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BT mulls upping apprentice numbers

BT is considering increasing the number of apprentices it employs after receiving over 100 applications for each place. The telco offers 221 places for trainees but this year had 24,000 applications. Apprenticeships are not just for engineers - there are three categories: customer service, information technology and …

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Geoff Campbell
Happy

I know it is considered traditional to play some pretty nasty jokes on apprentices....

....but surely making them work for BT is a step too far?

GJC

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

I applied for one of their apprenticeships

I got through to the interview stage and I have to say it was the worst interview I ever did.

I was seen by 2 men in a small box room with noisy air con and literally the only thing they did for over an hour was read questions off a script and then write down, word for word, my replies. Many of the questions were identical to the ones I had already answered on the application form.

They kept asking me to pause mid-sentence so that they could catch up and they would not accept any answer that they didn't consider to be 100% relevant to the question as it was written. It was as if they had been forbidden from making any kind of judgment whatsoever.

There was NO scope for any kind of human interaction. They were acting purely as robots, reading out questions and taking down notes. Anything I did that made it difficult for them to take down notes appeared to make them aggressive.

Once the note taking was over I was given a chance to ask questions but the only answers I received came in the form of snide dismissive remarks.

I failed the interview and I will never apply for any position at BT ever again.

Peter 88
Reply Icon

Don't give up hope...

I had a very similar experience from Ferranti in Cheadle Heath many years ago whilst looking for a graduate placement. I'm sure some of the HR people in these companies would be shocked if they sat in on some of the interviews they conduct...

(Needless to say I never got in Ferranti - but ended up managing them as a Design Authority for some of their systems).

Anonymous Coward
Coat

Ah...the BT Apprenticeship

I started out as a Trainee Technician Apprentice in London in 1982 and what a great apprenticeship covering all of the engineering side of BT. I progressed to Technician 2a on Exchange Construction, replacing TXK (Crossbar) and TXS (Strowger) with TXE (Electronic) and later TXD (Digital) exchanges. Ended up as a Technical Officer (in Training) on Network Planning. Happy days...!

I left to go to Uni and now have a B Eng and an MSc and a commensurate salary but the apprenticeship taught me a lot. I joined the PO as a 16 year old boy and left BT as a 22.5 year old boy+.

Mines the one with the screwdriver instrument 3a and the 21s in the pocket.

Graham Bartlett
Flame

Engineer?

John, please tell me you *did* actually mean "engineer" here? As in they have the letters "BEng" or "MEng" after their name?

If not, they're technicians, all BT assertions of "we'll send an engineer round" to the contrary.

Chris Judd
Unhappy
Reply Icon

The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.

The UK has no restriction on the use of the term 'engineer'. Unlike the US where it's a professional moniker, and you have to be a paid up member of a professional body to use it. Or so I'm told.

Michael
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which is how it should be here

Technicians fix things and the engineers design them.

Anonymous Coward
Thumb Down

outsourcing

Maybe if they didn't take apprentices in, train them up and then outsource their jobs to other companies they would get on better.

GeorgeTuk

Wow 221 from 24000, they really should be the best.

But they're not.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward
Reply Icon

They're not?

How would you know? The ones I've met seem to be extraordinary young people. The BT apprenticeship scheme and the people on it are widely considered to be role models for the rest of industry.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Engineer/technician...

Whats the difference?

I have a BEng (amongst others) and (these days) get paid about the same as a tech...

Anonymous Coward
Welcome

If BT really wanted to make a few more jobs at home

If BT really wanted to make a few more jobs at home there's a few callcentres they could onshore rather than offshore.

Will they?

When even the banks and similar organisations of ill repute are advertising "UK call centres only" you'd have thought the decision would be obvious.

Jessica Werkz

@AC @13:00

You were probably interviewed by some HR type of people that knew nothing about the engineering side, hence them writing everything down for someone else to read and also their aggresiveness when you said anything that went above their heads.

That number of applicants for so relatively few positions is going to make BT feel good about themselves, probably a bit arrogant, and dismissive with your questions.

Heaven knows how many good people they miss with this type of interviewing.

David 45

Not what it was

Used to be a BT maintenance man myself (or Post Office Telephones, as was years ago) but it went down the pan when it was sold off. Faults had same-day attention. Now you're lucky to get it looked at within a few days. I have moved house several times since I left and they managed to foul up my phone line and broadband every time. Now an absolute shower.

Anonymous Coward
Headmaster

"The UK has no restriction on the use of the term 'engineer'. "

That's correct. And a large part of the reason for that is that most qualified professional engineers consistently let other folks get away with abusing the word. So kudos to the chap here who reminded us of the distinction.

"chartered engineer" is a different subject, though I'm not sure how much value organisations like the IET actually add in their promotion/recognition process. One of the few Fellows of the IET I've had the privilege of working near is actually one of the least competent people I know, both technically and managerially. But I don't suppose the IET has a mechanism for handling that kind of input, which is a shame, because the fact that people like ****** are FIET is a poor reflection on the IET's standards and processes.

I had close family members who were chartered engineers in the IMechE and ICE. Their institutions seemed to have a bit more clue (though this is going back a while).

Joefish

Presumably

23 999 of those applications are from people they've laid off this year..?

kain preacher

@Chris Judd

"you have to be a paid up member of a professional body to use it. Or so I'm told."

To be called an engineer in America, you need a four year degree .

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Interesting but..

The last time I looked BT had moved all their *engineering* jobs to India. The numbers and trend there are larger and more significant than what they're doing with a few technician roles. Sounds like PR to me.

Personally I'm looking forward to the day when they "offshore" their senior management and HR jobs too, although I'll not be holding my breath for that one.

Anonymous Coward
Flame

I applied

I applied a few years back for a position akin to a linesman. The application bumph and questions were geared towards working on the network but on the day I turned up for interview they said the only position they were recruiting for was a Power Systems technician.

I was fairly unimpressed with polishing battery terminals for the rest of my days, so didn't really try very hard at interview...

Anonymous Coward
WTF?

Re: Ah...the BT Apprenticeship #

"Mines the one with the screwdriver instrument 3a and the 21s in the pocket."

21s! what the 'ell were them? That B Eng and an MSc you have has gone to your head.

They were 81s, rate book item Apparatus Terminating No.1 (AT1) - for the use of.

Still got the tag rash from many years of MDF jumper running. Krone blocks are for wimps.

Now were's me bellhanger, I have a doubled glazed uPVC window frame to get this dropwire through!

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