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A South Korean professor's claims that his range of digital water filters could turn regular tap water into genuine Holy Water from Lourdes have brought an icy response from Seoul's police. According to local reports, one Professor Kim - said to work at a "prestigious medical school" - had sold the devices to almost 5,000 people …

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WTF?

So what's the problem?

As long as he only claimed to make Seoul tap water as miraculous as the stuff at Lourdes (or the Ganges or whatever) I don't see any false advertising.

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Holy water:

Not good for the Seoul.

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WTF?

Hmmm.....

Trying to prove in court that some voodoo bullshit selection of filters and cards is somehow making water less "holy" than some voodoo bullshit hand waving and chanting.

That should be interesting.

As for those who weren't cured, they obviously didn't *believe* in the power of the filter..........unless that excuse is somehow copyright to the waving 'n chanting types.

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Nice one, Prof

There's one born every minute

Whether they're stupid enough to buy digitally enhanced water in Korea, or stupid enough to pay a fortune for a visit to Lourdes itself, they deserve to be fleeced for every penny they have.

In fact, I've some water here that's been biologically enhanced by my kidneys, only £10 a bottle (£15 for the dark stuff from first thing this morning).

Mine's the one with the funnel, thanks.

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Pint

@Marky W

You complete and utter bastard. I've just sprayed beer all over my shiny new screen.

Funnel indeed.

Thanks! ;)

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@Marky

So, you've got stuff that's just like normal water, but looks slightly different and does what normal water will do, but in a slightly different way, and you want to charge 20x the normal going rate.

This'll be iWater, then!

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El Sceptic

You'll be claiming REAL Holy Water doesn't work next!

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Miracles at Lourdes

get some severely critical scrutiny before being acknowledged. Personally I'm unconvinced on theological grounds that Lourdes should be somehow special. But when I looked into it some time ago I was surprised to find that my scepticism didn't fit well with the actual outcomes.

Anyway, I'd recommend caution rather than dismissing the whole thing out of hand.

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Hmm

I'd recommend dismissing the whole thing out of hand.

Scrutiny. Sure.

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Anonymous Coward

Until someone grows back a missing limb then I’m having none of it.

Lourdes has been attracting the sick for over 150 years and has attracted an estimated 200 million in total.

Out of these millions it is claimed that 6,000 to 7,000 have been cured on which only 66 are said to be miraculous.

7,000 out of 200 million is a very small percentage and can easily be accounted for by remissions.

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@Geoff Mackenzie

You do parochial narrow-mindedness so well, you should try religion.

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How about growing back a missing hip joint?

Google Vittorio Micheli.

Be that as it may, being able to quote numbers like that means that you haven't dismissed the question out of hand Marcus, so I have no argument with you.

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Anonymous Coward

RE: How about growing back a missing hip joint?

Please don’t make assumptions.

I looked up the number just before I posted in order to add weight to my argument that miracle healing is bunkum not out of curiosity as to its validity.

As for Vittorio Micheli, the only sources I could find had connections with some religious agency or other.

As if I’m going to take the church in Lourdes word for it considering the millions they make by promoting the myth and reinforcing Christian delusion.

As for the morals of getting terminally ill people to travel half way around the world for some snake oil, only a religious organisation could stoop so low.

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Anonymous Coward

RE: Miracles at Lourdes

The number of people who have "miraculous" cures at Lourdes is very small compared to the number of visitors. The number of these "miracles" which stand up to scientific scrutiny is even smaller. It's nothing more than background noise.

Of course, everyone who has been to Lourdes and recovers from the flu or whatever claims it was "a miracle" so the myth is self propagating.

I'll bet if you looked into the number of "cures from Lourdes" vs the number of people who were mysteriously cured but who also happened to eat a banana, you'd get roughly the same number....!!

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@Marcus dubious

"""

Please don’t make assumptions.

I looked up the number just before I posted in order to add weight to my argument that miracle healing is bunkum not out of curiosity as to its validity.

"""

Apologies for the assumption. I hope I can make it right by complimenting you on your observance of the fine and honourable tradition of finding your forgone conclusion in the data. I had previously wrongly supposed that you had committed the despicable act of weighing the data and allowing it to inform your opinion.

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@Marcus

Seriously this time, reading my previous post, it could have done with a few smileys.

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@The old man from scene 24

"I hope I can make it right by complimenting you on your observance of the fine and honourable tradition of finding your forgone conclusion in the data"

It’s not my contention that these events happen so the burden of proof is on you.

There is nothing like disagreeing with the dogmatic to make any argument pointless.

