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Steve Jobs announced today what he suggested was a marriage of iOS with Mac OSX. Called Mac OS X Lion, the next version of the Mac's operating system will bring iOS features to the Mac, including bringing the App Store — and, possibly, its limitations — to the Mac. Jobs told his "Back to the Mac" audience at the company's …

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Jobs Horns

Lion or Turkey....

Apple apes KDE.

But costs so much more, allows so much less and will be salivated on by the 'look at me' masses.

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

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FAIL

Apple apes KDE, an poem

Steve Jobs is a massive wanker, true,

But if you think the flow of concepts,

flows out, instead of inwards,

For KDE, then so are you.

Bless you young'ns, I remember when KDE was copying Windows.

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Flame

I certainly hope not

Seriously, I had fond memories of KDE 3.x on Mandrake and tried Kubuntu 9.04. With KDE 4.x - what an abomination that is. I guess I just don't "get" widgets.

So... stuck on Gnome on Ubuntu. Gnome's not my fave, but at least not a total developer wankgasm with 0 usability, like KDE 4. Almost as "clever" as the Office 2007 ribbon.

Guess I could try to push in KDE 3.x but that seems hardly worth the bother unless distributions actually revert back to 3.x.

yup, can predict some major downvotes on this one.

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Thumb Up

Perfect!

You get my upvote purely for that wonderful expression, "total developer wankgasm"! Pure genius!

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Boffin

Re: Lion or Turkey....

Turkey, please! Oh right...

"Apple apes KDE."

Apple apes XFCE, actually, or rather CDE: "It's the launcher bar at the bottom but *shiny*!"

You could say that Apple apes RISC OS, but RISC OS's icon bar was more oriented towards disks and running tasks than launchers.

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Jobs Horns

Finally lost the plot

I was watching the keynote. Ilife utterly failed to impress. Certainly not a "must have". As to Lion, well it may be too early to say, but from what I've seen, it could well be a backwards step. The MacbookAirs? did you notice the silence when the price was revealed? $999 for a crippled laptop? No doubt £999+ in the UK. I like OS X, I use Snow Leopard every day on a Mac Pro, but all these things like Apps stores for Macs, just seem another way to sell more stuff. If IWorks becomes an app, that can be downloaded, what features will go? Will the price drop as there is no physical product? Nope? Didn't think so. For once I'm totally unimpressed, I started to get miffed when it was all IPhone and IPad, all the Mac sites focus on them. To me they are just toys. There are so many things that could be refined, improved in 10.6.4, but it seems they will jump to another set of code. Not happy. I must be getting old, happy not to update, stick with what I have.

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MacBookAir prices

quite the surprise, there is not a USA$--GB£ 1:1 price ratio.

http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_air

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WTF?

UK pricing

If you'd take a moment to look at the Apple eStore (iStore?), you'll see that the price for the entry MB Air is £849, same as the entry MacBook.

And what's wrong with "another way to sell more stuff" - isn't that what Apple are in business to do?

Finally, are you expecting what they showed last night to be everything that's in Lion? I'd very much doubt it - this was a preview of some of the press-grabbing features. Which is what Steve said.

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If IWorks becomes an app, that can be downloaded, what features will go?

I'd suggest none. Most full programs can be downloaded these days, and just cos you download MS Office, for example, rather than buy it from a shop, that doesn't mean the dictionary is only half the size, or you only have half of the fonts, or can't create tables in Word.

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WTF?

Can we please lay this myth to rest...

...of $1 = £1 pricing? It may have been more common 10+ years ago, but I can't think of a single product more recently that has been priced this way. And I'm not just talking about Apple products, but pretty much anything.

