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back to article Kiss frontman gives file-sharers tongue-lashing

Kiss frontman Gene Simmons is a strict dad and it seems he has applied his “now school” approach to illegal file-sharers on the web, for whom he reserves zero mercy. Simmons gave his stark views of P2P pirates at the MIPCOM shindig in Cannes. "Make sure your brand is protected. Make sure there are no incursions. Be litigious. …

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Anonymous Coward

Kiss

Mmm, never felt the need to download any Kiss material, (although I did see them at Monsters of Rock when I was a freckle-faced kid, and thought they were quite good. Ah, the delusion of youth), but might do now just to irritate them further.

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Pirate

Loading newsleeecher....

I was thinking exactly the same thing as I clicked "post comment".

Not exactly a lost sale but definitely the middle finger.

AARGH.

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Grenade

Not even then...

Sorry, but I only vaguely (as a kid) recall Peter Criss being any good, and hadn't bothered with KISS since he left. Why would I bother now?

Then again, I'm thinking that this whole hate-the-P2P kick may just be an ill-advised marketing move. Well that, or Mssr. Simmons is casting about for reasons why his albums aren't selling worth a damn, and settled on P2P being the answer (as opposed to the fact that his music is a trip through 1970's gimmick-laden schlock that no one wants - at least not outside of the balding Camaro-driving demographic).

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Anonymous Coward

Clarification needed

"illegal file-sharers" - is it illegal to share files at all now? Or does it mean sharers of illegal files? But surely that would cover only extreme porn and terror related stuff and not Kiss songs, no matter how awful?

Puzzled.

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FAIL

F**k You Gene

Put out some decent music, you talentless hack.

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Anonymous Coward

Hear hear!

...nothing more to say, really. Bullet ... meet foot.

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Anonymous Coward

(utnitled)

Seems to be the expected rant from an, "I'm on the gravy train, you lot have to keep filling it", type of individual. Ah if only I got paid forever for something I worked on for an hour or two in the past. I'd retire today.

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Go

Go on then

> Ah if only I got paid forever for something I worked on for an hour or two in the past. I'd retire today.

Go on then. Nobody is stopping you. Get writing.

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Anonymous Coward

I don't see why he cares.

It's not like you can download all the shitty merchandise he's been trying to peddle for years is it?

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Silver badge

Not so much stuck on repeat..

... more a case of he has views that he believes in and sticks with. Not a concept most web hacks would be familiar with.

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Flame

Indeed.

Being able to assimilate new data and change your position based upon it is a real curse. I envy those who can just decide which position is most advantageous for them and then shutter their minds to new ideas. Must be such pleasant and simple life.

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FAIL

Not familiar with?

Look around and the number of idiotic, religious fucktards on the interweb before making such a comment outloud...

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FAIL

Aah, the old lie

"The music industry was asleep at the wheel and didn't have the balls to sue every fresh-faced, freckle-faced college kid who downloaded material. And so now we're left with hundreds of thousands of people without jobs. There's no industry," said Simmons.

Recorded Music volume by year for the US, with projections, in million units:

Year Units

2005: 1301

2006: 1583

2007: 1774

2008: 1852

2009: 1931

2010: 2012 (projected)

2011: 2093 (projected)

2012: 2177 (projected)

Source: Recording Industry Association of America

Looks like a strictly monotonic increasing sequence to me Gene.

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Grenade

Not what he means?

What he's really on about is that his income has dropped and is so far up his own arse he thinks it's 'cos people are downloading for free instead of paying for the same bollocks that came out from Kiss when they started.

No, Gene, it's merely because you've been found out to be a bunch of limited musicians who only have the make-up and posing to go on. That and the idea that what you call 'rock' is just bog-standard industry offal.

Gene, go and read the lyrics to Robbie Williams' 'Kids' - now stop moaning, you're filthy rich as it is.

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Epic fail

Now I know how freetards get their name. Their brains can't compute.

A piece of recorded music is exactly what it says it is. When music came on bits of plastic it was a single piece of plastic. When it's a digital file, it's a digital file. With albums being unbundled, tracks are available now for individual download, so the number of units available for sale has increased.

But the revenue has declined - in the US from $14.6 billion in 1999 to $6.3 billion in 2009, according to Forrester.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/02/news/companies/napster_music_industry/

But that would spoil your re-tarded argument, so you don't quote it? You have failed on a quite Epic scale.

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Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics

Yes, yes yes. We know all of this.

However, with the advent of do it yourself recordings more gobsheit than ever before s being released. The fact that it's released doesn't mean that people are going to actually earn a living from it. Totally the opposite. Too much content and nothing worth the money.

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Stop

Nah mate, you're wrong

I think the income from games has increased at the same rate the music has declined. People are just more choosy with music now - that could affect Kiss.

People also want new music. By the way, where can I buy second hand quality music files? Or is it a con?

