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back to article Apple reels as Steve Jobs Flashturbates

There was a time when Steve Jobs and Apple were cool. Jobs built a genius-like persona that was founded on his rare appearances and statements, and this was bolstered by his ability to deliver products that looked good, worked well, and forced others to follow. But 2010 is turning into the year Steve Jobs and Apple lost that …

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FAIL

Gee, Gavin, read The Reg's anti-Apple-ite fan rantings much?

Losing their cool? You've got to be kidding. Who other than the "I won't do anything but Linux/Android" crowd and the "Windows makes me cream my pants when I think of Bill Gates" crowd would share these thoughts of yours that Apple is losing its cool?

Apple is at the top of its game, and if they manage to move the web to open standards where everyone wins, hooyah! Who the fuck cares that their competitors are upset. OMFG, I've upset the competitors - I'm sure Steve loses sleep over that one not one bit.

Do you think the Grannie who just bought an iPad knows anything of the HTML5 war? Do you think she gives a flying fuck that some developer apps have been not approved? Has she ever heard of the walled garden issue that some techies have with Apple products?

The answer of course is no. Apple has just achieved 2nd largest market cap company - they are at the top of their game, and this article is nothing but a sop to all the anti-Apple-ites on this (and other) forums. Sit back and watch them all, "yeah, I agree" over and over and over and over again while they all come up with more and more ways to say, "I'm better than anyone who likes an Apple product."

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Troll

some random title.

You may even be right, but i think Apple is now at the stage where Jobs is doing far more bad than good, and really wants to be pushed.

I probably wont buy another apple product until they do. Dont particularly care about the Linux/Windows thing. I use both. I am old enough not to give a Damn about the politics of that particular argument.

However, Jobs seems to be far too combatative. Not just Adobe, but their independant developers also regularly feel a Jobsian toungue-lashing ("No, you cant put that in the App store. No were not going to tell you why."). I've worked for bosses like that. I didnt like it much then either.

There really must be a shedload of profit for Iphone apps that do pass the Jobsian Gestapo, because i have no idea why independant developers would otherwise want to develop for it.

Your correct in that the average granny doesnt give a toss about such things, but I do. Ah well.

C'est la Vie.

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Silver badge

Pains me to say it, but this is bang on.

Developers may be angry, IT professionals and others "in the know" may be sneering at Apple/Jobs, but the punters are lapping up the product and care nothing for the story behind it.

Ignorance is bliss...

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But the bigger you are the harder you fall and ...

... oh I cannot be bothered to explain to somebody who has zero clue about business!

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Open standards... where?

How is any of this about open standards if Apple has gone to incredible effort to lock down its IPhone/Pad platforms? There are death row inmates that have more freedom of expression than IPhone app developers. Additionally, there is all this talk of openness and a patent pool at the same time. Clearly, the point of this patent pool is a gathering to find grounds to engage in legal action opposed to protecting their legal ground from action. I want to say this all my Apple-hating cult-defying bias except that Apple did put out a HTML5 demo page that is all about this openness, but was in fact not open.

This talk of openness in the context of Apple's conduct and business direction seems more than an ethical accident and rather a blatant lie. Honestly, I am absolutely astonished people are still drinking from the Apple punch at this stage in the game. If Apple were really about openness they would allow Flash on their platforms and provide their user's a method to disable Flash that is engaged by default. They would also not publish open standard demo pages that are anything but open, as well as a host of other openness defying behaviors.

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Paranoid Much ??

Apple aren't moving the web to open standards, given that the media tags used in the demo display H.264 video, not an open standard video.

The web already has open standards, it's called HTML4 - you can read many books all about it.

The point you seem to have missed, is that Apple isn't pushing any standards at all and certainly not open ones. HTML5 has been in the works for a number of years, long before Apple decided that they were the evangelists of the web. More to the point, the demo isn't even a demo of HTML5 - there are so many additional elements involved in the demo that to call it a demo of HTML5 is simply wrong.

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I'm better than anyone who likes an Apple product.

I'm better than anyone who likes an Apple product.

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FAIL

are you Steve Jobs in disguise?

Seriously though... you need to get your head out of your arse... there is a valid point being raised here if you put the Apple/Adobe shite aside - HTML5...

The problem with these so called "standards" is that they really aren't, a lot is left to the interpretation of various vendors (no surprise there as they are behind the whole shebang), and we have the current situation where each vendor has its own interpretation of the "vague" parts of the standard.

The W3C needs to man up here, and remove any vagaries from the standard, constraining vendors to specific technologies - of course this will never happen, if they did the vendors will go away and no cushy jobs at the W3C...

The situation will be worse than when the original HTML specs came out, at least then you had the IE way of doing things and the Mosaic way of doing things, now we're going to have Safari/Chrome/Mozilla/IE/Opera, each purporting to support standards but in reality, it's their own interpretation of the standards. End result, miserable lives for web developers, so in reality, they are not better off...