(That said, given the way the GBP and our VAT rates are heading, we may well see a return of $1=£1 in future)

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Anonymous Coward

"he made no mention of whether non-curated apps would remain available through traditional channels"

I'm pretty sure I heard Jobs say "The App Store will be a great place – but not the only place – to buy apps", or something along those lines, suggesting that developers will be free to sell applications through their established channels without having to fork over 30% to Cupertino for the privilege of being able to annoy people by automatically shoving applications into their Dock. Auto-updates are nice, but why not just open Software Update to third parties?

Overall, the Lion presentation was pretty weak. Wooh, Spaces/Exposé/Dashboard rethought because it's become a mess of overlapping paradigms that needs to be tidied up. Wooh, auto-save for applications that don't already do it (got that Time Machine drive plugged in to capture the good version of your file that's about to get overwritten?). Signs are that there's a UI overhaul waiting in the wings to be revealed closer to launch, but there wasn't enough meat on the Lion today.

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Boffin

I just got a line..

"Dashboard rethought because it's become a mess of overlapping paradigms"

Full house before the night's out..

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Jobs Horns

non-curated apps

While I think I am beginning to understand why the man does what he does, I think he would be very foolish indeed to lock down the Mac the way he's done the iPhones.

There are those of us who are extremely critical of Apple who bought macs anyway.

Why? For some we see that despite the eye candy and hoopla, underneath that facade beats the heart of quite a usable 'nix. And, by and large their lappies aren't half bad. Pricey, but aren't half bad. I am personally relatively platform agnostic.

Jobs, you screw around with the way we currently use our macs, and I promise you, this is going to be the last mac I ever use.

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Jobs Horns

30% to Cupertino

Just a comment on this.

I am not saying I like it but there's something to be said for paying someone to look after the headache of distribution. Especially if you're a particularly small shop. It just may look like the way to go for some.

But I'd read the fine print on who owns what eventually.

And be very wary about the capricious nature of the store minders in deciding what is allowed and what is not.

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Not the only place

" "The App Store will be a great place – but not the only place – to buy apps", or something along those lines, "

Yes, I heard this too.

And many big, important apps wouldn't meet the App Store requirements. The App Store is for relatively little apps. The Adobe CS5s, the Matlabs, the Mathematicas, the Microsoft Offices and loads of other software are going to continue to be distributed the same way as ever.

Anything with loadable code plugins, custom licensing or security systems, etc, isn't going to go through the App Store. Drivers, kernel extensions, VMWare, things that you need to install as root, aren't going to go through the App Store.

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Jobs Horns

Don't destroy the Mac.

Yes, as others have intimated: I might not personally agree with everything that Apple does these days but the Mac still seems like a much better commercial consumer platform than Windows. It avoids all of the pitfalls of Windows without being a "garden of pure ideology". This can be useful for those of us that are not totally clueless.

Don't destroy the Mac. I want an other option I can suggest to people I know that insist on running Windows for whatever reason.

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WTF?

I'd be Lion if I said I was impressed

Mission Control and Launch Pad - that's the demo for a major revision?!? Will QuickTime X be extended? Will the iTunes threading bugs be fixed? Will very large amounts of hard disk and RAM be used more efficiently? Will SSD replace spinning swap? Will there every be API support outside Objective-C?

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Anonymous Coward

It's a 'sneak peek', not a release

Quicktime, threading, HD and RAM use, and API support are of great interest to developers and those with a tech bent, but that wasn't the audience Jobs was trying to reach. If he'd talked about that, I can guarantee most eyes would be glazed over in minutes. The bulk of his audience was engaged, and that was the whole point. The finished product is probably 9 months off yet - this presentation was just a taste.

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Very user-focused demo

This was all user/consumer level. Normally, the technical stuff, if any, would have been discussed at WWDC. Some might have been mentioned among the iOS material at WWDC.

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API support outside Objective-C?

What, Python, Ruby, and Objective-C++ aren't good enough?

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FAIL

@ previous comments

Remember, this is a company for whom 100 minor bug fixes and irrelevant new features constituted a major mobile OS revision...

Face it, apple have all but given up on "the most advanced operating system in the world" and I say that writing on a mac castrated to openGL 2.1 by negligence...

