back to article Opera feted for playing chicken with Steve Jobs

Opera has been honored in its native Norway for the game of chicken it played with Steve Jobs. This week, as announced to the English speaking world by Opera man Haavard Moen, the browser maker was awarded a "Gullkornet," the Norwegian PR trophy, for the clever way it coaxed Steve Jobs into letting its Opera Mini browser onto …

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Anonymous Coward

however

However according to real people that I know who have iphones the Opera browser was crap on them (bad zoom ability, awful rendering, etc) they tried it out thinking "maybe this will be cool".

And for the most part the only people who'd use it would be people who used it so they could say "well it isn't apple" but then they still have an iPhone, it's like saying I'm a Christian but I don't believe in Jesus.

It may of course have improved by now, but probably not, they got their "coup" and are evidently pleased with it, offering choice even though the choice may be crap is still choice right?

Though I just read the itunes page and think this is fucking funny - on the opera mini browser

"* Language: English

* Seller: Opera Software ASA

* © Opera Software ASA

You must be at least 17 years old to download this game.

* Frequent/Intense Mature/Suggestive Themes"

You what? Oh well.

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Jobs Horns

Sorry but your religious metaphores are a bit confused...

Do you mean that using Opera in an iPhone is a sacrilege, something that middle-class people simply don't do, like wearing novelty socks in the office? Because I have difficulty following your logic...

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Chinese whispers

Crap rendering ? you know it's compressed don't you ? Oh no how could you, you don't own an iPhone but some of your "friends" do. thanks for the 3rd hand "knowledge"

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Troll

Philosophy

"they tried it out thinking "maybe this will be cool"."

Being an old fart I've out-grown comparing car/bike/phone/TV/dads around the schoolyard/office and go for value for money & suitability for purpose.

However I am curious as to how you found out the experiences of 'real' people with iphones - are you an impoverished Apple fanbois (an iphone groupie) who strikes up conversations with owners for some kind of vicarious thrill or are you surrounded by arseholes whose lives lives centre round conversations around their iphones & their latest 'apps'?

(and yes, I am aware that there are Android bores too.)

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Anonymous Coward

no

I know it's beyond the ability of the average Reg commentator to understand, but people out here in normal world have friends that happen to own things and occasionally talk about them. Shocking I know, but you should all go out and try it. The friends that is, not talking, you'd just start rambling on about your favourite browser or operating system.

We do things like talk about programs we watch, things we own, games we've played, people we've met. It's shocking, we actually go out and meet in places like pubs, we go to cinemas, restaurants, comedy shows, theatres, and other things.

And no I don't own one, but my friends are generally reliable and significantly more capable than most of you wonderful chaps. Which isn't hard.

So anyway I suggest everyone that waawed about using second hand knowledge never use second hand knowledge, as evidently if you didn't do it directly it doesn't matter (and it's second hand not third hand, you evidently failed history not knowing the difference between primary source (someone that did something e.g. used opera on an iphone) a second source (someone telling you something that they heard from a primary source) and tertiary sources (if you tell someone that you read on the reg that someone who had friends that have iphones said.)) No more reading reviews for you, and you may as well not tell anyone about things that happened to you because second hand information is neither useful nor interesting. According to you.

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Stop

Real people

My wife, who is a real person, uses an iPhone and prefers Opera to Safari. It works and is quicker than Safari, especially in areas of poor signal where the compression really helps.

Just so you know.

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Bronze badge

Frequent/Intense Mature/Suggestive Themes

You have seen the Internet, haven't you?

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Stop

I'm a commenter

and I have friends, a social life, and can hold a conversation without becoming a single issue wonk.

You, sir, are clearly somewhat confused about the "normal" world, which is the world most of us "wonderful chaps" inhabit, be we "reliable", "capable" or otherwise.

Stop patronising us, you insufferably smug git, and quit hiding behind anonymity if you're trying to make a valid point.

Which you clearly are not.

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Jobs Horns

Yes - I downloaded the internet the other day.

I have it right here beside me in this black box with the little flashing red light.

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FAIL

Uh...

...sorry, but this is a highly optimistic interpretation, at best. At worst, it's complete bullcrap.

