christian Union that we were quote "Baby eating, granny rapers".

The great irony was given a few drinks, the members of the Christian Union were far more promiscuous than any of the nerds that made up rocksoc.

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Coat

I'd bite the head off a bat!

But the aussies are having enough trouble with their batting already!

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Anonymous Coward

Ouch!

see title

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Happy

What's the bat done to you ?

Leave the poor bats alone! I'd far rather bite the head of a Christian :-))

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By a hundred hanging popes!

That X-tian description would make me expect that Lovecraft's body animated by Nyarlatothep would be making guest appearances during episodes of especially deep bass accompanied by the mad piping of blind, ghoulish metal groupies.

Otherwise I would ask for money back.

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Self-awareness

Catholics protesting against bizarre rituals to please make-believe entities? Irony fail?

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whoa whoa whoa!

are you saying that you can't be a metalhead AND Christian?

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FAIL

List of Christian metal bands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_metal_bands

this is FAR from a complete list...

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Megaphone

Respoding via Facebook? Pah- use traditional methods...

Release the Lions!

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hey

Keep us Romans out of this

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Happy

Lions ?

No, welease Bwian instead.

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Godsquad vs 'Satanist' saddoes ?

Really not sure who I most want to lose - that's got to be the most difficult call since we saw London Riot Police vs Foxhunters several years ago.

Flying Spaghetti Monster icon, please.

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Joke

Inverted Crosses! Oh no!

Who'd want to follow a man that sits on a throne with an inverted cross?

Other than the Catholics, I mean.

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Rock!

Rock musicians have used scary themes to add to the wildness of their music, Black Sabbath being the most obvious example. On balance, this event seems more like genuine Satanists trying to pass themselves off. Rock music is creative, joyful, wild and free. Genuine Satanism is none of these. Get out of here you spooky b*stards.

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Genuine Satanists?

No such thing. There's only kids for whom "Mum, I don't believe in god" didn't have the expected impact.

Before I get downvoted, I'd like to point out that this is not intended as a slur against non-believers. I'm an atheist myself.

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Anonymous Coward

RE: Genuine Satanists

It might have been that way in the early 90s with the handful of nutters who committed murder or burned down beautiful old churches, but you're more likely to find people into Nietzsche now which has far more in common with your La Vey Satanists. After all what is more anti-Christian than the belief that we aren't all equal nor is there a god.

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Msinatas

Satanism, as an offshoot of Christianity, could most likely be classified as a subsect of Catholicism. They share the same belief structures and are effectively the same thing. Probably best to leave the respective devotees to their (comparatively small) difference of opinion and enjoy the show.

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Stop

Irony.. or hypocrisy?

Ignoring the differences between Catholics and Christians for the moment, it seems odd that a group who has had so much media coverage for non-holy actions should start pointing the finger.

So much for the modern Church being open to the views and beliefs of others. And a MASSIVE "shame on you" for the powers that be crumbling like a soggy digestive and cancelling the gig. Totally spineless!

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Anonymous Coward

"So much for the modern Church being open to the views and beliefs of others."

When did they say they would be open to the views and beliefs of others?

It's more a case of "I'm open to your views, if they are the correct ones". I'm sorry but that's just the mindset that organised religion seems to encourage. And I qualify it with the word organised quite deliberately.

Having a religion in and of itself doesn't corrupt your thinking (I'm not an atheist of the pompous militant ass variety) but seeking to regularly associate with people based on those beliefs seems to lead inexorably to a feedback loop of crazy bullshit ideas. You go to church once a week and its a great big stroke-fest of people saying "yes I feel really compassionately about your situation, by the way did you know I am only here to avoid going to hell?" It's sick in a way.

I believe that any one member in a group of people is only as intelligent as the dumbest, least productive member of that group. You let one idiot in (usually the priest) and sooner or later everyone's licking the windows. Of course the world is full of idiots so going to church inevitably involves under-clocking your brain by a factor of at least 12. It's the same in any organisation btw; school, work, ass to mouth club. Church just happens to be a particularly nice example.

