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back to article Oracle uses Sun as springboard in Q4

The first post-Sun-acquisition financial results are in for Oracle, and the software maker has turned a profit on its Sun business. But it's an operating profit, not a net profit with real black on the bottom line, and that does not take into account restructuring charges from layoffs and other tweaks to the Sun business. If not …

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Headmaster

Fire the Sun employees

Now that we've got control of Sun, it's time to fire the remainder of their workforce. Oracle people are high performance machines, disciplined, focused, we know how to deliver when called upon. Sun people are uniformly lazy, sloppy, produce marginal products and rarely deliver the goods. So hey Larry and Sara, it's time to take the trash out, and get Oracle people in charge!

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FAIL

RE: Fire the Sun employees

Meow! Saucer of milk for the Oracle table! So, that's how you win friends and motivate people in Redwood. Has someone been passed over for a promotion? Maybe someone needs to be reminded that Oracle actually knows next to nothing about building servers or writing OS code....

I'm not surprised the merging of two such different companies with two such different styles would cause internal strife, and I would expect the more profit-hungry Oracle staff to be gunning for the top jobs, but even a Sun-basher like myself would draw the line at labelling all ex-Sun employees "lazy, sloppy" or as "trash"! A little more humility would go a long way towards building a better Oracle, especially when you consider that, as a customer, I think Oracle's own products and processes (and people) are far from perfect. Looks like the new Snoreacle is going to be just as amusing as the old Sun!

/SP&L

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FAIL

As long as they cannot show a performance-leading product line, they can hire 1 bazillion sales guys of the highest calibre and don't get profits worth talking of (more than 4 % of captial used by the hardware biz).

I am not sure Larry is really aware of it considering what he utters. The issue clearly are dog-slow CPUs as compared to IBM and the x86 folks. It is not about more or better sales guys.

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Boffin

RE: FAIL

Hmmmm, maybe not. Much as I'd like to send the whole Sun experience off to Valhalla, it just doesn't look that certain yet. We did an internal strategy session on whether we should simply ignore Snoreacle for anything other than Oracle software, and the surprise conclusion was a "wait-and-see" consensus. Having the fastest CPUs is neither here nor there, we're more interested in the whole system package, and there is an outside chance Larry could pull it off. As summed up, this is how we saw it:

CONS - Sun's server hardware rep is in tatters after the hidden death of Rock and the general disbelief that Niagara can replace the hole left by the Nova systems not getting to market. The general uncertainty around Fudgeitso's SPARC64 doesn't bode well either. And they still seem to be working on a plan after having publicly admitted they never actually wanted the Sun hardware bizz, which Larry had hoped hp would buy.

PROS - McNeedy and Ponytail are history, and Larry is Larry. Larry has lots of cash in one hand and an axe in the other, and he is more than willing to use both. Larry has actually said some nice things about SPARC, spent some money on SPARC benchmarking, and shifted the focus off x64 by killing the Opteron option. All this makes him look more serious about SPARC. He has also started killing off Slowaris x86/x64 as a freebie, which makes it look like he is serious about making money from Slowaris as a real corporate product. And there is the chance he wil use SPARC and SLowaris as a subsidised platform for Oracle software, which we buy a lot of.

So, Snoreacle still aren't going to get the same consideration as Integrity or p-Series here, but we're not saying never again. All in all, it's going to be interesting and probably more than a little amusing!

/SP&L

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Stop

That would imply

...that they expect to ship a competitive SPARC System in the next 15 months or so. If they cannot do that, it will drag down the software business and Larry will have to dump the full hw biz.

Larry is not an EE guy, so this is a very risky strategy. Maybe he has reassembled the Rock Team and believes in their optimistic utterings. Which he must, as he has no EE competence.

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Boffin

RE: That would imply

Agreed, Larry has a deadline, and I actually would have put it closer to a year myself. But, lucky boy that he is, a great, big recession came along and put a lot of spending on hold, which means Larry has actually lost very little ground over the last twelve months. If we hadn't had the recession and simply carried on at 2008 purchasing levels we'd all be reading the final SPARC obituaries by now. Larry has probably less than six months to rekindle interest in SPARC-Slowaris with some real announcements, and probably twelve months tops to get a competitive solution to market. So, question is, can Fudgeitso get an eight-core SPARC64 into an M-series chassis by then? I simply can't see Niagara 3 or any CMT derivative being beefy enough to warrant attention. And can Larry get some sort of "converged" message, maybe FCoE from a third-party card vendor, to help him shift more Exedatas?

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Joke

Not even going to read the comments on this thread.

I'm just going to go out on a limb and say "much Matt Bryant bashing Sun," "HP is so awesome," "bad nicknames that are thought to be witty will be thrown around."

