Apple's senior antenna expert told Steve Jobs during the "early design phase" of the iPhone 4 that the handset's exterior antennas could cause dropped calls, according to a report citing a person familiar with the matter. Bloomberg reports that Apple senior engineer Ruben Caballero warned the company's management that the Judas …
Ouch, but haven't we been here before?
Sounds like Microsoft and the known Xbox problems.
I suspect the response was similar "our customers are too stupid to care about that, watch them queue up time and time again to buy the same crap regardless".
Ironic as the aptly timed Xbox Slim comes out tomorrow ready for morons prepared to part with even more money for after the expired warranty RROD units die again...
A fool and his money......
Obvious Ps3 fanboy
Well apart from the fact that MS will fix/replace an xbox 2 years after warrenty expires, why let facts get in the way of MS bashing eh. Unlike my mates PS3 which had the Sony version of RROD, the flashing red light of death which occured a few weeks after it refusing to play some DVDs and all games. Cost money to call Sony who offered to fix/replace it for 130 quid but were generous in giving a 3 month warrenty (sarcasm). He, wrongly in my opinion, opted to buy a new one so I opened the old one up to find it burnt in numerous places.
Sale of Goods act
Next time just throw the "Sale of Goods act" at them. If it's not fit for purpose - i.e. doesn't do what it's meant to do or doesn't last a reasonable amount of time then the *seller* must replace it or recompense you. Note, this is the seller - it's not the original manufacturer, so when the store tells you that it's nothing to do with them and you have to go to the manufacturer, they are lying and breaking the law.
Naturally this applies to both XBOXen and PS3s...
Obviously an MS X-Box fanboy
Ok, lets start with the fact that people have X-boxes that fail multiple times. The first one fails it is replaced. The second fails it is replaced. The third fails ... etc etc. You hear one excuse about them failing but then another excuse appears - ie they fail in a different way.
I know 7 people who have x-boxes that have failed. All of them from general use. There are also countless stories of them failing across the internet. Microsoft extended the warranty because the x-box quality is a massive disaster for the company that they were FORCED to do it.
I know 1 person who has had a PS3 fail. Just one out of all the PS3 people I know. IT DID NOT FAIL FROM GENERAL USE. Instead he thinks it is because of his son, who has the habit of turning the console off by just unplugging it from the wall. That is it! One fail, and not from the Yellow Light of Death.
Yes, I know that the Yellow Light of Death exists because it has been confirmed by Sony. But ... as I keep telling the sad X-Box fanboy who sits opposite me when in his desperation he brings up the yellow light of death again and again and again and again in sad desperate attempt to put down the PS3 in a bid to make his purchase of an X-Box justifiable ... the Yellow Light of Death exists on the first generation of PS3's. If it exists on other generations then there is no reports of it on the net that I remember, unless you listen to the rabid rantings of X-box fanboys.
Yes, I own a PS3. I regard it as a better console.
Here we go again...
Slim RROD still exists:
Slim still scratches disks:
I suppose Microsoft are eager to sell people new systems as soon as the old ones expire prematurely. I also note the next systems only have 1yr warranty now too, which is convenient.
Only in Microsoft's head or in shareholders dreams does it not exist.
I know plenty of Xbox owners that have bought consoles in the latest year, only for them to not make it out of the 1yr warranty (Xbox warranty was silently dropped back to 1yr some time back).
Clearly Microsoft talked the problems down, and then dropped the warranty back to suit. The point is that does not mean the problem is fixed.
Just like the new Slim consoles that STILL destroy discs..
Microsoft have been rather crafty with the Slim, they have taken the RROD indicator away, it no longer come up with that error, however it's not a fix, it's just adding a different error, so when you Google it does not turn up so many results (at least not until it's got a new name).
I also find it rather funny that you we willing to not buy a PS3 because some random person on the internet thinks your current console is crap (which is clearly is at least from a manufacturing point of view, and personally I think it is from a gamers point of view too)
"Instead he thinks it is because of his son, who has the habit of turning the console off by just unplugging it from the wall. That is it! One fail, and not from the Yellow Light of Death."
If pulling the plug will break the toy, then that toy also has a critical design flaw.
fanbois are great.
I have 2 Elites and a PS3, none have failed. (touch wood)
The problem I have with the PS3 is Cinavia... If I knew there would be an update in the future sticking this DRM on, I wouldn't have bought one.
since 2002 all consumer goods sold in the EU have a 2 year warranty by law. Unfortunately for us the people who are paid silly money to enforce consumer law don't give a dam.
Under the sale of goods act it is up to the consumer to prove there is an inherent fault after the first 6 months, and this can often be difficult to do.
However Under EU law the 2 year warranty is mandatory
Directive 1999/44/EC, May 1999 from the European Parliament stipulates that by 1st January 2002 all member states must have altered their legislation to comply with new consumer laws. These new laws will ensure that all new consumer goods, including cars, carry at least a two-year warranty and used consumer goods have a minimum of a one-year warranty.