I don't download, why bother when spotify has such a good catalogue.

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 16:21 I wonder.. could this..

Have anything to do with, oh I dunno:

1) Crap music being massproduced so that the only choice given is the one given to you

2) Suing your customer base - even 11 year old girls and grannies that don't have computers - for being enthusiastic about your music?

3) More and more artists going for concerts as their main revenue streem

4) Technology that you crapped on working better than your dinosaurial brains thought it would.

What you don't get is that the very argument you make about paying the artist, the poor poor artist - is that you're the ones stealing from them. The obsession with their outdated business model that pays the artist cents on the dollar is at risk if digital becomes popular

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Unbundling

There is another effect of the unbundling that could explain some of that drop in revenue - The way we buy music has changed. Now we can pick individual tracks we are less likely to buy an entire album which only contains three or four good songs and a load of filler..

I am not suggesting that piracy is not a significant factor, but it's not the only factor.

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@ Epic fail

Right,

So what you are saying is people no longer have to buy an album just to get the one good song.

Sounds like musicians should get off their asses and make decent albums if they want to make more money from the digital age. Not just flog 11 crap song with each good song and expect people to pay for it.

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Happy

Re: AC Epic Fail

You mean I don't have to buy the whole shitty album any more, I can just buy the 2 decent tracks I like! And it costs me less money! Wow!

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Anonymous Coward

and yet...

Revenues or profits have declined. Because, when you sell a down-loadable piece of music, you don't have to pay a bunch of wage slaves to make the plastic case, cd's, or liner notes. You don't pay for the press machines, printers, lighting, buildings, gas, truck rental, truck drivers, sales clerks, raw materials to make the cd's... as opposed to the cheaper servers, web-hosting, and web-masters. That's not including the promoters, lawyers, accountants and musicians you'd need anyways. Music is not a business with a slim profit margin.

I don't recall having entered into a contract with the artist not to steal their music (I own a couple KISS cd's out of a collection 1500+ of legally purchased cd's) nor have they entered into a contract with me not to overcharge me for their crap. They have as much obligation to pay some sweat shop workers in China U.S. minimum wage as I do to pay the inflated price they sell it for in the states. They don't get any sympathy because they haven't earned it. No one feels bad about stealing from them because they're overcharging to begin with. We can't properly fund our schools, but Gene Simmons can cry crocodile tears about making a few c-notes less a year and I'm supposed to feel sorry for the guy.

And as for Gene owning the food and air... he'll see how that philosophy of his plays out when he needs his kids' help when he gets older. He may have to pay for it since he's acting like a chode.

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Silver badge

unbundled

"With albums being unbundled, tracks are available now for individual download, so the number of units available for sale has increased."

With albums you often get two tracks, and a bunch of steaming crap to fill up space.

With unbundling you can just buy the two tracks, cutting the record companies revenue. They can no longer make you buy crap to get what you want.

Kiss had quite a few pop hits, someone who wants "Beth" is not going to want the Rock that fills the rest of the album (even the few that are not crap).

If you only buy the tracks you like there is no need to buy a "greatest hits" album as you already have your own version (I think Kiss had about 12 different versions). More lost (can't sell you the same crap again) revenue.

The boom from everyone rebuying the same stuff on CD is over. SACD and Audio DVD did not give them another boom of people buying the same stuff again (since they tanked).

But it's much easier to blame the "free-tards" who never buy anything anyway, and would not buy Kiss greatest hits volume 13 even if you took away their internet.

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Alternative interpretation

When you change from selling albums to selling tracks, two things are likely to happen. Unit sales will go up (because the item is cheaper) and revenue will go down (because most people only buy the best tracks).

Both these effects are predictable, and the fact they have happened tells us nothing either way about piracy.

Switching from tangible CDs to MP3s also makes the whole process of buying music less exciting. When I was young I could afford one album a month, so I thought very carefully about which one I would buy, and scoured the shops to try to find the best price.

Paying the price of a coke for an MP3 you've heard a thousand times on the radio isn't the same. Maybe some people have just stopped bothering. It isn't as if there aren't plenty of other things to spend your money on these days.

I'm not saying that piracy has had no effect, but falling revenues alone tell you nothing.

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Stop

"Major recording artists" time to grow a pair

Any "huge" recording artist who still in this day and age allows themselves to be financially raped by the major record labels has no right to moan about the state of the industry if you ask me. It's time some of them started growing a pair and ditched the record labels. They would earn more from record sales too if they own their own publishing rights, plus what we all think of as big artists probably make more from tours anyway so some in theory could give all there songs away for free and just exploit them financially for things like use in TV, films, adverts, games and compilation albums.

I know of few people who have had songs signed to major labels who have been totally screwed by them. Imagine finding out 10 or 15 years after your top ten hit was released in the UK and Europe that it was actually also a a top ten tune in Japan but never even being told by your record company that it was even released over there let alone being paid the royalties!