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"sooner or later everyone's licking the windows"

Stained-glass windows!

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It Is Easy To...

...go on about freedom of speech and freedom of religeon as long as "they" are not too different than you.

Fringe acts such as this test our belief in our own professed standards. .

Not a Satanist myself, athough a friend says the virgin once a month is a lot of fun.

The truly evil thing about all this is that one would need to join Facebook to participate.

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fuckers

motherfucking self-righteous moral crusaders. If they don't want to listen to some metal they don't have to go to the fucking concert. Fuck them and the anally retentive high horse they rode in on.

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Meh.

Their targets are also a famous bunch of w*nkers, play-acting believers in an even less coherent worldview not even propped up by good intentions like the commandments.

Like the EDL creating an atmosphere that helps recruit fundamentalists, the two deserve each other but make it worse for the more sane rest.

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Anonymous Coward

Define "good".

"Their targets are also a famous bunch of w*nkers, play-acting believers in an even less coherent worldview not even propped up by good intentions like the commandments."

The Satanists I've met (ok so most of them were from one small group with their own specific ideas) have had a more liberal, open-hearted and open-minded set of ethics than your average human. They just like doing what they want to do, and tend to do it whether society thinks it acceptable or not (largely because they've taken the time to evaluate the effect of their actions). It is precisely because their interests are some way from the mainstream that they understand the currency of suffering, and don't feel the need to add more of it to the world. And that includes a bit of pomp and ceremony. Because, you know, dressing-up games are fun.

Judge not, lest ye be the kind of individual who thinks drinking over-priced beer by the tard-load of a Friday night, or spazzing out to who won the football, or group-fondling matt-black plastic at Computer Con is the height of entertainment.

And I rather like science, so don't thumb me down for being a Believer. You really wouldn't have a clue what I know or believe or hold to be somehow and somewhat valid (where "valid", in case you hadn't noticed, is pretty much a function of a long series of value judgements and is a long way from any sort of "truth").

And on the subject of incoherent world views: Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity.

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FAIL

Ehh?

Surely the line "On the other hand, a medieval Facebook might have made the crusades a whole lot less bloody?" is totally incorrect?

The whole point to this story is that the weird religious types used facebook as a tool to force their oppressive views onto others.

Wasn't that the entire point of the crusades?

I reckon if we had a medieval Facebook we would have had the same affect as some of the "face book party's" you see nowadays.

Unfortunate Arab parents coming home to find their hose trashed by the Christians turning up with a free open house invitation garnered from a foolish child's facebook page.

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Anonymous Coward

Crusades

>Wasn't that the entire point of the crusades?

No. The Crusades were staged (initially, at least) in an effort to roll back Islamic military conquests in the Levant, which had subjected the population to Islamic rule (where non-Muslims had the choice to convert or pay heavy 'infidel' taxes.)

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Boffin

FaceBook vs FaceMace

"The whole point to this story is that the weird religious types used facebook as a tool to force their oppressive views onto others."

I think the point of the line was that the weired religious types would be able to use facebook as their tool, rather than swords, maces, crude explosives, siege engines, et al.

If I had to choose, I'd opt for being oppressed via HTML rather than via a heavy sharp object to the base of the neck.

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Anonymous Coward

As opposed to ...

... Christianity's "convert or die".

I'm with the OP on this one.

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Coffee/keyboard

Obvious,

"If I had to choose, I'd opt for being oppressed via HTML rather than via a heavy sharp object to the base of the neck."

I will one day learn not to read the comments section on an article with diametrically opposite viewpoints while drinking coffee. YOMANKB

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re Crusades

> No. The Crusades were staged (initially, at least) in an effort to roll

> back Islamic military conquests in the Levant, which had subjected

> the population to Islamic rule (where non-Muslims had the choice

> to convert or pay heavy 'infidel' taxes.)