Anyone who's been awake for the past few years will know that Apple has no problem telling companies far bigger than Opera to go fuck themselves, if they feel so inclined. Coming to the conclusion that this was a 'clever' move is stretching credibility. Opera is a flea in this game, and to pretend that there was ever even a conflict, let alone a 'victory' is obtuse in the extreme.

As a side issue, the whole 'browsing through a proxy' thing makes Opera Mini useless and downright dangerous for anything serious, like internet banking.

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Troll

The right tool for a job...

...is not the same tool for every job. Really elementary. Duh...

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FAIL

:SHOCK:

"As a side issue, the whole 'browsing through a proxy' thing makes Opera Mini useless and downright dangerous for anything serious, like internet banking."

Only an idiot would consider it.

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Anonymous Coward

our Theory

Our theory was Apple let it on to prove how rubbish other peoples browsers were.

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Ian Davies fails harder than anyone before him

Of course it was a clever move by Opera to turn it into a PR event. Those "bigger than Opera" didn't do that, so nothing really came of it, except some writing in the press.

Opera ensured that it was all over the web.

And no, Opera Mini is not at all useless. It's faster than Safari due to compression. No one is forcing you to use it for banking. But hey, keep failing.

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Grenade

Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away? </ripley>

Good to see the Anonymous Cowards and their straw man arguments out in force.

A few pointers, for the hard of understanding in this thread:

1. Most non-techy users have never even heard of Opera, and their mobile usage share is even more dismal than their desktop usage. It didn't matter what they did, and most people were oblivious to the so-called "clever" PR.

2. At no point did I say that other browsers were redundant, or that one browser served all use cases.

3. Claiming that no-one is forcing me to use Opera for banking doesn't actually rebut my point, but hey, keep diverting the argument into areas where your myopia is less obvious.

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Uneducated idiots

coincidently an iPhone user too....

All connections (including non https) are secured in Opera Mini. It's thus actually MORE secure than a conventional browser...

I use Opera Mini all the time on my Android, it's WAY better than the included webkit browser. I'm looking forward to the full Opera Mobile 10.1 on Tuesday....

And as for the pinch to zoonm gimmick, it's already out for Android and coming in a update very soon for the Jesusphone.

http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/extensions-pinch-to-zoom-and-hardware-acceleration-coming-to-opera-browsers-20101015/

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Troll

And the Golden Non Sequitur Award goes to...

Clearly it takes an uneducated idiot to point out that the issue is not in the security of the connection between the phone and Opera's proxy, but in the presence of the proxy in the first place.

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FAIL

EPIC FAIL OF THE WEEK

Opera leads the mobile browser market by quite a margin.

http://www.ithinkdiff.com/opera-still-rules-mobile-browser-market-share-worldwide-followed-by-iphone-android-at-a-distinct-6th-position-9612/

Congratulations, your ignorance earns you my EPIC FAIL OF THE WEEK award.

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Re. And the Golden Non Sequitur Award goes to...

Ok, let's try a syllogism instead then...

Premise 1 - Using a proxy for Internet banking is a bad thing

Premise 2 - Opera uses a proxy

Conclusion - Therefore using Opera TO SURF THE INTERNET is a bad thing

Nah, you were right in the first place. Let's stick with non sequiturs

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Grenade

Don't make me laugh

You're kidding, right? You're leaning on stats from a site that breaks out iPhone and iPod Touch stats as two separate browsers?

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Anonymous Coward

Opera Mini Very Innovative

Opera Mini on iPhone is a great complement to mSafari on iPhone, given it's great speed -- and cost savings if you're on a tiered 3G or EDGE data plan. I've been using it since Day 1. Sync bookmarks & typed history & search engines via Opera Link is very useful, also.

The extra Opera controls for font size are a big improvement to auto-fit the iPhone viewport, over mSafari with tiny fonts on many web sites that may force you to scroll sideways anyway; FIND-IN-PAGE, as well. Big timesaver to find a couple keywords in a long article, etc...

Looking forward to the pending Opera Mini iPhone update with pinch-to-zoom and hardware acceleration and Retina Display support.

(Don't mind the previous two comments...just frustrated & bitter Android & Firefox Mobile developers.) ;))

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Forcing Apple's hand? Right.

