A German man could face six months in prison after selecting an Adolf Hitler speech as his mobile phone ringtone. According to the Telegraph, the 54-year-old's Nokia gave forth several times during a train journey in Hamburg, with Adolf pledging the "destruction of world Jewry". Fellow passengers alerted the police, who cuffed …
Arrested over his ringtone?
Re: Bloomin' Nazis
Well it is springtime.
I think anyone whose mobile phone goes off repeatedly and loudly during the course of a train journey should be banged up, regardless of what their ringtone is.
He should take this to the European Court of Human Rights
Germany needs a new Constitution.
Probably should be thankful
That they didn't cavity search his gas chamber
Why do I get the feeling that if this were in the UK, and similar laws applied, he'd successfully plead his EU-given human rights and the police would end up apologising for harassing him and acting 'improperly'?
The Germans stick two fingers up to the EU over civil issues and the French stick them up to trade & industries issues. The UK behaves like a surf dothing its cap as it does what it's told.
Unless what it's told is to stop taking innocent people's DNA and arresting others for taking innocent photos in public. Have you had your dustbin chipped yet? It'll be your kids next...
It's terrible when someone (or even a country) behaves like a surf dothing its cap
It's "serf" and "doffing".
I think what Joey is trying to say..
It was not immediately apparent WTF you were saying, had visions of baggy shorts and big waves.. Then it dawned on me, "like a serf, doffing his cap..".
A Blue Joke
I thought he wrote 'smurf', because they have big caps.
Is it illegal to defend impossible statements in Germany?
"The greatest commander of all time"?
Hitler had a string of successes with brinkmanship diplomacy driving German expansion during the 1930s. If he had stopped there he would probably have been hailed as the Father of the first European Superstate. But he didn't.
Hitler then carved up Poland between Germany and Russia. If he had cheated the Russians and invaded them in defence of the Poles, he would have gained all the lebesraum he wanted, and had the unqualified support of France, the US and Britain. But he didn't.
After Guderian and von Manheim had conducted their brilliant blitzkreig through the Low Countries, Hitler could have been master of all Europe if he had extended the fight to a British invasion. And if he had kept the momentum going, he would probably have won. But he didn't.
And finally, he could have let his skilled generals have their say in the invasion of Russia. But he didn't, and instead wasted German and Russian (and lots of other Eastern European) lives like water. And comprehensively lost the war for Germany.
So it is hard to see how he was 'the greatest' . Charismatic, possibly. But, in the end, spectacularly unsuccessful....
Hitler was possibly one of the greatest leaders of all time, but great doesn't mean good, his clever use of propaganda (blending race and religion) whipped the masses into following him and by the time people realised his real agenda it was too late to stop the machinery.
Hitler did pretty much kill the German nuclear development program stone dead and it's certainly possible that if a different leader had the same power the Germans could have had nukes before the USA and Russia, Germany was playing with fision back in the 1930's but the states didn't know how far they had got until Niels Bohr brought the German discovery to the USA, if it wasn't for the Jewish persecution Bohr may have been embraced rather than being driven out (of Denmark) and perhaps the states would have remained unaware. Hitler pretty much shifted all development to convential and chemical weapons.
So Hitler was a "Great Leader", not a good leader. If Hitler had not come to power Germany may have had nukes before anyone else, and in this "alternate reality" of events they could have wiped out hundreds of millions, or perhaps euope would have become the only superpower keeping peace in the west (and east), perhaps there's a film in there somewhere?
And I'm quite sure the millions of displaced persons murdered during the creation of this "European Superstate" would have agreed.
A tyrant is a tyrant however anyone tries to spin their actions.
@"Hitler had a string of successes with brinkmanship diplomacy driving German expansion during the 1930s"
Here you go, I've fixed it for you ... "Hitler had a string of (what he thought were) successes with his deeply sociopathic Machiavellian two faced duplicity to lie and cheat his way into more power driving his tyrannical German expansion during the 1930s."
People who think he was a great commander, are like people who think attention grabbing celebrities are the best. They highlight something in themselves. In the case of attention grabbing celebrities the people who hold these up as great are very often themselves in need of attention and the same is true of the people who think rampantly arrogant people are great, are themselves desperately in need of gaining power over others. Its warning signs of HPD and NPD behaviour.
So people who say if he had done this and that and whatever (all from a point of view of considerable hindsight) all means nothing. He didn't do these things and so he wasn't a great commander (and anyway, most great commanders were great sociopathic (or worse) tyrants). History shows his judgement failed time and time again. He didn't listen to his "skilled generals" he arrogantly dictated to them just as he tried to dictate to the world. He was an extremely arrogant but ultimately isolated individual. His pattern of extensive prolonged drug use is extremely characteristic of people like him. They are suppressing (with drugs) so much in themselves (their troubling thoughts). Frankly people like him, if they weren't so dangerous to us all, they would be just considered pathetic, and that's the best way to think of them rather than letting them lead us all. So whilst its possible in theory to feel some sympathy for them (when they were younger), their catalogue of evil in practice wipes out any sympathy. Their exceptionally evil, deeply arrogant self interested attitudes don't drive the world forward, they actually just try to bias the world towards what they want. The human race could achieve so much more without their kind in positions of power over us all, but as always with these tyrants, they are endlessly determined to gain power over us all.