Okay. I just scrolled up, and Matt's already at it. There isn't even a need to read them; just to note that it's an article about Sun, and three out of six comments (at the time i type this) are from MB. I'll just mentally copy and past the past several years of MB sun threads in its place and move on to the next article.

Predictability, yeah!

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RE: Not even going to read the comments on this thread.

See, Trev, that's the problem with the old Sunshiner "if-you-don't-tell-me-want-I-want-to-believe-every-time-I'm-just-going-to-ignore-you" mentality. If anything, my posts were supportive of the idea that SPARC-Slowaris might have a future if Larry gets his act together. If there's any predictability involved it's just the usual myopic behaviour of the typical Sunshiner.

/SP&L

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Unhappy

Sunshiner?

I have a single open Solaris box, and no SPARC hardware. I'm a Microsoft and Redhat man through and through. White box and run everything on a shoestring budget.

If you think for a second I’m a “sunshiner” just because I find the “Matt Bryant vs. Sun and beating the HP drum” bit more tired than Apple bashing, then I got some sad news for you, friend. Whole other world than the one I live in. I get my chances to play with mainframes, and (sadly) Itanium junk, but it’s nothing I have deployed on any of the networks I maintain 24/7. I even have to support a few when some buddies of mine are on vacation and I cover them.

There’s no question of ignoring you because you “tell me what I don’t want to hear.” Since I don’t use *any* of that crap, I actually couldn’t care less if HP or Sun or IBM won, lost, or burned and died. It’s all completely irrelevant.

What does get under my skin is the “hey, here’s an article about this sector of technology that I only get to dabble in. Cool, let’s see what the comments say, maybe I’ll learn something.” In most threads, I even do learn something, the debates and comments are useful and informative.

It generally works that way until I see “Sun” (or “Oracle” now,) in the article anywhere, and then see “Matt Bryant” in the comments. Any article with those two elements is a gigantic “THREAD DERAILED” stamp of troll, counter-troll, and spiralling arguments and brutal sarcasm.

If I take enough time to filter the troll/counter-troll MB/Sun noise from these threads, there often is good information to be extracted, but it just takes a lot more effort. I’ve no stake in any of the companies or technologies involved here. Personally, I think HP are a bunch of greedy, evil, soulless bastards with nothing approaching corporate ethics and worse hardware. They are superseded only be Ellison and his pet company who I trust even less. (Frankly, I can’t think of a thing Oracle made that price/performance is worth it.) Sure, if you want super-ultra-high-end, then you are talking to HP, Oracle and IBM. Find, the ultra-super-deluxe high end can have ‘em.

In the low end and midrange, all three of those companies can take a flying leap, and everything they ever created. They don’t help me do my job at all, and since I am most like to be an SME admin for the rest of my existence, they won’t be helping me do my job ever.

That doesn’t mean that it isn’t part of my job to learn about them. Learn everything there is to know about every facet of the IT world that I can. Keeping informed and abrest of as much as possible gives me a competitive edge, and it lets me know when things change.

A great example actually is HP. As much as I personally despise much of the business practices of HP, they are still eleventeen squillion times better under Hurd than they were under Fiorina. If I didn’t constantly update my knowledge of these companies, then I would have stuck with my first impression of them, and never considered them for a second for anything.

As it stands now, while I have problems with them, there are certain areas I feel they have reformed enough that you could almost trust buying equipment from them and believing it wasn’t made form the cheapest possible parts with virtually zero hope of making it past the warrantee period.

Who knows, maybe in ten years, they will have put the bad old days of Fiorina and Hurd behind them, and started producing the best gear on the planet: stable, cheap, and ready to live for ten years without blinking.

Until then, I’d just love to be able to read threads about these companies without the entire thing getting derailed by the ten tonne Sun thread troll.

If that seems mean, or makes me seem like I am “a sunshiner,” I’m sorry. I just want to learn, and having read literally years of Matt Bryant Sun threads, I can’t consider any of the cyclic arguing that goes on in these things remotely objective unbiased or reliable information. I don’t say this to be mean. I’m just tired of having to spend my time on Ars’ HPC forums to learn anything about this stuff, when El Reg is part of my daily routine, and the forum threads are right here.

It’s like having to go to the coffee shop down the street to get a packet of sugar for your coffee because there’s always this guy sitting right in front of the sugar packets at the excellent coffee shop that’s in your work.

Again, this isn’t meant as an attack, or to be mean…but things like “Slowaris?” Come on, man…please? I recognise that you have a lot of experience with the big heavies of IT, but how many years of this before we can just discuss these subjects like adults? No name calling, no vitriol, just an honest sharing of knowledge without the crap.

After all this time, I think we get how you feel about the guys who ran Sun, and how you feel about Itanium, and HP and all the rest. It’d done. Done and dead and dusted a long, long time ago.

