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back to article Sony PlayStation Move

“I like to Move it, Move it." Reel 2 Reel paraphrased in 1994 exactly how I feel about the PS3's new motion controlled system. PlayStation Move motion controller The motion controller is the main Move add-on Are we still embarrassed by so-called 'active gaming'? I know I keep the curtains closed during my nightly Wii Fit …

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hmmm..

I'm thinking of buying this...

but the cost is a bit of a rip off isn't it?

It's only a camera and blue globe light - plus the bluetooth and controlling chippery.

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Go look how much Kinect costs

I can't say the Move is huge value but the price is in line with other controllers and the entry level is fairly low especially compared with the price of the Kinect device.

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then its simple.....

don't buy it. Vote with(out) your money.

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Yes that's right

I tell you what, why don't you nip down to Kmart and buy yourself a blue light bulb and a cheap camera. You've probably already got bluetooth in your phone or something so you have that already. Just put them all together and there you go, Playstation Move on the cheap! No need to buy the real stuff at all!

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Ahh, sadly you seem to have forgotten

about that small sticker that says "SONY" and doubles, if not triples the price of any old shite.

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Erm

Development costs money.

Not to mention having to develop the hardware around all the patents Nintendo and others have on the motion technology. This is why the Go looks so ridiculous.

I suppose you think a CD should be 2p since that's all it costs to make? but forgetting wages, recording costs, promotion costs, wages for everyone involved and so on.

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@Giles Jones

You are 100% Correct.

I suppose alot of development resources went into this - to get around the various associated patents.

That's probably why Kinect costs so much - it was done years before with EyeToy for PS2 - but patents are how patents are.

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Actually Sony has the patents

The patents relating to this tech (and some related to Kinect) were filed by Sony as far back as 10 years ago. In the patent you can even see the diagrams that show what looks pretty much like the move controller. This was years before the launch of the Wii. As for Nintendo I don't know if they even have any patents related to the Wii motion control since they licenced the tech from other companies.

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Costs the same as a Wiimote

Only works much better. If you want to talk of rip offs buy a Wii. They released a half assed implementation and then added on the motion plus to try and fix it's short comings.

I have both and the Wii rarely get's used. Even the kids prefer to use one of the PS3s

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FAIL

EPIC FAIL

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/sony-playstation-move-tear-down-report-717793

PlayStation Move also "contains many of components found in today's smartphones: a processor, accelerometer, gyroscope, Bluetooth transmitter, vibrating motor, and even a MEMS compass," notes iFixit, adding that: "It's an amazing amount of tech for the money."

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Flame

RE:Works much better

I assume it works much better if something obstructs the PS3 Eye...

Anyway, unless they sell this without the PS3 Eye, I don't want it. Already have a PS3 Eye which I use for video conferencing with buddies.

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@Do they sell it without the PS3 Eye

OF COURSE THEY DO!!!

I bought a motion controler from Toys R Us for £29

And it's bloody brilliant.

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Already have the camera, picking up 2x controllers later

Use the PS3 camera already on the PS3 Party Chat (yes Xbox owners, despite what you read somewhere, there is Video Party Chat on PS3). So all I need to 2x controllers, which makes it a very nice intro price of £60.

It's also worth mentioning that you can download all the individual sport champions games from PSN.. So you don't need to pickup the starter pack if you already have the camera.

As for Kinect, it seems like an Eye Toy, the difference of course, is that Eye Toy has realistic goals and thus worked, Kinect is doomed for tech failure (and hopefully thus commercial failure too) due to it's unrealistic goals.

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WTF?

easy tiger!

It seems MS really hurt you at one point didn't they (or your re-directing some bitter anger at them!).

I'm not so sure its an "unrealistic goal", it might be for you but a company with as much money as MS? And I certainly wouldn't wish anything to be a commercial failure - where something commercialy fails, so do peoples jobs! Harsh man, .... harsh. I hope your employer never commercialy fails...

As for the Move and Kinnect, this is great! PS3 & X360, all jumping off the launch pad the Wii created. Which one will succeed? Who knows! (Oh I'm sure some of you think you do!) This is going to be fun to be part of and enjoy :)

The real future of gaming is just starting to take off!