Its why we all have to learn to recognise and so isolate these evil people from positions of power over us all, before they can abuse their position of power to gain so much power that they cannot be stopped. Its also why we need to keep a constant watch on the people who are in power over us. They can't just be trusted with power, they have to be deeply watched (and watched with more technology) to watch and profile what they do, but they very often attempt to abuse their power to hide what they are doing and each time they do that, its a clear warning sign they are dangerous people.
We also have to stop them gaining ever more power over us through them abusing technology to give them more power over us.
After all, if the politicians have done nothing wrong, then they have nothing to hide. ;) ... time to play them at their own game. The point being, all politicians are government representatives and the role of government representatives is to represent the people (like they say they represent, when they want the people to vote them into power). They want us to believe they work for us, so its time we were free to watch over everything our employees do in our name. All this hiding stuff they do is to protect their ass, not to protect us, no matter what FUD they say. i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
The British invasion would have failed
In 1974 military commamders from both sides ran war games following the planned 1940 invasion of Britian (Operation Sealion). The war games came to the conclusion that whilst German troops would have landed, the supply lines would have within days forcing the invaders to surrender within a few weeks.
He can't be that great...
He can't be that great as I see him on Youtube all the time in a war room moaning about X-Box live! He's hot a right temper on him!
So who's to say it couldnt happen in the UK with the "hate" laws........... not pleasant doesnt mean it should be illegal!
Iron Sky ???
Iron Sky. It has begun.
Does Godwin's law apply on this thread?
The post is required, and must contain letters.
| || <--- Post ^_^
Only if someone mentions fluffy bunnies
Type your post here -- plain text only, no HTML, no nothing.
But sometimes 'nothing' is 'The Right Thing'.
Doesn't go far enough
...this needs to be extended to public displays of 'Happy House' and 'R&B', with offenders executed for crimes against taste.
"The greatest commander of all time"?
More like "The biggest wanker of all time"....
Hitler was a great man.
Seriously. Look up the definition of "great". It doesn't necessarily mean "good".
The guy was rather a fool for doing what he did. But after how many decades, isn't keeping a law like that around somewhat foolish too? Just treat the neo-nazis like we do in Blighty: Give them the occasional TV spot so they can spout rubbish and get laughed at, meanwhile giggling like crazy at the general election where they might manage to pick up a few hundred votes from the retard demographic.
This is a technical definition of "great" used by historians to mean an individual that had a significant impact on the way events unfolded. Very difficult to use the term in conversation with a layperson, tho', without being misunderstood. Like those Welshies who firebombed a paediatrician's house a few years ago, bless 'em.
A thought on possible precedents
Racists are filthy ignorant swine (apologies to actual pigs), but when you start curtailing speech, you're on a very slippery slope indeed.
Sure, in the specific case of nazis it can be quite clear cut, but what I mean is, when does it start being a "hate crime" to, for example, hate the ruling party and have a ringer that takes a crack at it?
Like i said, just a thought.
Nothing has really changed
Sixty years ago the same basic kind of people helped Hitler form a police state which suppressed Jews (and others). Today the people aid the police in suppressing Nazi supporters. The only difference in the people is that they grew up under different presuppositions about who is good and who is bad. No one seems to realise that there is a problem with presuppositions that it's okay to suppress people. Of course, freedom of speech has its problems, but I'll take it over totalitarianism any day.
Is it 2010 already? Make that eighty years.
Whilst I don't agree with the beliefs of this man, I feel very uncomfortable that a ringtone could be illegal.
Curiously enough the same would happen in France... The same France that gave us Voltaire and his famous quote...
I fear the same would happen in the UK too. However if you were a fanatical ethnic minority preacher you'd be able to spout it forth on the streets of Finsbury Park for months before anyone would do anything about it.
I'll bet there are people with this kind of ringtone in the UK.
The words "Nick" and "Griffin" spring to mind...
Mine's the one with the woman shouting "No!... No!... No!"
That's a Margaret Thatcher reference/quote (for the benefit of any worldly unwise moderators born in the 90s and don't remember her)
What Telegraph? This isn't in Google News.
The other day the world was told that a German postman had married his cat.
It was in Bildzeitung so it must be... oh it doesn't matter let's print it.
Re: What Telegraph?
Er, the Daily Telegraph.
I take it from context that Bildzeitung is the DE equivalent of the Sport? Anyhow, there are two possibilities here:
1) It's out of the "WWII Bomber on Moon" stable, the Telegraph did the difficult bit in translating it when they copied it and El Reg scraped it from them, changing enough words to avoid a copyright lawsuit.
2) It's true, but it's not on Google News for the simple reason that Google News is a US-centered, Anglophone-fixated, incomplete and largely apocryphal piece of shit.
Bild Zeitung is the equivalent to the Sun
Paris, because she made many appearances in both
...sounds rather recursive to me.