Also I find it incredible that recording contracts are even enforceable, they essentially force a person to work for one company only until a certain amount of work is complete.

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Anonymous Coward

"revenue has declined in the US from $14.6 billion in 1999 to $6.3 billion in 2009"

Funny that there seems to have been a recession in that time. Or did you record executards happen to miss that one?

I also find it quite amusing that the record industry is constantly wheeling out it's "poor" sales figures as if there's some innate reason why I should care. What do you want me to do? Play you a song on my tiny violin? I don't care what your sales figures are. Save it for your shareholders because, and I think I speak for everyone, nobody else cares.

This is a world where people often have to beg for food and water. And you wonder why no one listens to your pleas for an extra $billion. Why should they? What's in it for them? The warm sense of satisfaction you get from giving money to someone a lot richer than yourself?

I don't care if the music industry collapses (which of course it never will but let's just play into your paranoid fantasies for a second), because all the good music has already been released. All we have now is this race to the bottom to see who can use the most dynamic range compression, the most autotune, the shittiest most hollow lyrics. You end up with music that's not just physically painful to listen to, but bad for your mental health as well.

Back in the day you got a band to stand together in a room, mic'd up, and they'd play you a fucking song. You might do a couple of takes but whatever they played by the end of the day is what went on the track. That way, only real musicians ever made it as far as the recording studio. Only decent equipment and high quality instruments were used by anybody who wanted to make music that didn't sound like a shit sandwich being scraped down a blackboard.

Now every band member is recorded separately, like a fucking police interrogation, and the soul of what they play is sucked out and perverted as just another raw material that needs to be digitally enhanced by clueless marketing people.

Of course, digital editing makes amazing things possible, but it also makes it possible for the clueless and the inbred to make "music" in half an afternoon with no effort or talent. And you record industry hacks are shipping in the inbred by the boatload. All you really want is a weak disgusting person who you can easily mold in your image and market in force. Lady Gaga anyone?

/ end rant /

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@leakyPC

>>"So what you are saying is people no longer have to buy an album just to get the one good song."

I rather took what they were saying more as a suggestion that 'units' alone aren't necessarily the best measure when the case seemed to be Simmons claiming the sky was presumably financially] falling, and another person replying that he must be wrong because unit sales had increased.

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WTF?

Spot on

When we replaced the best of our old worn vinyl with CD's, I don't recall getting a credit for having bought the IP twice. When my teenage son buys some of those same tracks from the iTunes store (he would never assume Dad's extensive CD collection had anything worth playing), I have paid a third time. So it seems a bit rich to hear these guys whine about how they're being ripped off.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/kid-rock-starves-to-death,342/

Especially when they (e.g. Garth Brooks) think they are due a 2nd payment upon resale.

And then we must consider the source: Kiss? Garth? Meh. I am reminded of George Carlin's assertion that the 'women against abortion are the ones you wouldn't want to f*ck anyway'. True? Not IMHO. Sexist? Sure. But funny none the less....

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@AC 14:27

>>"When we replaced the best of our old worn vinyl with CD's, I don't recall getting a credit for having bought the IP twice."

How much of a credit would you have expected?

When you bought the original album, how much of what you paid was actually for the IP, rather than the production cost, shipping, wholesaling, retailing, (all those including a profit margin for someone), sales taxes on the retail price, etc?

Though I'm not sure what the figures would have been, I do wonder if after subtracting the cost of administering a refund for old media, dealing with the returned items, etc in a scheme that would likely have to run for some time, the end result would have been something that many people would be happy with?

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FAIL

Kiss this..

Useless piss ant...I wouldn't illegally download any crud from Kiss if he paid me.

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min

i think i might just have to..

..download some of their music now. then delete it because i would not want to take shit out of his kids' mouths. or did i misread his statements?

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Coffee/keyboard

Most exellent comment

YOMANK

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Anonymous Coward

Lol

I don't think Kiss have to worry about kids downloading their music

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Nothing worth buying, or downloading

Haven't bought music since Phish as I haven't heard anything worth buying, Or worth downloading. Currently have "iTunes DJ" well tuned to my likes. When not near iPod or computer then Classic Vinyl on XM/Sirius suits my tastes.

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Boffin

Thanks for sharing

Now list what you had for lunch.

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1 strike!

Because downloading this arse bilge is the one crime that you really should be taken off the internet for.

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Bronze badge

Seems he's stuck on repeat.

Bit like the pap him and his band churned out, you wouldn't notice a scratch on the vinyl for hours.

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FAIL

Sounds like...

...his parenting is as shit as his music.

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Stop

Sell out

So, it's OK to be a strict authoritarian and voice your views on extreme parenting (not friends, just parents - get real!) and file sharing what, at some point in the past, may have been OK music, before selling out and jumping on every fecking re-emergence bandwagon you can find - Tony Hawk's for crying out loud! Best thing they ever did was appear in an episode of Family Guy!