So stuff Microsoft or any other manufacturer who says its out of warranty when it breaks 1 year and a day after purchase, and point them to the above directive.
Here we go again... → # ↑
Yeh you can scratch a disc, very easily. I've roughly 70 games. I scratched one, know how you do it, you move the xbox while its reading the disc, oooo, what a design flaw. Tube. Must be lovely place you live were gaystations don't break, Sony and Apple are god (I'll put money on it you've either had or had a judas phone). Within one week two mates PS3's have gone. I've got a PS2, Wii and Xbox, didn't see point of PS3 apart from using as a BR player.
Some Danish guy predicted the iPhone 4 antenna's problems back in early June.
Wierd thing is though...
people are still buying them.
It can't be the so-called (though not by me) fanboys that are buying them. Surely they'd already have one?
So as much as Apple have mucked it up a bit, you've got to hand it to them, they know how to sell stuff :P
Not everyone reads tech pages...
The people still buying probably don't read the tech pages, so why would they know about the problem?
The salesman in Carphone-4-U isn't going to tell them either.
Not that I'm a cynic, but..
it's a little hard to get money from the payout to the class action that's being filed if you don't have an iPhone. Just buy a phone, before St Steve admits they made a balls up, sit back and wait for the cheque to arrive.
It's not just the tech pages.
The story got a good airing on the BBC TV news this morning. That's gotta hurt....
It still looks great. why wouldn't you buy one?
Because I'd rather have a less good looking phone that I can call people on.
did you miss the sarcasm?
(the usual form over function argument)
Big question is..
How many return them after using them for a bit.
form over function
My girlfriend looks like a model, her skin is smooth as silk her figure is perfect, men drool over her when she walks into the room. My ego swells when I notice how she affects those around her. Her aura exudes sensuality.
Her IQ barely reaches double figures. she sits on her ass all day applying makeup and brushing her hair, she costs me a fortune in jewelery and cosmetics. I can only hold a conversation with her if I use words of two syllables or less. She never smiles or laughs, never shows me affection and I think her pussy has healed up.
Re: form over function
Pure class. Hey, what are you doing later?
Anything you like sweetie :-)
Somebody should make an app that uses sudden signal degradation as a "button press". That is, you now have an extra button on the side of the phone. Let's make lemonade out of this, people!
The server provides a web interface that shows a list of high scores. The client monitors for sudden signal degradation and counts this as one point. The high score list can be sorted by user, phone/device model, OS revision.. oh, all sorts of interesting variables.
Anyone got a Mac to play with?
People are still buying them...
....because in my experience only 1 of my 11 friends with an iPhone has any issues and they're nowhere near as severe as some folks seem to make out. So, it could be just the whole issue is being blown massively out of proportion?
sorry but even if you and your chums were a representative sample...one in eleven is actually a lot of people
10 out of 11 is way more.
So 10 out of 11 people have no problems and love the sexy new design.
1 out of 11 people has problems. Of those with the problem, most will likely adapt to using the Jobsian Grip or put on the bumper thing and few will actually return the device for a refund.
Sure these problems are foreseeable, but that does not make it the wrong choice. A dropped call is not the end of the universe, particularly when there are workarounds.
It is also foreseeable that people will crash cars and kill themselves with chainsaws (resulting in far worse outcomes than a dropped call). Yet people manage to learn to use these technologies in a reasonably safe way.
Charles, it's an "iPHONE"
If I was to shell out for something called an "iPhone" I would think it reasonable to expect that the product would above all else excel at placing and receiving PHONE CALLS. If I paid a large sum of money for said "iPhone" and the box actually contained a cheaper product that did everything BUT make phone calls ("iPod Touch" anyone) I would be unhappy.
Lets run the numbers. 1.7 million+ iPhone 4s sold (Apples number), only one out of eleven suffering reception issues (your number) equals: one very large class-action lawsuit.
Got a motor then Charlie?
If one person in 11 had a car with defective brakes then it wouldn't be so good to say that 10 out of 11 cars won't ram you up the arse if you stop sudden like.
Things aren't perfect, but manufacturers of products with known defects should stand by their products and put it right. Free 'bumpers' for anyone with an issue would sort it I'd think, but that's not a strategy that Apple want to embrace. That would be admitting failure...
Consider the source
"only 1 of my 11 friends with an iPhone has any issues"
Translation: 10 out of 11 chatterati sheep sit in Soho and Kensington Starbucks braying into each other's uncomprehending entitled iFaces using WiFi, without noticing any problems.
Here's a hint: send your Trustafarian brain trust on an expedition outside of the M25 and tell us how the signal holds up. They'll need guides and bearers, mind, and make sure they take their own Evian - you can't trust Provincial bottled water.
Rogerborg, do you know Charles personally?
If not, why the ad hominem attack?
Whilst I don't agree with Charles' interpretation of the numbers nor with his car anology, I see no reason to launch an attack on him or his friends. What evidence do you have that he's even in the UK, let alone within the M25? And how on earth do you manage to divine his trustafarian status from his post?
