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back to article Deviant Google Android probes Linux kernel re-entry

Google's Android has won partial re-admission to the Linux kernel, but much work lies ahead for a full re-entry. Code written by Linux kernel maintainer Rafael Wysocki has been adopted in the kernel tree that re-implements Android's wake locks feature — to stop a device from completely shutting down — in what has been called a " …

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Time to get realistic

The Linux people are going to have to make peace with Google's large role in Linux.

Yes, we all would have preferred something more like Maemo instead of Android (e.g. since Maemo presents more of Linux to the application developer) but Google's contributions to Linux have been huge.

If it weren't for Google and Android we would be facing a world dominanted by Apple and iOS which represent the antithesis of every value and ideal of Linux.

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Flame

How about time to do your homework before opening your mouth?

Symbian (40% global smartphone market share) is open source, so it's simply not true that if it weren't for Google and Android we would be facing a world dominated by Apple and iOS which represent the antithesis of every value and ideal of Linux.

Besides it looks like regarding power management Linux is where Symbian was 10 years ago?

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Unhappy

What google contributed?

You say that tivoized and locked down device running mangled version of Linux kernel does not "represent the antithesis of every value and ideal of Linux"?

For crap's sake, it can't even run as root without breaking the DRM. There is no freedom for users with Android. Even Windoze mobile gets you more breathing room.

I hope MeeGo blasts Android to pieces.

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Stop

Re: Time to get realistic

So why did Google use a Java VM instead of using, say, native applications on, say, Maemo? Apart from CPU independence (cheap Chinese MIPS-based tablets anyone?), they have the option to stop using Linux if it becomes too uncomfortable or expensive to them (although that's something I doubt will happen).

Face the reality: Linux already had drivers and ARM/MIPS support, there are some bootloaders for ARM/MIPS, manufacturers had board support packages for their devices and there you go: a already common embedded platform to run your JVM. *Linux is just an accessory to their platform*.

Can you install Maemo/Meego on your Nexus One? Can you install Maemo applications on Android? Both Android and Maemo/Meego are Linux, right? Thought so.

As an Android developer you don't make an app for Linux. You make one for Android.

They could have based Android on NetBSD and it would still be Android/Java apps, not NetBSD ones.

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With Android: DRM is optional

"""You say that tivoized and locked down device running mangled version of Linux kernel does not "represent the antithesis of every value and ideal of Linux"?"""

If you purchase a phone that does DRM then that would be the case, but nobody is forcing you to do that. There are relatively open phones you can hack around with if that is what you care about.

I don't run the stock firmware on my Android phone and I am never going to purchase a Android phone that has DRM in it's bootloader to prevent me from running a custom firmware.

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FAIL

Android IS Linux.

"""Can you install Maemo/Meego on your Nexus One? Can you install Maemo applications on Android? Both Android and Maemo/Meego are Linux, right? Thought so."""

What? You did not even wait for somebody to fucking answer?

You CAN if you want to. You'll have to port it yourself. ARM is not x86 were your dealing with standard hardware and standard BIOS. With ARM each platform has unique features you have to take into account and a few of the drivers are closed source. Mostly to do with the radio.

But I run Debian in chroot on my Android phone. Why? Because I can.

And for your viewing pleasure:

Nexus One hacked with USB Host mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-bLOc1qnMM

USB Video card, running LXDE on external display. Keyboard. Everything.

Android IS Linux. It just does not use X Windows by default. You could install it if you wanted to.

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Anonymous Coward

re: drag

What will you do when they invent perfect DRM?

And when every manufacturer start using it?

Something that Motorola tried with Fuse but failed, but look at Sony PS3, they managed to make perfect DRM.

"You don't have to buy it" argument doesn't stick because no Android phone gives you root access like normal Linux system would - on sudo. You have to hack your own device to get control of your phone. With Maemo, you just install certain package from repository which warns you that you should know what you doing when using root account, and you are good to go. MeeGo is same. No hacking required to get root access, but hacking is possible (if you want to do it for some other reason) and there is no DRM.

Android is designed for easy tivoization by manufacturers and carriers. I don't like to be forbiden to hack my device, but I don't want to be forced either. And I am forced to hack device if it doesn't give me root access when I need it. Android is always forcing you to hack it, and then some manufacturers make it impossible by DRM. From my point of view, that's crazy.

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Happy

But..

have there been more discussions about how to solve the problem of poorly behaved developers in Linux?

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Coat

re "But..."

Yes, but then the discussion suffered thread-drift, and got onto the topic of solving a problem like Maria. At this point, it degenerated into another world war...

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Boffin

Another angle on this...

...would be the stubbornness and arrogance of some of the linux kernel maintainers.

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Re: Another angle on this...

True, they can be stubborn, but it's their kernel, their project, and their community. As with any other human interaction, if you want to participate with a community, you must accept--or at the very least understand and respect--their customs and values.

-dZ.

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They are jerks most of the time (especially Torvalds), but not this time

Google never approached and raised issue to see if they can get agreement. No, they just forked the kernel and made aggressive and invasive changes, which can't be possibly merged back without breaking everything. Ubuntu, RHEL, all would have to suffer to merge android back.

Now they are like rewriting and toning down their crapola, so it might get merged back in couple of years. If they don't change their mind and go frenzy again.

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Silver badge

the Linux kernel does not belong to the kernel maintainers

DZ-Jay: "it's their kernel, their project"

No. It's their *fork*. The beauty of open source and the GPL is, when someone decides not to cooperate you can bypass the obstacle by forking. And no-one has rights to whine about it after the event.

I prefer a few hours more battery life than worrying about bruised ego's and developers notoriously difficult to work with.

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Joke

All moot

Whether or not Android makes it in to the main kernel really doesn't matter. Once Windows Phone Mobile Handy A-hoy-hoy Zeiben hits the streets, the whole world will realise the error of their ways and return to the loving embrace of Redmond.

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Needs?

Anyone who says Linux 'has to' to do this, that, or the other totally fails to comprehend what Linux is all about.

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Linux

@petur

I agree. I like to think of them as Gollum - esque type characters............ My precious........

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