Who cares about developers, it's the end user experience that matters I hear you say... This type attitude really is bollocks, innovation will suffer as developers will have to focus instead on getting consistency across platforms, so it will be the end user that suffers long term... And what's going to happen, well Adobe (or something similar) will release a product which will work consistently across all browsers..

oh wait...

HTML5 = EPIC FAIL

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Badgers

Ignore the ranting types, they'll get bored eventually...

"and if they manage to move the web to open standards where everyone wins, hooyah!"

You have a point about the fanboy subset of commenters, but it seems you've taken something very different from this article than I did. I can see how it might appear to be a sop to the anti-Apple posters, but the main thing I took from it is an interpretation of the ongoing Apple/Adobe spat over Flash and the protracted "open standards" conversation as a potentially huge threat to Apple's brand and reputation.

I'm not a big fan of Apple chiefly down to their support offerings, but I can recognise what they do well and why they're exceptionally popular amongst their target markets. I've heard this variously characterised as "focused on user experience" or "selling a complete package", but they clearly offer something to the end-user that rival vendors don't. That's a compelling USP and one that I can easily respect regardless of personal preferences.

Shifting the focus of the conversation to something like "open standards" when a large part of Apple's success with the user-experience aspect of their products has been specifically down to retaining as much control over their platforms as possible is a recipe for disaster. Talk about "open standards" will inevitably lead people to discuss associated topics like open-source software and peer review. At which point certain uncomfortable issues will crop up, including:

the seemingly-arbitrary nature of some App Store rules and their enforcement (well within Apple's rights in terms of protecting their platform and branding, but not particularly "open" in the sense usually used in the context of "open standards" or "open source";

their approach to fixing security issues such as the long-standing and baffling drive-by-download issue in Safari on OS X (which won't fare well in discussions about the benefits of open source software);

the existence of non-Apple software that also conforms to the open standards in question, while also being open source;

the spate of suicides at Foxconn's factory (widely described as an "iPhone factory" and thus something that, fairly or otherwise, will likely be blamed on Apple rather than Foxconn)

I'm not for one second suggesting that all of these are relevant to the discussion - but that's not the point. The point is that moving the conversation away from the Apple focus on user-experience and towards open-standards (which pretty much requires comparisons between products and companies) suddenly opens Apple up to a bunch of criticisms that can't easily be dismissed.

It's kind of hard to get level-headed discussion on this sort of thing at the minute, because almost all internet discussion about Apple seems to be polarised. But whether you like Apple or not, it has to be pretty straightforward to see it's not a good idea for Apple's head honcho to spend a bunch of time publicly reframing the discussion of Apple's products away from what they do well (user experience and selling a complete package) and towards something they don't do so well (open source/standards).

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Where are all the grannies?

Why do people always bang on about these "Grannies who just bought an iPad"? Has anybody actually met one?

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Gold badge

@WilliamLondon

No matter how good your platform, it is useless without developers. If you alienate the people who would otherwise have written quality applications for your platform, it will go the way of all other "superior" operating systems before it.

Having the best or the shiniest or the most religiously pure technology isn't enough. You need to have the support of developers, businesses and customers. Apple has customer support, (for now,) but they are the most fickle bunch. If Apple loses developer or business support, they will lose the customers as well.

Apple can make good gear when they choose, but their marketing and control freakery decisions are beginning to have an impact. It has nothing to do with “I’m better than an Apple lover.” It has everything to do with “I want to be able to make money from the applications I create.” Platform companies like Apple or Microsoft have a hard task: they need to take a skim off of everything in order to stay in the billions, but that skim can’t be too high or else they drive everyone away. At the same time, they need to give the appearance of consistency and easy-to-understand rules, regulations and even development APIs and environments. If I code my application for your platform, I need to know that it won’t be arbitrarily rejected, have the APIs yanked out from under it in the next version, or that some change in the rules prevent me from accessing my revenue source. (Such as in-application advertising.)

I know I’ve said this before just recently, but IT isn’t about religious ideology. It’s business.

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Grenade

Put down the crack pipe

What does market cap and making a profit have to do with a criticism of Steve Jobs and his personal obsession with killing off Flash or his psychotic compulsion to prevent people from having rights over the contents of the devices they purchase? If you like Apple and it's products, good for you. But this article doesn't really point out anything that isn't readily apparent to those following the tech industry as a whole. Jobs and Apple have a well-documented history that lines up (mostly) with the claims and statements of the article.

Also, what fucking planet are you from, to think that people on this site are so enamored with Window$ and Micro$haft that they display the same idiotic thinking about MS that you so clearly do about Apple? You're definitely NOT reading that here. I'm certain that El Reg can count on one hand the number of MS homers on this site.