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JBH
FAIL

The problem I have with Kinect is...

...it doesn't provide the necessary depth of control.

Take the recent Forza demo. They had removed the acceleration controls and the car moved automatically, essentially ruining the game. The players only job is to 'steer', turning the whole thing into a traffic dodging exercise.

Sorry Microsoft, but you can keep it!

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cheap i think not

I agree it maybe ok for PS3 owners but will it make people buy it.

£250 for the console plus

2 controller £30 plus the motion item at £25 each plus camera at £20 (with pack)

Since you always need 2.

thats a massive £380 investment prior to games. no way that will make people buy a PS3 if they have a WII or xbox 360.

i'm a hardcore gamer and I have yet to buy a PS3 (have all other plus decent gaming PC) and this will not make be want to buy it the latency alone would stop it being useful to harcore FPS online. SO that leaves party play already heavily controlled by Wii at half the cost.

Sony again mistake tech and cost thinking tech will outway the negative of the cost, plus it looses the plot on the look. very un-ps3 looking wand.

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Worst case

You don't need half that you moron. It cost me £60 for 2x Move controllers. That's it.... You have picked the worst case scenario. You don't need the nav controllers, and you can use regular SixAxis controllers in their place.

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FAIL

"i'm a hardcore gamer and I have yet to buy a PS3"

Then your not a hardcore gamer. Anyone that truely considers themselves a gamer will already have a PS3. How else do you get to play generation defining titles like Uncharted 1&2 and Killzone and the like? You don't you miss out...

Congratulations, your fanboyism means you are the one losing out....

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not a fair comparison

Your comparing a released product with a PRE release product. I'm guessing here but Forza is one of the ones released so its not Kinnect specific? Lets wait until its released before we jump to conclusions eh?

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JBH

Fair point, but...

If you're going to showcase your fancy new controller technology, show something else and don't use a game that you have effectively broken.

I'm not denying that Kinect is interesting technology, and no doubt it has some very useful applications, but I can't see it being a great success at this stage.

As for Playstation Move, well Sony are just playing catch-up. I can't blame them though - the Wii-mote has been a phenomenal success. I might get Move eventually, but my PS3 is never going to replace the Wii.

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Brilliant definition there

Definition of hardcore gamer - one who owns a PS3.

Discuss.... or maybe not. On the whole not.

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Coat

I always thought...

that a "hardcore gamer" was an oxymoron.

Or some kind of moron, anyway.

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Paris Hilton

Party Piece?

The problem with this (and with the Wii), is whilst it's a great social game, when it comes to getting serious it's not the type of game you will play for hours on your own (or online).

I our household, if we have friends over and want to put a console on then 99% of the time it's the wii. If I want play a game then it's generally the 360.

As your review is focused mainly around the party games, then it's hard to know if this will break that barrier.

Paris, because she likes to party with alien sex toys

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If it's accurate then it's the one for me

I've been waiting for a review of this on a site I trust. Having played the Wii many times I have also been frustrated by its lack of accuracy, even with the "Motion Plus"(tm) controller the console lets itself down, not to mention the dated graphics and some very tired-looking game franchises.

Recently I also had the opportunity to have a go on the Microsoft Kinect system as it was being demo'd at my place of work. Although I should point out for fairness that it is not yet the finished retail product and subject to bug-fixing.

If Kinect can be described as anything then that thing would be very clever. It can recognise people so that it knows who is playing (I can't speak for how accurate it would be if you gained/lost a few pounds) and can recognise the position of your limbs without any controller. However, while it was quite good fun in games which encompassed general movement, anything that needed more than a slight degree of accuracy was somewhat disappointing. Certainly on the system we played on, it showed even when just using your hand to select a button on the screen that it jiggled and moved slightly rather than being steady like my hand (I don't believe I had the alcoholic shakes that day....). We also saw that in some cases, perhaps based on clothing (one guy was wearing all black) it didn't properly recognise limb positions.

Of course, some of this may be fixed or improved by launch, but I still don't see how it can compete on an accuracy basis without the benefit of a motion sensitive controller to back up the image-based tracking.

For me, this means that I will gravitate towards the Move as I think the lack of accuracy may limit the applications of Kinect. However, if I am proved wrong upon the full Kinect release then things could always change.