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Badgers

Um...

**and irrelevant new features **

Irrelevant to whom?

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Silver badge

You're all missing the big picture

With the new iTunes store on the Mac, you'll be able to get 10,000 fart apps for your Mac too!

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Jobs Horns

Indeedy

but sadly.......... no wobbly boobs apps!!!

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No wobbly boobs

Well it is obvious you don't have a MacBook as they all have an accelerometer in it and they already exist.

Me I am mature, I prefer to have lightsaber fights with my MacBook :-)

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Anonymous Coward

Security?

Wonder if new "apps" on the Mac will be sandboxed in a similar way to iPhone apps.

Otherwise, buying/downloading/installing many apps on a Mac could quickly devolve into a giant mess. Think Windows...

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Something like that...

It's something like that. You're supposed to stay in ~/Library/... except when the user does a Save As to save a file somewhere else.

They probably have some way to check your app.

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Plummeting app prices

While I'm psyched about being able to distribute apps via the app store, I think we can assume prices are going to plummet to iPhone app levels, for the most part.

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Would that be such a bad thing...

...if it meant people buying a lot more apps than they otherwise would have? Lower prices and easier access will probably bring in much greater revenues than developers currently get from Mac software sales (aside from the big guys of course).

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App store's a good thing IMHO

It's about time there was a central place to go to browse and download software. Sure, there's google, shareware.com, versiontracker, but the sheer convenience of the iPhone/iPad app store has been great.

As a customer, I like the idea of being able to download an app from that place with some confidence that it's, errm, genuine.

I don't expect Apple to create the walled garden of the iPhone/iPad -- they can't as one can simply install apps from anywhere. But I do like the idea of telling numpties that the only place they can get apps is from the app store and having a good chance that they'll listen.

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Jobs Horns

We'll see how it goes...

I'm pretty sure His Steve is trying to get more control over OS X to funnel more money into his pockets, maybe by 10.9 we'll have mandatory app signing if the user gets programs from outside the App Store for their own safety, locking out most freeware/open source...

(Your commentard correctly called the complementary App Store by the way... http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2010/04/26/jobs_squelches_mac_app_store_rumor/#c_750245 )

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Linux

Finally, eh?

"It's about time there was a central place to go to browse and download software. Sure, there's google, shareware.com, versiontracker, but the sheer convenience of the iPhone/iPad app store has been great."

You mean like on...erm...*cough*...

...Linux?

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Linux

Re-inventing Unix badly.

> It's about time there was a central place to go to browse and download software.

You mean like Debian apt-get that was available 10 years ago?

Until Quicktime can do what Totem does on Ubuntu I will remain unimpressed. That is the real potential of a centralized package manager. Replacing well mannered Internet download sites is not terribly interesting.

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FAIL

A title is required, but I am busy facepalming

"Until Quicktime can do what Totem does on Ubuntu I will remain unimpressed."

What, be a big wobbly pile of poorly documented, obfuscated things held together by a hidden morass of almost human unreadable parameters?

Totem, and the stuff underlying it, are *horrible*,

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Linux

hell yeah

Like Linux, except even easier to use, prettier and with paid, professional applications.

I know Ubuntu has a paid application as well (see what I did there) and will readily confess that this is one of the main features which I have coveted from Linux for a while.

Somebody mentioned "like debian has had for 10 years"..

Well... yeah, kinda, sorta...

The full APT-get (or Synaptic if you want to use something graphical) isn't really all that nice and usable. Sure, it is REALLY flexible and twenty five colours of awesome, but it's neither nice nor easily usable for novices (or pointy haired bosses who might otherwise buy your application) mainly due to it being quite cluttered and confusing with less than helpful explanations (is this a program or a library? Which version of what do I take. Crap, I need to...).

Ubuntu software center is almost amazingly good, they just need one or two more versions to take it to incredible quality, and Linux in general is just getting to pretty nice to use for most day-to-day tasks.