So no; no “sunshiner.” I’m not one now, nor will I ever be, and isn’t about time to drop the whole ridiculous moniker at all? I mean, for the love $deity, the company doesn’t even exist anymore.

Anyways, this is a huge rambling rant now, but consider it an honest request: enough with the pathetic names and vitriol man.

Please?

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Happy

RE: Sunshiner?

Apologies if you feel you have been caught in the cross-fire between the UNIX dinosaurs, but it's an old war that's been raging for so long it's become almost reflex. But I'm a trifle amused that someone that manages Linux and M$ feels at odds with a flamewar given that the Linux vs M$ one has raged for almost as long as that between the UNIX dinosaurs, so I have to conclude you must have spent a lot of time either with your head in the sand or asleep at the console. I will admit, after many years of having to suffer the Sunshiner hordes FUDing any other platform (including your Microsoft and Linux), there are those of us that backed other options that are taking vindictive glee in rubbing salt into the wounds of the Snoreacle zombie. Yes, Sun is dead, but that's no reason to stop a good flamewar! After all, we'll be passionately debating Lampard's goal for many years to come, and where's the valus in that?

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Unhappy

@Matt Bryant

No, I've just no respect for anyone that needs to FUD any platform ever. It's one thing to make a few jokes (ha ha) that are honestly in jest. Especially at Apple's expense. But to truly be unable to see the value in all technologies regardless of origin, or to doggedly stick to bashing one company/product/technology etc. for years on end every single time it's brought up...

Well, that causes me to lose any respect for anyone in that situation. I can't stand the people who bash MS all the time, or the Linux distro flame wars either. Fortunately, most of the worst offenders of that simply don't stick around on El Reg. Those that do pursue such childish proclivities here are very quickly called out for it.

And so in the greatest of El Reg traditions, I'm calling you out for it. There’s a whole entire internet for people to wage their petty little nerd-peen warefare. Do you honestly feel that you have to do it here?

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Happy

RE: @Matt Bryant

"No, I've just no respect for anyone that needs to FUD any platform ever...." So, you can diss Apple, does that mean you have no respect for yourself?

"....But to truly be unable to see the value in all technologies regardless of origin, or to doggedly stick to bashing one company/product/technology etc. for years on end every single time it's brought up..." <Sigh> And here's where we point out that you should READ the posts before venting. If you want just repetitive regurgitation of FUD with an obvious reason for bias then your best examples are Ms Park and Jesper. If you had actually READ some of my recent posts you would see I actually think Larry has a chance with the SPARC servers but he needs to make some concrete announcements and get a good roadmap out ASAP to stand a chance. Now, how is that bashing?

"....I can't stand the people who bash MS all the time, or the Linux distro flame wars either....." Sorry, but you must be very boring to work with! I'm guessing you're also one of those types that thinks discussions on religeon, politics and sex shopuld be banned from the workplace just in case you upset someone's over-sensitive sensibilities?

".....Those that do pursue such childish proclivities here are very quickly called out for it....." Yeah, well most of us have quite serious jobs, so a little humour on the side is actually not such a bad thing. If you are looking for the technical equivalent of the complete works of Shakespeare on these forums, undistilled by humour or opinion, then I really suggest you go read the vendor's forums instead.

".....And so in the greatest of El Reg traditions, I'm calling you out for it...." And I'm telling you to go get a sense of humour transplant.

".....There’s a whole entire internet for people to wage their petty little nerd-peen warefare. Do you honestly feel that you have to do it here?" Actually, the Internet isn't divided up into neat little zones, it's kind of a Wild West. The control is actually enforced by the forums moderator here - if they really thought the posts here weren't suitable then they wouldn't allow them. But I suspect the team at The Reg has far too much experience of the average jaded IT drone to expect us to be anything other than sarcastic, informed, opinionated and willing to vent. Sorry, but this forum is part of that "entire internet".

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@Trevor / MB comments

usually just reminds me of a (very) old article about Acorn's research in the 1980s. The "forward object-orientated lookahead" .....

on the other hand, it gives the rest of us something to laugh at. Not about, at.

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Exadata V2 - Larry thinks you are an idiot

"We are nearing one Billion in Exadata sales pipeline"

They only sold 20 in 1Q and less than 40 in the first six months.

I guess Larry does not want to say they cant sell more than 40, but would rather say he has a pipeline of sales that includes every Oracle software customer.

Word is they will OEM Dell x86 just like Teradata does and the V2 customers will be SOL just like the V1 customers.

Allison

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Re: Exadata V2 - Larry thinks you are an idiot

"Word is they will OEM Dell x86 just like Teradata does and the V2 customers will be SOL just like the V1 customers."

Really? Whose word? IBM's? Quit being an IBM troll and lurking around the online rags and looking for Oracle/Sun articles to post FUD and promote IBM. Get a job....unless that is your IBM job.

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