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Our other office has a Kinnect dev kit...

And it's the laughing stock of the office (our office at least). The latest hardware rev turned up about 6 weeks back, and it's still a utter joke, it's really laggy even basic API testing, let alone trying to use it in a game, and it has serious (and unfixable) registration issues due to the resolution drop Microsoft had to give it to make it affordable (and for the Xbox to be able to perform the image processing near realtime). It promises way too much, there is no way on earth it can deliver anything more than a small update on what PS2 EyeToy was offering 8 years back.

Move all the way. We have 3x move titles in development, and it's all going very well indeed. The Sony APIs are stable and well documented and integrate seamlessly into their existing API classes and system services, it's quite trivial to add move support, as long as your game is the type that can benefit from it.

It sorta explains why MAG is getting a Move update within the month, as is Heavy Rain (which I am a big fan of), I think both titles will demonstrate very nicely how versatile Sony's new controller is.

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Kinect is never going to be perfect

Kinect is trying to infer a wireframe representation of a person(s) from a 2D image and a depth sensor. It's going to be compute expensive to do and even then it is never going to be perfect or precise because it's trying to work off limited inputs. If someone puts their hands behind their backs, the software is going to have to guess. If someone moves too fast for the camera or a mote of dust passes over the camera lens, it's going to have to guess. etc. To counter this, they'll probably have to dampen the inputs, but that introduces lag. In the non-optimal conditions in the average home it's going to be laggy and probably still glitchy.

The live demos shown so far would bear that out - I was watching one on YouTube last night where there was literally a second's worth of lag between a girl jumping and her counterpart avatar in a rafting game. I realise that the software in demos might be preproduction quality but the thing is only 6 weeks from release so it hardly bodes well for the final product.

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WTF?

Difference

I though the *big* difference was the Kinect has 2 cameras (and mics) compared to the single one of the eye toy - hence it can see and hear in a 3D space.

Peter Molyneux has spoken really highly about about Kinect - even at TED he's been saying this is the next big thing in gaming (citing what appears to be AI enablement of the XBOX). That said, the Wikipedia article on him says he has a reputation for oversellng future game capabilities.

So - 2 cameras and mics don't help - or - Microsoft have messed up in the implementation to allow developers to gain the benefit ?

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Peter Molyneux

What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Microsoft employee Peter Molyneux talks highly of Microsofts product Kinect! Well I can certainly trust his opinion, next he will be telling us about how his next game will be revolutionary and the best thing ever.

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Future depends on support

My original PS3 packed in recently so I've ordered a Move & Slim bundle seeing as I had to buy a replacement anyway. I haven't received them yet but my thoughts are that some games will really benefit from the controls but most won't.

Just like the Wii motion control will work best when there is a 1:1 or obvious mapping between what you do with your controller and what happens in the game. So sword swing will work great if your in-game avatar copies your moves, but it will be balls if it maps onto some generic swipe hi / lo style action (like Red Steel). A game that tracks you in real time will be great, but a game that waits for you to proscribe some action before responding with be awful.

And games that rely on gestures such as drawing a wavy line or a circle or a squiggle to do some action should be cast into the pits of hell. Abstract gestures suck so badly.

I have to wonder how things will fair between Move & Kinect over christmas. I have no doubt which is the more practical and accurate system, but sometimes reality doesn't favour the best solution. Perhaps both will sink into relative obscurity once the initial fanfare passes.

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Joke

looking like "Alien Sex Toys"

Nothing "Alien" about the look of these as instruments of pleasure. You're just not looking at the right websites. :)

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Unhappy

Move demos

One thing that's annoyed me with their bundles is that there doesn't seem to be any way to get the demo disc without it. It's a bit of a middle finger at the people who already invested in the PS Eye.

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They'll be on PSN

Sony already announced you can download the demos online

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Happy

@Oli Wright, 17th September 2010 12:25 GMT

did you try to download the demos from PSN?

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Holy shit! Is this out now?!?

*runs to shops

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Games

So it comes out today...What games have been released with it? Anybody know?