But Apple will steal the thunder...

Tux 'cause Linux ain't all that bad

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Anonymous Coward

Oh, that is nice....

Apples have finally gotten package repositories...

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Yeah but

They are implemented in a so much more user friendly way than most Linux repositories.

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Stop

Open package manager

Decide what you're looking for, type it into the search box. Up pops a package. Hit install, few warnings about other required packages, download packages, bang- it's installed and, where applicable, has an entry on whatever you call the start menu in Linux.

Want another repository (like the third-party app stores on iPhone/Android)? Go "Add Repository" and type/paste in the address of the repository.

Yeah, it's a real brain buster. No-one'll ever find their way around that...

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same here

I thought the same here: "wow, Apple re-invented the Linux package manager ?"

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Linux

It's all about knowing what you want.

> They are implemented in a so much more user

> friendly way than most Linux repositories.

You must be joking.

Even with the much overhyped Apple iStore I still have to wade through a bunch of dreck to get to something useful. I will likely not find what I am looking for or something worth having without going to an outside source for recommendations.

H*ll, I get more useful information HERE about what's in the App Store.

Both provide a simple means to install something once you realize it's what you want. If you can't call it by name, then the "store" interface probably won't help you.

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Jobs Halo

App store

This is an opportunity for small developers to get their apps noticed my people who would not normally find them. There must be throusands of little apps, some more useful than others, that are only available through the Kagi Store, MacUpdate or Download.com. If you don't happen upon a review in a magazine, you wouldn't know about them. They are generally freeware or low cost and bundling them together in an App Store seems like a good idea to me. The low price will be counteracted by volume and I'd rather have 70% or 10000 sales than 100% of 100!

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Thumb Up

App store

The best thing about an app store is what it brings in terms of updates, and if they have such things, dependency control. It will be like synaptic and apt rolled together, but prettier, and with the ability to charge.

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Updates

Between Apps which auto-update with Sparkle framework and the App Update Desktop widget, you've generally got updating covered.

Updating isn't a problem, it's all about the cash.

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FAIL

ROAR - i'm the mighty lion....

quite possibly, the worst codename for osx so far.....wot next - 10.8 'slightly aggressive ginger tom'

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Joke

Lion

Yeah, but when they write the music for the commercials it'll be the king of the jingles.

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yeah, but

If it all goes pear shaped, they'll be able to say that you made your bed, now there's a lion in it.

-A.

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Black Helicopters

Applecalypse Now

'all apps will be fullscreen'

Why do they say this as if it's a good thing? Are they trying to un-invent windows (after they created the idea in the first place). Next they will try and un-invent multi-tasking.

I still think the end game is a neutered desktop experience where all apps have to be blessed by Apple. Obviously they are not going to do this now as current mac developers would scream, but if the app store for the mac becomes dominant it will be a matter of time before they start building a wall around the garden.

The precedent has been set in the mobile world and if anyone is capable of bringing it to the desktop world by packaging a removal of user rights with some shiny new bling features and a sprinkling of PR pixie dust it's apple (unfortunately).

In 10 years we might look back with fondness on the windows era - when you could install whatever software you wanted on your desktop computer.

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Ed
WTF?

Did they say that?

I don't remember them saying that? I thought Steve explicitly said that sometimes fullscreen was good, sometimes it wasn't.

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WTF?

"created the idea"

Apple created the idea of windows? I'm sure the developers who worked at Xerox PARC will be delighted to hear this particular revision of history.

Contrary to the dogma of the Cult of Jobs, the fruit factory are not some kind of creative, idea generation Mecca, rather they are masters of packaging, marketing and productising other people's ideas. And they are very good at that indeed, so I am sure that this re-branding of software repositories (similar to those used by other OSes for well over a decade) will succeed.

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Baffled

It baffles me that anyone could downvote this post...it's undeniable truth.

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