Let's recapitulate:

1. Opera makes an iOS native application that does not contain an HTML rendering engine, nor does it contain a JavaScript interpreter or any plug-ins; all this to avoid violating Apple's App Store policies. This application is designed to be different than the built-in Safari web browser, and to offer the distinct functionality of rendering by proxy for faster performance.

2. Opera announces to the world that they are going to submit said application to Apple and expect it to be approved.

3. Apple approves the application, just like it approves thousands of other applications that do not violate their App Store policies, and move on with the next one in line.

Am I missing something?

-dZ.

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Why then...

...has Apple changed the policies to explicitly say that web browsing must be done using the WebKit engine?

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FAIL

You are missing something

You are missing the major PR campaign Opera put in place to ensure that any outcome would be very, very public indeed.

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Yes, you're missing something.

You're missing the pre-announce campaign. Opera Software made a game where you could guess which date Opera Mini would be approved and you could win an iPhone (two people guessed the right day/hour/minute and won).

And you're forgetting "Opera Mini submitted to iPhone" news posted in websites all around the world.

Opera Mini was on Twitter's Trending Topics on the day and the day after.

After the approval it topped all the countries app download charts.

In United States the phone model Opera Mini is most used is iPhone, people continue to use it today.

Do you guys really think Opera doesn't deserves an award for applying some pressure into Apple, or at least making genious social media marketing on their product?

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Re: what pressure?

But if the device did not violate the policies, and did not run any interpreted code, what pressure did it exert on Apple? Surely it would have been approved regardless of the PR campaign, which means that it was much ado about nothing.

-dZ.

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So...

"But if the device did not violate the policies, and did not run any interpreted code, what pressure did it exert on Apple? Surely it would have been approved regardless of the PR campaign, which means that it was much ado about nothing."

I guess why it toke a much longer time than other apps to get approved...?

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FAIL

Pressure

"Surely it would have been approved regardless of the PR campaign"

Not necessarily.

Apple is known to reject apps for no good reason.

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Alert

The answer.

Opera ensured that they wouldn't be silently rejected like so many others.

And setting a new record for downloads WHEN it was approved, shows the level of interest garnered.

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WTF?

Opera exerted pressure?

And here I thought they got into the App Store because they:

1. Played by all Apple's rules.

2. Offered a unique feature that mobile Safari didn't have.

I guess we'll never really know. It's nice to have a second browser on my phone, even if I never use it.

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Go

And the award goes to ... the person with connections in the EU.

I'm sure the EU making noise about investigating the iPhone had nothing to do with it, Jobs even backed down on some of his more extreme plans for developers and what tools they could use.

Opera may have faced them down but it was the shadow of a large EU fine that really had them running scared.

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FAIL

You are clearly clueless

Opera is based in Norway, which is not a member of the EU.

Even worse for your ignorant rant, Apple is not a convicted monopolist.

Nice try, though. But ultimately, your ignorance made you fail as always.

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FAIL

No, *you* are clearly clueless.

"Opera is based in Norway, which is not a member of the EU."

Didn't stop 'em being the most vocal plaintiff to the EU over the windows-ships-with-IE business.

"...Apple is not a convicted monopolist."

Funnily enough, MS were not a convicted monopolist until their manipulation of the market was invetigated, resulting in a conviction. Funnily enough, the big fat hairy deal here was working to exclude/disadvantage competitors' products running on their OS..........

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FAIL

Xenophobic bigots

"Didn't stop 'em being the most vocal plaintiff to the EU over the windows-ships-with-IE business."

Wrong. Mozilla was the most vocal, by far. An American company. Along with Google. Another American company.

Your xenophobic nonsense would have been almost funny, if it hadn't been so pathetically bigoted.

"Funnily enough, MS were not a convicted monopolist until their manipulation of the market was invetigated, resulting in a conviction."

Actually, they were. But how is any of this relevant?

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Anonymous Coward

Battery life

Being an occasional user of Opera Mini on a Nokia feature phone, I would expect it to have positive ramifications for battery life on the iPhone too.

Personally I don't find the zooming too onerous. You just have to remember it's different from the way Firefox and Safari do zooming. The images scale by the same amount as the text and the tables unless you're fitting the page to the width of the screen in which case it makes the best compromise. Works nice on a phone without a native horizontal scroll control.

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Anonymous Coward

Technology aside...

...why are the people in the front row of that photo (if not all of 'em) cardboard cutouts?