My iPhone succeeded an SE (K770) which succeeded a Nokia (8910). It is better at the basic business of making an d receiving phone calls than either.
You might have a massive chip on your shoulder, but it has precisely zero relevance to the functionality and usability of Apple mobile telephones.
it seems that a substantial amount of user do appear to have problems, however the news stories seem to imply that EVERY iPhone 4 is affected, out of my 4 colleagues, 3 family members I know only 1 phone has the issue and the user of this phone can hold two of the other phones in exaclty the same way without inducing the fault whereas the other two people can hold his phone and get the signal to drop out.
It is not every single iPhone, sure there are a lot of issues (with sales in the millions) it would be unusual to not have some issues with some phones but to my mind it appears to have been blown out of all proportion
Typo? You meant 11 out of 11, surely
(or 1 out of 1?) Apparently you don't know how to reproduce the problem. I've reproduced the problem on every display iPhone I've picked up in both Apple stores in my area, and on 100% of friends' iPhones. Maybe you spend too much time with your friends and you've all developed calluses on your hands??
Get your facts right!
'Then, days later, it said that problem was caused by software that incorrectly calculated the number of "signal bars".'
No they didn't! Why do people keep incorrectly reporting this?! Apple clearly stated that this was just a software update to allow the bars to more accurately represent the amount of signal available. They never said it would have any affect on the underlying attenuation issue caused by touching the phone in certain ways.
Please read this letter from Apple:
"If you are not entirely satisfied, you can help us brush this under the carpet. Thank you for being a mug!"
Why do people keep using "affect" incorrectly? Is it some dread iMeme spread by insidious through-the-body circuiting when using the iPhone 4?
I do believe Apple are going to end up regretting that letter. It seems to me to be the key part of the whole affair - unforeseen design problems are no biggie, everyone has them, even Apple. Arrogant hand-waving responses claiming that black is white and all your customers are deluded is, well, ill-judged.
We shall see....
Well OK, but...
I don't see anything in that letter stating that this software update will make any difference to the attenuation issue they'd already acknowledged, in which the signal can be attenuated by holding the phone in a certain place when not using a case. The letter simply states that the bar algorithm is going to be changed to give a more realistic idea of signal level available, which hopefully will be helpful for users.
Whether or not the attenuation issue is a serious problem is a different matter. Clearly at the time they wrote this, Apple thought not. I've also read many, many forum posts from iPhone 4 users who don't consider this to be a serious problem either. But perhaps Apple have changed their minds a bit on this - hopefully the press conference later will reveal if this is the case.
Re: Well OK, but...
The reason you don't see anything in the letter is simple, it gets dismissed as par for the course. The claim is that the signal of every phone changes depending on how you grip it, specifically the attenuation of "its reception by 1 or more bars." They then go on to blame the formula in the software that displays the signal strength.
To sum up; your grip on the phone changes the signal on every phone, the software on the iPhone doesn't indicate that change in signal properly, we've updated the software to fix that and now it will report signal strength like every other phone. See how that works?
I dunno why they didn't put the gap on the bottom of the phone, would have been no issues then
Gap on the bottom
Oddly enough it does look as if that is what they've tried to do when you look at the phone. There's a small black separator on both sides of the phone near the bottom. From looks alone this implies the two antennas are actually properly isolated from each other, but in practice that doesn't seem to be the case.
This could either mean the black separator on the right is purely cosmetic to balance the gap on the left or there could be some sort of manufacturing flaw that has rendered this separation inoperative. Hopefully we'll find out tomorrow what's really going on...
the problem is your hand, not the phone...
The gap isn't cosmetic, and there (likely) isn't a manufacturing flaw. The issue is that the user's hand can bridge the gap, whether or not the antennae are isolated on the phone (i.e. your hand shorts the circuit).
It's an embarrassing design flaw, and a stupid decision to put it into production when the problem was foreseen earlier, but not the end of the world. If it weren't Apple (or MS), the issue would make the tech pages, but not come close to the front page.
You _can_ hold your phone different(ly) or use a case of some sort , and resolve the major part of the issue (bridging of the circuit), and Apple are right to say that signal attenuation with any phone will always depend on where your hand is in relation to the antenna.
The simplest fix for iPhone 4.01 will be an electrically insulating coating over those metal parts, and no doubt the production line is already gearing up for this.
Fingers crossed there will be a voluntary trade-in scheme for people experiencing issues, and subsequent availability of discounted refurb 4.0 models with the problem (for fanbois like me who would like one, but can't fathom spending that sort of $$ on any phone). For half price I don't have a problem holding my phone diffferently, it could hardly suck worse than my LG.
Is there a sad-iPhone or a bomb?
Just curious. I haven't been near anything Apple since I had a Mac Plus.
Oh, now there's an idea - can we have a "bomb error" icon, please? That'd be just perfect for Apple posts.
Well, that makes you...
...at least as well qualified to hold forth on the subject as most of the Apple refusniks on this forum, so why not give it a go?
Oh no, don't say bomb!
Shit, here's the TSA now!
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