The sound you hear is reality passing you by.

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Jobs Horns

What is iPad?

Do you think the Grannie who just bought an iPad knows anything of the HTML5 war?

No, the Grannie wonders why a Lego brick has replaced the content on lots of web pages, why here favourite website is missing half of it's content and what is this Adobe Flash thing?

Take it from me, I have both an iPad and a Grannie and have tried them together.

Whilst forcing Standards upon people is sometimes the only way to change luddites, If it's at the cost of a large percentage of the web's content not working it's not a good option and will only result in lots of returns of the product.

What is iPad? A way of removing £700 quid from people with waaaaaay too much money.

I want a Grannie Icon please.

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WTF?

Hmmm...

...Apple fanboys aren't what they used to be, the effort to make a coherent arguement seems to have escaped this one entirely.

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Coat

What a well reasoned counter-argument

by the commentor above... Seriously, with fanbois like this Stevey can pretty much do as he pleases because they will lap up and promote any partly digested stuff he throws. The point is that Apple have set in place the positive feedback loop between more users and more quality apps and content that is hard to break. The only thing that can stop them is competitors who get their act together and make something compelling... These tech forum articles and comments can do little against whatever Apple chooses to do, notwithstanding walled garden and standards violations.

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Stop yer whinging...

...el Reg is an equal-opportunity tech basher, and Gavin's name got drawn from the hat to be fanboi Andrew's counterpoint.

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Gee, WillianLondon, have we even read the same article?

Apart from the Pot calling the Kettle "black" (you rant on that non-Applers are ranting against Apple), your comment misses the entire point of view of the article.

At no point did the author even talk about the end user (your proverbial "Grannie") - the article was about the stance Apple in general (and Steve Job in particular) are taking in the *IT* world. Not the *user* world. It was discussing the fact that Apple and Jobs were now making spurious statements about personal pet-peeves which had a roll-on effect in the *IT Professional* world. (my interpretation of the article, YMMV). It didn't address Joe Public or *their* perception of the War of Words currently raging between Apple and Adobe (and Google, and Microsoft, and...)

And it was correctly pointing out that if Apple/Jobs continue being belligerent and having over-the-top knee-jerk reactions, they would alienate the very people who make the iP* Apple's killer product - the Apps programmers. Because let's face it - for all the technological marvel you may (or may not) see in the iP* series, they would be failures had it not be for the apps available in iTunes. And if you piss off the App developers for long enough, they will eventually move on.

I myself am Tech-agnostic: I don't give a damn *who* makes the product so long as it does what I need it to do and does it well (for as cheap as possible while maintaining a certain level of quality or higher). So I have WD drives (because I never had problems with them) in all my PCs, which run a combination of Linux or XP (depending on what they need to do), I have a HTC phone dual booting Windows and Android. I have a Sony Amp, a Panasonic DVD player and a Samsung LED TV and, yes, I'll admit I do not have a single Apple product. Why? Because they have not yet made a product I need to fulfil a need I have. That's all. (although the iPad comes close, I admit it... but I have no real need for it)

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Unhappy

WillLondon ...

OK and breathe...

I think you have missed a lot of the pretty good points made in this article by just blowing it all as soon as something slightly critical of Apple's approach appears.

At present, Apple is doing more harm towards the creation of a universally adopted platform agnostic HTML5 standard than is good for all of us in the longer term than any of the other browser vendors. They are behaving like Microsoft did in the 90s when a slew of proprietary IE extensions left us with the web we still have lingering on today.

And everybody is a loser if that happens again, sadly.

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@Kappie save a something

Hmmm, what does market cap and making a profit have to do with the article? What does it have to do with cool is more what you should be asking, because that's the whole point of the article. The point made is that it is a bit silly to declare Apple uncool when people are flocking to its products in record numbers. Yeah, really uncool company. I think the ones who think Apple is uncool are a small and vocal minority that believe everything they read and feel they know SJ better than their own mothers.

Now, perhaps, it's you who should put the crack pipe down (and pass it this way<grin>).

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Anonymous Coward

@Bendy

Patience. The web won't change overnight, but it is changing and those little blue legos become fewer every day. Patience. Rome wasn't built in a day.

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Stop

RE: Open standards... where?

"How is any of this about open standards if Apple has gone to incredible effort to lock down its IPhone/Pad platforms?"

Flash != open.

"There are death row inmates that have more freedom of expression than IPhone app developers."

That's completely right. Now take your medication before we're forced to tie your arms behind your back. Yes, there are applications that are not allowed on the iPhone/iPod but these are a tiny minority (less than 0.1%) and there are also things that are not allowed (code interpreting) but this is a valid way of preserving the quality of the user experience. Developers who can code in C/C++/ Java are not affected at all...