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Alien

Overblown as usual by the fanbois

So I thought, this is controversial, isn't it? Lets test it and see what the fuss is about.

So I installed Opera mini on my iPad and my gf's iphone and tested it. Guess what? Its fine.

On wifi its slower than my preferred iOS browser (iCab mobile - safari's for clueless losers).

On 3G it's the actually quite a bit faster - pages took a few seconds then suddenly popped into view fully formed.

Images looked fine (for the geniuses who didn't figure this out - there's a settings control where you can set image quality on "high").

I was hoping to actually post from it but I got a response "your browser sent a request that this server did not understand" :-) Clearly Opera's proxy system did not get along with El Reg's webserver.

Still this simply points out the veracity of the "right tool for the job" comment above. Clearly its not intended as a permanent safari replacement, but when you're roaming or on a capped or slow 3G connection, its just the thing to check out a few news articles. Clearly, you wouldn't waste your bandwidth arguing with fanboi's on these forums;-)

On my iPad it worked fine with FullForce, the Jailbreak app that enables iPhone apps to work full screen.

Roswell alien because that's what I feel like when surrounded by Cupertino's worshipers...

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Jobs Horns

Opera Mini isn't a web browser

It's more like a terminal client for a web browsing service. It is more akin to WAP than the web, considering some stuff won't even load (like this very page, for instance!) and even the the pages that do work (admittedly the majority) sometimes have their URLs mismatched.

It's still useful however. Data isn't cheap.

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FAIL

WAP? You are insane

Opera Mini is nothing like WAP. It's the exact opposite. WAP is a limited walled garden. Opera Mini lets you access full web sites.

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Coat

So what, big deal . . .

. . . you still live in Norway! Out here where it isn't snowing we are too busy swimming to talk on the phone.

Better get my coat, we're going to Norge.

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it's like saying I'm a Christian but I don't believe in Jesus

this is a valid comparison for using a phone to surf the web?

it's how you feel about using a phone?

really?

don't you worry about your mind?

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Silver badge

A Small Question

I went to the Android Market to try out Opera Mini. The installer told me that it accesses various things (as expected) but also that it has the ability to make phone calls.

Is this a misunderstanding, in that it has the ability to access the mobile data link (as any internet app needs to do), or can the Opera Mini browser really make phone calls from my phone?

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'tel:' links?

I'm not certain but this may be down to the phone interpreting 'tel:' links. These mobile browser links allow the linked phone number to be punched straight into your phones' dialpad.

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Happy

It's not just an iPhone thing...

Obviously, it was a lot easier to get onto the Android market, but the technology behind it is the same. Personally, I prefer the stock browser (especially since it does Flash now), but my wife prefers Opera Mini. Among other useful features, you can sync your phone and desktop browsers, so when she bookmarks a page on her phone, it's available on her desktop (we both use Opera for our desktop browser).

As far as I can tell, Opera Mini really is faster than the stock browser, though not as much on a fast connection, ie our wifi. It's amazing with huge pages; the stock browser bogs down after a while, but Opera Mini keeps on going. Heavily scripted pages load much faster, too, and the scripts tend to work better in Opera (while not all scripts work, the vast majority of useful ones do). The biggest downside is that it can't surf my internal network's website; not a downside to my wife, who doesn't use it, but a big enough hole that I'll opt for the stock Android browser for now. At least until Opera Mobile for Android comes out...

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Grenade

Opera - the Browser.

It's the neanderthal interface that gives me the shits. Another idiot system only used by the people who designed it - which leaves most other people either frustrated or scratching their heads.

As much as Firefox and the Mozilla foundation - and their money grubbing bullshit - of taking revenue from advertising and then declaring them selves to be a "community project" with lots of volunteer numbskulls - and their "hope for the best" opinions....

Well Firefox and it's crap programming and seizing up for an hour or more at a time - running at 100% CPU etc..., when it's not doing that - it's my browser of choice.

But Opera.... it's designed by idiots who just don't get it, that javascript blocking and add blocking and and and and - having an EASY to use functional interface to configure the settings is necessary.

But Opera's retarded controls, of blocking everything instead of just one thing etc... or not blocking anything at all... and and and and - then putting that on a phone with a tiny interface...

Please - may I slash YOUR wrists?

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