I've got Kinect pre-ordered, the thing putting me off PS Move is that I bought the PS Eye ages ago and there was no support for it, which seems to happen with the PS3.

The Six Axis motion sensing was a flop and can't remember the last time i've seen a game on the PS3 that uses it.

This looks good, and Kinect seems closer to what the EyeToy / PSEye is. The main decider won't be the accessories themselves but the software.

It was lack of decent software the EyeToy / PS Eye didn't do that well. Luckily the PS Eye has been 'recycled' in a way and used with Move, making it cheap for us PS Eye owners to get in on it.

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FAIL

@Daniel Harris

Did you look on PSN for PS3 Eye games, there are plenty of them. My favorite is The Trials of Topoq... But there are plenty others...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Eye#Compatible_games

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I'm not reading the article cos i'm younger than 30 and we don't do that

I'm just going to reply with - well it looks like a dildo! It gets my vote!

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Alert

Why does it look like you're holding a magenta cock on page 2?

Bizarre...

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Heart

That will be my friend Mel :)

what a star she is!

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Nice

Got 2 controllers on the way into work, cant wait to get home.

Have about 5 games already that patched to work with it, which is great!

Cant wait to try Resident Evil 5 and Heavy Rain later.

The PSN mini golf and bowling games got patched too, never liked the controls on them so look forward to giving them another go.

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Anonymous Coward

Grand Turismo?

Gran Turismo FFS!

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incase you were having trouble fitting the camera on the TV...

... the video on this article shows you a trick on how to fit it on top of the TV without worrying about it falling off ( http://kotaku.com/5626933/how-to-mount-that-playstation-eye-camera-with-minimal-fuss )

I am currently waiting for a FPS to try with the PS Move, I really wish to see if this controller will be able to replace the PC mouse. I love the consoles since they cost far less then constantly upgrading my PC and at the same time they always play the games in maximum settings without giving me any problems. The only complain I always had about the console was the lack of mouse support... hopefully this controller will fix that.

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Grenade

3D camera?

[quote]The hardware Move uses is a 3D webcam: the PlayStation Eye connected to the console by USB tracks and maps your movements. [/quote]

Are you sure the playstation eye is a 3D camera, I always thought you needed 2 lenses to achieve 3D.

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Re: 3D Camera

It has '3D' microphones, but only one image sensor. It determines depth by the size of the ball on the Move controller.

In reply to earlier post...

I have a wireless mouse and keyboard connected to my PS3, but I don't think many games support it.

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3D webcam...

I was of the understanding it uses the standard PlayStation Eye webcam which in turn uses the size of the orb at the top of the wand to determine the distance from the camera.

Surely the PlayStation Eye can't be said to be 3D as it does not have a second camera and does not use stereoscopic vision to determine the distance of the wand.

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Stop

It's not 3D, but the point is..

It works.. It senses depth of field using the size of the orb. The orb glows different colours depending on background colours and the colours of the room around it. (It changes the colour glow to achieve best contrast against the background and other players).

It's also got Bluetooth, Accelerometers, Digital Compass and other tricks, it's rather a complex bit of kit for £30. I know this will upset the idiots that think it's just a wand with a light (cornz 1)

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Alert

just so you know...

the move idea has been around since 2000... so its not really "jumping off the launch pad the Wii created"

heres a tech demo from 2003 (yes the wand looks pretty pathetic here!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zin-gK6NEIY

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Shhhhh your spoling the illusion.

Interestingly, the same guy from that move tech demo back in 2003 is the same guy demoing it here now:

http://www.viddler.com/explore/PSBlogEU/videos/688/1.36

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WTF?

Guess Sony don't use rapid development

..... 7 years? So, they have thought of the idea but did bugger all with it!

Well done Nintendo for doing something with the idea and creating demand!

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FAIL

move fail

If we want family entertainment the kids can play the wii I already blew $500 on (accessories cost as much as system which is why Sony wants a cut). When I game I do it to veg on the couch. If I want exercise I go to the park for free. This might be worth it for those without a WII but I fail to see the pointing of blowing more cash just to make my PS3 a super WII. Now that said they better not ruin big titles going forward (Killzone3, Socom 4 (already delayed due to stupid Move)) by overempathsizing the gimick that is the Move.

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