Anyone hoping the new-design Xbox 360 will treat game discs more gently than its predecessors have been claimed to is set to be disappointed. Following the new machine's unveiling at the E3 event this week, website Destructoid had a play with one on the show flow. Alan Wake was playing - you can read Reg Hardware's review here …
Portable CD & DVD players have been around for years, both hand held and in the car and I'm not aware of them being really bad for scratching disks, so why can't MS get it sorted so that the Xbox doesn't scratch them?
Not rocket science
Probably because video DVDs and audio CDs rotate at a fraction of the speed that a DVD-ROM does inside an Xbox.
If you pick up you console and shake it like he did in the video then you deserve it
At least it doesn't set itself alight and burn your house down any more.
Leaping around in front of the console?
I wouldn't have thought it would make that much of a difference tbh
The console generally resides underneath/beside the TV, and I can't imagine many people will be leaping around there...
Still, seems a bit odd they wouldn't rectify the situation. It's been nowhere near as wide-spread as RRoD but still enough of an issue that even unaffected users are aware of the risks.
Interesting though this is, it would have been much much funnier had the new 360's started RRoD'ing :P
The reason people don't move their consoles much while discks are spinning is that the console is out of the way, right? If you put the blasted thing in the middle of the floor, you can expect it to get broken pretty much straight away.
 I can't remember who uses c and who uses k in disck, so I used both. At least I didn't write diskc.
Put the console somewhere it will not be touched while playing? Or is that just to simple?
There's nothing actually connected between you and the Kinect unit so I can't see how that's going to be a problem. After all, I've a Wii and after a great deal of leaping around (looking stupid) in front of it I've never managed to hit it (or the TV, or anything else for that matter).
And, anyone moving any electrical gear whilst it's turned on is asking for trouble - everything does have the warning "switch off before moving" in the instructions after all. Spinning things don't like being moved - that's physics - even MS can't really change that...
What kind of noob moves a device whilst a CD/DVD is spinning?
Let alone knocking a device with a spinning hard disk in it?
FAIL for people who don't understand gyroscopic effects on spinning objects, what do schools teach these days? "How to be a noob" I guess.
News just in: Moving a vertically oriented disc drive while there's a disc spinning in it at 500rpm STILL scratches the disc.
In other news, pope still catholic.
You want mobile gaming, then buy a PSP.
I'm sorry, but the same thing would probably happen if I moved my PC while a disc was spinning up. The XBox was not intended to be moved while in play. If you all of a sudden take the urge to reposition all the furniture in your room midway through a game of CoD then you need to take the consequences.
Also, as my XBox lives under the TV, if it does get booted in the name of Kinect gaming, then the TV is highly likely to get booted first, and I don't need to tell you which costs more!
why hasnt this been fixed?
this happened on the last one. surly a new one should have addressed this? I had a portable CD player in 1998, and it didnt scratch cds when i ran around. so whats the issue for MS?
It's no good...
......ye canna change the laws of physics!
Apple Pie filling is hot!
Inserting genitals into bacon slicer will result in mangling!
I've have 3 consoles (due to the the RRoD), never had a problem with the mythical disc scratching issue in either the horiztontal or vertical positions.
If you move a disc based device while the disc is spinning, you deserve everything you get.
Doesn't everyone install stuff to the hard drive these days anyway? That way the disc only spins up to confirm its there and thats it.
Bouncy Wooden Floor Boards?
>untouched once Kinect motion detector accessories are plugged in and kids start leaping around in front of the console?
Good point.. considering how bouncy wooden floors are in a good proportion of houses in Blighty.
People are still buying these?
"move it a tad" - big understatement
The article actually said "Nick picked up the system to move it from horizontal to vertical position while the game was booting". The video shows it was about 45 degrees when they stopped trying to move it due to the grinding noise.
Seriously? Its not really a problem with the xbox but the user if they decide its a good idea to move it while its got a disc spinning in it. It will happen with any device spinning a disc, move a dvd player while you're watching a dvd and see what happens, or a laptop while its installing something.
I accidentally rated this article as poor because I saw the little bar at the bottom and thought it was a link to other pages. Turns out this is only a one page article and I clicked the "rate this page" button.
Sorry! This is actually a good article!
How long with Microsoft take to get it right?
They have claimed to have fixed the heat/noise/disc scratching problems in every revision of Xbox, and it never transpires to be true.
How long can they continue to fool gamers?
How long will it take to get it right? (is 5 years not enough?)
How long before they give up trying to make hardware, and stick to what they know?
Any CD Drive that doesn't use the "plug it to the spindle" method (Like Laptop Slimline Drives) can suffer this issue. Try moving a desktop PC with a CD spinning at 52x, and you'll scratch it as it bounces around.
The problem with the CD Scratches on the original xboxes were a mix of people moving them while running, and some of the xbox drives missing internal foam "bumpers" that CD Drives normally have to reduce the risk of scratches - see http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/news/Xbox-360-Game-Disc-Scratched.htm
So, as long as the new Xbox isn't any more prone to this issue than a regular desktop CD Drive, I don't see the problem - common sense should dictate not to move a sophisticated piece of kit around when running at full tilt.
P.S. - As a sidenote, I own all three next gen consoles, and the only one I have had a problem with was my Wii: Launch day wii's had some issues reading Dual Layer disks that didn't show up until the first DL game, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, came out. One quick call to Nintendo and it got sent off for a complimentary fix.
Its a bog standard DVD drive
From BENQ in the more recent models - earlier have Hitachi or Samsung drives. No more or less likely to scratch a disc than any PC, Mac or DVD player. If people are moving them around with the disc spinning they are dumb.
Optical disks flex when their enclosure is moved? Never!
It's been very disappointing to read some ill thought out or slanted articles in El Reg lately.