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Anonymous Coward

My heart breaks....

"The music industry was asleep at the wheel and didn't have the balls to sue every fresh-faced, freckle-faced college kid who downloaded material. And so now we're left with hundreds of thousands of people without jobs."

Moronic quote of the week?

I'm sad to hear about the supposed 'hundreds of thousands of people without jobs'. Although I assume Gene could probably afford to give each of them $50 for their troubles and still have plenty left in the Simmons family bank for him to swim around in.

Maybe I'm asking to much for him to address the imbalance in earnings between a talentless hack like himself and the people who do the real work.

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WTF?

orly?

this rant from the man who's son blatantly plagiarized tite kubo's manga. perhaps he should pay attention to what goes on in his own family before lambasting others.

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Anonymous Coward

No-one downloads Kiss

The reason Kiss' revenue has dropped is really simple - they haven't got any new material.

They have umpteen compilation albums - and it's all the same old stuff. Everyone who wants it has already got it. Changing the order on the CD doesn't magically make it new and interesting.

Anonymous, because I once bought the entire discography when in a Kiss cover band. I'm still embarrassed, and I'm still regretting it.

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Anonymous Coward

Sonic Boom

Well, Sonic Boom was well received last year and there's another new album due 2011. I in no way condone what Gene was saying but then I doubt Paul Stanley does either! They're kind of fire and ice these days. (Possibly with Derek Smalls as Lukewarm water).

They still put on an amazing live show.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gavmiller#p/a/u/1/cgoA0CUv9hc

"Billboard has compiled its 2010 Money Makers top 40 list with KISS coming in at No. 34 with $11,833,930 in revenue: "Kiss spent 2009 on the road promoting its highest-charting album, the Walmart exclusive 'Sonic Boom,' which debuted at No. 2 on the Billboard 200 and sold 238,000 copies. The new set helped Kiss earn $10.6 million in touring revenue and $879,000 in album sales."

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Anonymous Coward

Typical rich snob in life

What an ass he is. Literally and on stage, the guy dresses like a slut with his butt exposed, and lives his life the same way with comments like this.

He isn't even really married, he just lives with a women because he is too afraid to commit to her. So his kids really aren't his kids.

His comment is also the typical comment you get from the wealthy in this world. Thats how they got their money, by screwing everyone else. With a could care less attitude. One day it will come back to bite him.

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Silver badge

'Scuse me?

Are you saying that because I am not married to the mother of my children, who I live with, they are not my children?

Think you need to return to the Southern states pronto, and start a creationist cult immediately.

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Silver badge
Stop

But there is no music industry, and hasn't been for decades

The music industry claimed back at the development of music radio that they'd be killed by music radio (it's free music to the user after all, who's going to buy what's free).. Therefore, decades later anyone claiming to be involved in the music industry must be an archiologist, an undertaker, a zombie, or a combination of the above.

Does Gene Simmonds count as a Zombie?

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Anonymous Coward

heh

all I can say is

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-02-25/nick-simmons-incarnate-halted-over-alleged-bleach-plagiarism

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Thumb Down

Isn't Kiss a 1980s band?

One of the most embarassing things you come across as you go through life is the musicians of your rebellious youth turning into middle aged -- or even -- old people. Fair enough, you can't stop time, but when they start dressing and acting like it was 30 years ago -- it makes me cringe.

Kiss and that style of music had its time. Its fans are now preoccupied with other things.

Its over. Nothing to see here, folks.

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Anonymous Coward

Twisted firestarter? Flaccid emberstoker, more like!

This coming from the man who did *that* cover of Firestarter.

Come on, who doesn't know by now that Gene Simmons is, and always was, just a business man? This should be no more of a surprise as the head of Warner Bros coming out with the same views.

Kiss is just an olde-worlde travelling circus, with the clowns being just as miserable once they take off the face paint as yer average Cocoa. Anyone who thinks that someone who puts on face paint and leather must be some kind of radical hero is a fool. Just look at all the New Romantics telling anecdotes of glory about living in squats back in the 80s... at dinner parties in their multi-million pound Grade II listed properties in Camden.

What do people expect Lily Allen & Co to be like when they're over 50? They'll be the first to call the police when the young scruffy oik next door dares to play loud music after 5pm.

And if New Labour was a product of 70s youth culture, would anyone like to imagine what kind of government today's gangsta yoof will met out (like truncheons) when their time comes? They'll make Gordon Brown look like Adam Smith on acid. And Darth Vader look like King John.

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Flame

Shit Parenting

Thank God I'm not his kid. I would probably have run away years ago!

I'll grant him one thing: at least he's a jackass to everyone, his kids aren't spared from his jackassery.

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