I either research and therefore must have doubts or I don’t and am accused of preconceptions.

Please don't try your silly tricks on me until YOU can provide evidence to support YOUR claims.

Without God miracles cannot happen. I do not need to research the actual case of Lourdes as the total lack of any evidence in God establishes my case for me.

I wouldn’t be very rational if I believed in something without any evidence, would I?

So, the ball is in your court, any verifiable impartial evidence will do, I won’t hold my breath.

Smilies? Why, wasn't yourt post patronising enough?

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@Marcus

I don't really care to argue a specific proposition. If I did, then yes the burden of proof (or at least reasonable evidence) would be on me. Likewise, if you wished to convince me of a proposition (be it a negative or positive assertion), then you would be the one who needed to come up with the goods.

My original assertion was that I recommend one not dismiss the possibility of miracles at Lourdes on the basis of assumption. That's still my recommendation, but no one is under any obligation to take my advice. Or to draw any particular conclusion if they do decide to investigate further.

As for the smilies, I thought they might have taken some of the sting out of my sarcasm - keep it light rather than descending into character assassination. I was surprised at your insistence that you didn't want to look at any evidence before forming an opinion, you see. Anyway, either I misunderstood you or the humour didn't work, whatever.

So, sorry about that. Peace?

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Happy

So, where does this leave homeopathy, then?

Just a passing thought....

GJC

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TEQ

where does this leave homoeopathy?

Same place it's always been. Up the brown smelly river not only without a rowing implement, but without a canoe either.

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@Geoff Campbell

Come now Geoff, we all no Homeopathy is real. It is down to the quantums in the molecules and the amazing memory that water has. Or something. I read it on the 'net, so it must be true.

Strange how the water doesn't remember all the people it has been through over the years, let alone all the salt and fish.

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Pint

Don't drink the water....

I read somewhere that, statistically, in a glass of water at least one of the molecules will have passed through the bladder of Oliver Cromwell. So presumably there must also be molecules in there that have experienced Caligula, Vlad the Impaler, Adolf Hitler and J Edgar Hoover.

On the whole, it's just as well the water doesn't remember, I should think. :)

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Anonymous Coward

The guy's next product

will the the Aquavilifier, which replicates the most evil water molecules in the world. You know, to give encouragement to the world's dictators.

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They check with who?

"The police in turn checked in with the Seoul National University and Korean Institute of Science and Technology"

It really doesn't matter what the science crowd say. A theological claim is being made, not a scientific one, so the authority consulted ought to be a theologian.

I'm gonna get flamed/downvoted for this, I know.

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All it requires is a double blind test

Simply set up a double blind test using water from Lourdes and the digitally enhanced stuff. Then when the results are in you can compare them and publish the results.

Oh wait....

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Anonymous Coward

Doubel blind test

Give one blind man some ordinary water, the other the special stuff.

See who falls into the hole.

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Does it change the isotope ratio of the water?

I couldn't have committed that Seoul murder, copper. I've been in Lourdes for the past year. Check my hair if you don't believe me.

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Let the science speak

Find somebody with a mass spectrometer or whatever you need to make a comparison between the two different waters. If they come out the same, then he's succeed and then it's just the "medical claims" he can be done on (but then it'll apply to the Lourdes water as well). Alas, due to difference in water supplies, they won't be able to come out identical as even a 0.001% difference would be enough for the believers to say "See - see that 0.001% that's the magic of Lourdes!"

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Stop

Not "holy water"

"Holy water" is not the same as "Lourdes water".

Holy water is water that has been blessed by a priest for use in baptisms, blessings and the like.

Lourdes water is water that has been taken from a spring in the foothills of the Pyrenees. If it is to be used in blessings or baptisms, it still needs to go through the same rituals as any other water does in order to become holy water.

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WTF?

Same

He's selling bullshit. Lourdes is selling bullshit.

How can that be false advertising?

Maybe the Catholic church should be prosecuted - unless they're too busy defending kiddie-fiddlers to take up other worthwhile causes.

P.S. For Sale: 1 genuine bottle of Flying Spaghetti Monster piss, £500. Cash only. Sold as sniffed.

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I'm in the wrong business.

1.4m for selling freaking water.

It's not even bloody snake oil, just plain 'ol water.

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What's the problem?

"Kim claimed that he had digitally captured the healing powers of genuine Holy Water from the Catholic Shrine at Lourdes"

And he's right. His water has exactly the same healing power as the "genuine" stuff, with a fraction of the carbon footprint. Plus he's taking money from gullible people that otherwise would go to the Catholic Church.

They should be giving him a medal.

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