Unless the author can say the PS3 and Wii, etc are immune then this is something that should never have been published.
Maybe it's cause I work in IT, but logic and experience would tell me not to move any device at the same time it's reading from optical... Plus who the hell is watching their 360 thinking "hmmm, left a bit... right a bit" when they are in the middle of playing a game?
Dare I say it?
Our PS3 has never scratched a disc.
maintain they didnt move it much?
From the link-
'You see, despite the warning on the front of the new Xbox 360, Nick picked up the system to move it from horizontal to vertical position while the game was booting'
Now how many of you have tried that while a disc was spinning in any drive?
"are Xbox 360s to remain untouched once Kinect motion detector accessories are plugged in and kids start leaping around in front of the console?"
Well, my family and other animals have been jumping around in front of the Wii for a couple of years now, and we haven't had to move that console. Don't see why it should be any different for the 360.
No complaints about moving PCs with spinning discs in them? I'm sure that would scratch them to buggery as well, but again raises the question "Why would you?"
Anyone that can't follow a short, simple instruction of 'don't fucking move it while it's switched on' deserves to get their discs scratched TBH.
At least Kinect will hopefully enable the simpletons to be ushered even further away from the hardware, therefore even further reducing the chances of scratched disks.
Destructoid 's monkeys just couldn't leave well enough alone could they? They had to see what would happen when they got their grubby paws on it, knowing full well what the most likely outcome would be - and then being surprised when that outcome materialised.
ElReg taking story tips from Fanbois now?
[Thanks to reader Mark for the tip.]
That wouldn't be Sony fanboi MarkOne, noted XBox hater and regional SDF leader by any chance?
Re: ElReg taking story tips from Fanbois now?
By chance, no.
PS3 and Wii don't suffer this issue. Ever heard of these consoles scratching discs, it's almost unheard of.
The point is, people jumping around with the EyeToy (sorry Kinnect) connected will move the console in most suspended floor homes.
It's clear the Xbotch is still stuff with cheap crappy components, and Microsoft are hoping a shiny box will turn their fortunes around.
CD transports that must tolerate movement without damaging discs...
Regardless of whether the system should be moved or not, people do move them while on and "things" happen. I don't think it reasonable to expect that a disc in the system will be intact if you just dropped it on the floor or threw it at the wall, but you certainly shouldn't be doing those things if you are!
The simple fact of the matter is that there are optical disc transports that must tolerate bumps, vibration and movement, some of which is particularly severe. Every in-dash CD player ever put into a car has to deal with this on a daily basis, and it's obvious that the bumps and jars to which those are exposed are greater than a gaming system should ever have to deal with. The very most of them do not scratch discs when this happens...they just cope with it using a buffer memory to alleviate skipping or mistracking and move on. So...it can be and is done on a daily basis.
The simple fact of the matter is that the Xbox 360 seems to be a poor design and built to a price in the extreme. There is simply no other excuse for the continual failures of logic boards, video chips and the abuse that the optical drive could inflict on a disc placed into it.
With very rare exceptions, all audio cd players run at the same speeds they did when they first came out. There's only 700 MB of data on them at most and the corresponding music has a playtime of about 74 minutes. You don't need to spin very fast to draw a little under 10 MB a minute.
Your xbox 360 on the other hand is dealing with a disc with 4.5 GB on it, and at that same rate of transfer it'd take about 7.5 hours to finish reading that dis, which you'd find rather unacceptable. There are some differences in read methods for dvds which account for some of this transfer difference, but a lot of it comes down to rotating the disc substantially faster.
In short it's one hell of a lot easier to control something going relatively slowly than something going very very fast.
And In Car Navigation?
OEM Satellite Navigation Systems are usually DVD based and do not suffer from this issue. I doubt the rotation speed has anything to do with the issue as even at CD speed damage could be done.
"Don't worry honey, I'll be out of your way just as soon as I've finished cleaning; I just have to dust under the XBox."
An XBox is NOT a CD/DVD/PC media player.
Sure, it can do those things, but first and foremost, people buy the things so they can play games on them.
There's the odd 43 year old gametard who thinks they're going to the world championship XBox games, but they're just idiots. Most players are your typical child/teen/early twenties person who uses the XBox for, shock, horror, playing games. Who would have thought?
And *that's* where the "you wouldn't do this to your PC/CD/DVD player" argument fails. The XBox/PS/Wii/whatever are NOT PCs, CD players or DVD players, they are games consoles. And more importantly, they are treated as such.
And so they should be. The *environment* is very different.
Need I say that Sony hasn't had problems with THEIR players in very much the same environment?
Need I say that Sony probably spent two more bucks on their trays ensuring the disks are not going to crash against the sides when some kid pulls on the handset lead? Or moves it because they don't want to step on it, or sneezes?
Moving a console while it's reading
That will be a problem for me. I have my entertainment kit on a rack with Castor wheels that I rotate to face the bed when I feel lazy, rotate to face the Mac when I'm video capturing (the audio and video out connectors of the TV is hooked up to a Mac's video capture device), or rotate to face forwards when it's unused so there's space for me to walk around. I imagine popping in a disc and then rotating the rack would be a bad idea. Unfortunately that happens a lot with my PS3 and Wii, and both has not displayed any bad habits of disc-scratching when I rotate the rack while they have a game disc in them.
new 360 scratches
well it dont suprise me at all all of the 360s have always had scratching issues the white one black one and now this new shiny black one. lets see how long it takes before somone who buys this new console gets a rrod. not only that but ends up with scratched disks as a result microsoft just cant get it right maybe they should stick to operating systems and not games consoles i had a rrod in the first 11 months when i bought it and mines the elite console which i didnt expect would get it. what will happen is if microsoft doesnt sort thease problems out il be moving back to sony end of.