Read a real history book, dimwit.

Four hundred years is a long time to wait to 'roll back' conquests.

The Crusaders were a lot less tolerant of other religions than the Muslims.

And the tax is the equivalent of the 2.5% Muslims have to pay for the poor - so it evens the field rather than discriminates against non-Muslims.

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They rented

The place for a gig / festival / whatever and they pulled the plug 2 weeks before? Me thinks someone will be getting a big legal bill (they probably have clauses in the contract but I am sure they can be overcome.)

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Christians ... Just ask yourselves:

Which version of Creation do you believe in? The one described beginning at Genesis 1:1, or the one beginning at Genesis 2:4?

They are clearly different.

Until you can justify this difference, kindly shut the fuck up. Ta.

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For most Christians today, probably neither

The bible isn't a technical manual. Only unthinking fundamentalists and trolls like yourself would read it literally.

But congrats, you managed to read about 5 pages of the Bible and you gained 10 troll points for the achievement "Found a Contradiction in the Bible". You probably think you're the first to find one.

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

Quick tip before bible-baiting Christians the next time: use the New Testament instead. The Old Testament is about as relevant to Christian beliefs as The Silmarillion is to LOTR. See, Jesus (you know, Christ as in Christianity) doesn't feature until the New Testament, so his teachings are kinda absent in Genesis.

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Grenade

Convenient

Might I suggest that a rather large part of the US southern Christians actually believe in the literal truth of the WHOLE bible, regardless of the inconsistencies and illogicality thereof. And large parts of Africa and the east.....

I find the idea that someone thinks that Christianity as an expression of truth is fine as long as you only believe the bits of the Bible that make sense rather bizarre. You either believe the bible or you don't.

I think the fact that many Christians are dropping large parts of the Christian doctrine over time as they realise the futility of it is very telling indeed. Eventually, they will join the rest of us in the 21st century and realise that there is more to life than living it in some dreamy lie that is religious faith and actually getting out and living your life to its fullest for the right reasons, not because some deity says you should.

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They're the same?

Don't geddit? They are blatantly not contradictary.

There are a sh1t load of contradictions in there, so choose a better one, like how the gospels differ on the way Judas died.

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WTF?

er... what is your point?

not sure if I should be up-voting or down-voting you?

Are you saying that because the contradiction is in the "betamax" part of the bible it doesn't matter, and that real Christians only belive in the perfect recordings of the VHS New Testament segment? And therfore everything is okay with the bible after all????

Or, are you (I hope) saying it's all BS and it should have gone straight to DVD?

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@foo_bar_baz

"The bible isn't a technical manual."

Actually, in a way, it is. It's a carefully compiled set of codices, designed to confuse the un-educated.

"Only unthinking fundamentalists"

Careful, you'll get yourself lynched ...

"and trolls like yourself would read it literally."

Who is trolling? I read the silly thing when I was about eight years old ... and questioned the shaman "in charge" over what I saw as logical errors. I was promptly banished to a lifetime of care-free Sundays. Oh darn.

"But congrats, you managed to read about 5 pages of the Bible"

I've read it cover to cover, actually. Not only in English, but in the original Aramaic, Koin Greek, and Latin. Can you say the same?

"and you gained 10 troll points for the achievement "Found a Contradiction in the Bible". You probably think you're the first to find one."

Who is trolling? The Bible is full of errors. Always has been, always will be. This is a fact. Commentarding on this fact isn't trolling, it's (potentially) educational.

"http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm"

Who said anything about "evil"? Aren't you quick to draw conclusions ...

"Quick tip before bible-baiting Christians"

You really don't get it, do you?

"the next time: use the New Testament instead."

Can do. Did Matthew, Luke, or John get the last words of Jesus right? Why did Mark decline to comment? As a result, can any of the four Gospels be considered useful insight into the day-to-day life of Jesus, at least from the point of view of the proverbial "thinking man"?