Paris because a leather trenchcoat may hide her doggishness.
Kanye has ruined my brain
Every time I read the phrase "of all time" I imagine it in Kanye West's voice :-S
"Yo Stalin, I'm really happy for you, I'ma Let you finish [massacring his own people, presumably], but Hitler is the greatest commander of all time, OF ALL TIME!"
Those who ignore history...
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it...
It's important that people are educated about the nazis, they are a historical fact that everyone should be taught about in school....
If you make it a taboo subject then that will increase peoples interest in them, and they will seek out their own sources of information which are likely to end up being pro-nazi propaganda rather than balanced educational material.
Not a taboo as such
Believe me, we Germans are educated about the nazis in school. When I went to school, history ended at 1945, because it took 3 years to educate us about the nazis. (That was in the early 80s, so Cold War, Vietnam etc. should have been mentioned too IMO.)
But the display of the nazi's symbols/propaganda outside of an educational context is illegal in Germany. That does clash with the ideal of Free Speech, but I am not sure, I'm really against it ...
So it looks like all mention of the war in Germany is illegal. How long before the people of Germany forget that it happened when they aren't allowed to talk about it and all literature / evidence of it is illegal to view or own.
It looks like they're launching a cover up to me.
It may look like it to you
But it isn't the truth.
Not exactly subtle.....
Yes, we are far enough removed from WW2 that we don't recall just how controversial "The Producers" (the movie version) and its send up of Nazi Germany was in its day. But still, I think most people would agree that an Adolph Hitler "we must destroy the Jews" ringtone is a serious breach of public decorum.
Black helicopters--because you just know they are full of blonde-haird, blue-eyed Nazi supermen!!
So long as he's allowed to sign off with a sig heil.
I mentioned the war once...
..but I think I got away with it.
History should be open, factual* and freely available to all.
After all, we don't want to go through THAT again!
* as factual as one can make it anyway.
Hitler... one of the worse military commanders of all time..
He was a huge and epic fail from a military viewpoint. The problem of course is that few read history and suffer from the delusion that Hitler was somehow a brilliant military strategist and commander. The common regurgitated crap of "blitzkrieg" that is attributed to Adolf himself.
Instead, one should read real history - diaries of commanders under Hitler, evidence from the Nueremburg trials, orders of battle given, post-battle reports, how forces were applied and how time and time again Hitler made the wrong decision, was indecisive, prevented his commanders from exploiting the dynamic situations and advantages on the battle field, and how many times he failed to grasp some of the very basic principles warfare.
And thank god for that as the German War Machine, its men and equipment, were arguably the best on the battle field at the time.
The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.
Yes, he was indeed quite crap as a commander.
Wasn't that high ranked himself anyway, iirc just Corporal pre politics.
A few of the best commanders axis side however were Rommel, Guderian, Steiner imo was good too, many more too, but probably too much to mention.
The men were best on the field due to commanders such as these.
It's irrelevant really whether he was competent or not - he still had a massive impact on history.
Calling the victim a Nazi
Not very happy about locking people up for their ring-tone. We're in no manner of danger from Nazis, and haven't been since 1945. The boy with but one ball is dead.
Indeed the eagerness with which some people label their political opponents "Nazi's" and "Fascists" should ring warning bells, when we read stories like this. These are pretexts to lock people up for their opinions.
The guy is obviously a nut; but how is this business different from what would have happened in Nazi Germany, if a man had a ring-tone criticising the Fuhrer? Only the "allowed" and "disallowed" differs.
How is anyone injured - really injured - by hearing Der Fuhrer screaming 50-year old nonsense about salvation being world domination by men in extremely tight boots? (Not that I want to hear it either, tho).
There's too much interference with the freedom of speech of people who are basically powerless but unpopular with the establishment. Today it is "Nazis" and "racists". Tomorrow it will be "Zionists".
I'm not sure whether "glorifying terrorism" did become a specific offence in UK - that is English - law, but I assume that you could commit it with a ringtone. And a modern phone can also probably play the sort of video that the secret police come and get you for.
At least he made the trains run on time.
And they haven't ripped up the autobahns either.
What a man does...
What a man does in the privacy of his own, erm, Fuhrer-bunker is up to him, surely? I always thought jackboots were their own punishment. :)
There's two issues here. Firstly there is the public nuisance issue -- nuisance ring tones in public. That's surely a minor public order offence. Then there is the "only certain opinions may be expressed". That's Nazism.
We all tend to treat Nazi's as comic, of course, like sensible people. But ... let's bear in mind, by the way, that the Nazi regime was a criminal regime, a regime of gangsterism. Law was basically a joke; the so-called "Fuhrerprincip" just meant that any Nazi could do whatever he felt like to anyone junior to him, unless Hitler would be upset. The law of the jungle was the only law. None of us want that. Those who do are (a) nuts and (b) often put up to it as provocateurs.
But we need to fight the battles of today for our liberrties, not the battles of 1939. Many of those shrieking about the "dangers" of "Nazism" mean to inflict their own tyranny on us under cover of this.
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