"The Old Testament is about as relevant to Christian beliefs as The Silmarillion is to LOTR. See, Jesus (you know, Christ as in Christianity) doesn't feature until the New Testament, so his teachings are kinda absent in Genesis."

Oh. I see. You're re-writing the book in your own image ... and using pulp-fiction to justify your belief. Can you understand why this is a problem, from a logical point of view? On the bright side, you're probably helping to keep your local shaman warm, dry & in kibble. Someone has to, I guess. Carry on.

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FAIL

What a load!

Here's a quiz. Who said the following?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Give up? It was Jesus. Try reading your bible before you go telling us atheists what it says.

Oh - in case you find it hard to understand, when Jesus talks about "the law" he's talking about his holy book - what you'd call the old testament.

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Anonymous Coward

Okay You Primitive Screwheads ...

... listen up.

The spiritual point of a "god's word" or "absolute truth" is have to a fixed, known point, around which the universe can be turned.

No. You don't ever believe it to be absolutely true, you make-believe it to be so, as it makes life, language and learning a damn sight easier. Similarly, at any given moment, the current science is "true". It isn't actually true, we just pretend it is. Have we got it now? Clueless fucking fundies.

As for living life to the fullest, don't make me laugh. Try whooping up the God Void on a mountain top with your balls out and your mind so legally fucking high it hurts and no clue as the to right or wrong of anything but the aliveness of now just because you happen to fancy it might be a amusing thing to do.

All Hail Eris.

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Anonymous Coward

Contradictions

Space-time. Discrete or continuous?

Or how about wave-particle duality? Just because we now have that term, doesn't mean any of the wave-like questions were stupid or wrong.

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For most Christians today...

"The Old Testament is about as relevant to Christian beliefs as The Silmarillion is to LOTR."

Various church councils of the first millennium disagreed with you on that point and I'm not aware of any major church that has kicked the OT out of the canon. Jesus may not feature, but Christianity is not Jesus-worship. (Well, your flavour might be...)

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@John Dee

Wow, are you being sarcastic or do actually believe all that boll*cks you just spouted?

> You don't ever believe it to be absolutely true, you make-believe it to be so, ...

Erm, I beg to differ. A good few people out there Do believe it to be so and literally. Some go through the motions of believing without actually doing so because they want something mystical to cling to. I don't say they're wrong to do so though. Whatever floats your boat.

Christianity and religion is general is in a bit of a transition at the moment. You see this everywhere. I see a lot of analogs with smoking. Most people are turning away from it, but there are some die-hards who still cling to it, despite the general tide.

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Practice skepticism

The more that someone appeals to evilbible.com the more they discredit themselves as evilbible.com is saturated with fallacies of every sort and has been discredited: here is some of the evidence with a true and honest skeptic will take the time to consider:

http://www.truefreethinker.com/evilbiblecom

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FAIL

I thought they'd be all for it...

...given that the inverted cross is the symbol of St. Peter (apparently he wanted to be crucified upside down because he was not worthy, or something).

Given that Peter can be considered to be the first Pope, this is doubly ironic coming from Catholics.

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I wish we could get the same done to

piped christmas music everywhere.

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Grenade

Australia is Fucked!

Self-righteous, small minded, selfish, ball-less bastards actually make spiders living under your toilet seat seem positively cute behaviour.

Metal is the rock genre that can't die, like a roach, so the attack of the fundies won't hurt for long, but how come anti-social behaviour (persistent/driving noise pollution and parked car investigations that are both sudden and pronounced) is okay if you have an imaginary friend?

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Boffin

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately

It seems to me that we need some sort of international equivalent of Social Services, where a country can be monitored for signs of abuse (such as dictatorships), neglect (resource starved Third World countries) and the galloping crazies (where religious fundamentalists seem to have taken control). These countries would then be put into care until their governments can learn to look after them properly.

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