"Apple did put out a HTML5 demo page that is all about this openness, but was in fact not open."

Yes they did a mistake on their part. It is HTML5 though - just change your browsers identifying ID and every HTML5 compatible browser will work just fine ;)

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Badgers

RE: I'm better than anyone who likes an Apple product.

Well, you've certainly wasted less money on useless tat. Whether that makes you a better person, I couldn't say.

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Big Brother

Re: AC @ 11:14

Never said that Apple was or wasn't cool, but sure as hell didn't overreact to an article that can be found in spades across the whole of the Internet. The whole point of the article, pretty clearly, was about the negative impact that Steve Jobs (and his psycho tendencies) is finally having on the perception of Apple and its products. Do you even understand what reading comprehension is? WTF?

You can gladly have the crack pipe all to yourself. And it would still greatly behoove you to get a solid dose of reality for a change. Apple has made a dramatic comeback from the verge of irrelevance, only for Jobs to become to big for his britches. Don't you remember the 1984 commercial? Apple was the anti-establishment computer company. Now what are they? Big Brother. So put that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

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Grenade

Irony is best served cold with coleslaw and chips

This article cracks me up - today, with my 1.6GHz Core Duo laptop and 4G RAM, my laptop that is fast enough to handle any damn thing - it took Firefox 3.6.3 exactly 40 seconds to completely load The Reg's home page - YES, I timed it, damn it, just so you could read it here!

WHY did it take so damned long? Because of all the FLASH on the right-hand side of The Reg's home page, specifically something from legolas-media(dot)com stalled loading the page for 25 seconds.

And I completely agree with WilliamLondon. Apple's competitors are upset? Well, gee, Apple MUST be doing something RIGHT then, huh?

Flash has become bulky, clunky, cumbersome - and unstable.

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FAIL

Grannie?

"Do you think the Grannie who just bought an iPad knows anything of the HTML5 war?"

Grannies don't buy iPads. Trendy twats with far too much money buy them to use as toys. Check the demographics.

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Linux

Journalists love to neglect details...

> Why do people always bang on about these "Grannies who just bought an iPad"? Has anybody > actually met one?

Granny has to set her wifi up first.

Then she needs to have a copy of iTunes running on a regular PC to activate and manage the iPad with.

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Linux

Liberty vs. Tyranny

It doesn't matter if Flash is open or not. I should be at liberty to use it and disable it as I see fit.

It isn't about how good or bad the choice is but the fact that I am free to make it and don't have something rammed down my throat by some corporation that undoubtedly is only looking out for it's own financial interests.

Are you really naieve enough to trust an American corporation to do the right thing?

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Linux

Sheeple consumers will always be fleeced.

> This article cracks me up - today, with my 1.6GHz Core Duo laptop and 4G RAM,

> my laptop that is fast enough to handle any damn thing - it took Firefox 3.6.3 exactly

> 40 seconds to completely load The Reg's home page - YES, I timed it, damn it, just

> so you could read it here!

Like I said. You have the freedom to choose how much you buy into this flash nonsense.

If El Reg is taking 40 seconds to load it's only because you allow it to.

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WTF?

40 secs!

40 secs, what else is running, it took less than 3 secs on my (single core) intel 2.13GHz 1Gb Dell inspiron which is around 7 years old. I'm also connected to a remote network via citrix, listening to music via SPotify and also doing a complete rebuild/unit test of a huge software base, so both my internet connection and machine is busy.

[troll]Of course I am running on linux[/troll]

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Stop

Grannies?

I don't know how many will actually want an iPad, but I would imagine there would be a few who, if given such a thing, would ask why it doesn't display the web pages that they can view perfectly well on their PC (be it a box with Windows installed on it or whatever) properly, because of Apple's edict to ban flash.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to "cream my pants when I think of Bill Gates" (ew), and really I couldn't give a crap either way about Apple. I've never found the need to spend my money on any of their devices, but many have.

I just think your straw man argument about grannies and your ad-hominem attack on users of anything that isn't Apple are rather puerile, and, quite frankly, I have heard them before a number of times. The amount of bile you seem to be spouting at anyone who doesn't appear to like Apple as much as you is in truth rather sad. At the end of the day, they're only consumer devices and if they are that important to you, I'd suggest that maybe you are missing out on other, more important, aspects of a full and well-rounded social life.

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FAIL

@BillG

Which is why I have AdBlock and NoScript installed on FF. I suspect the flash adverts I'm not seeing are being blocked by the first, since there is no grey place holder there that I would otherwise have to click on to see the flash content.

You see, I have the choice about whether or not I can see this, because for all of Windows' failings, it does at least allow me a fairly decent amount of control over my own property (or in this case, my employer's property).

And FYI, I am using an XP box with a dual core P4 2.8 Ghz and a measly gigabyte of RAM. I just timed how long it took to open FF3.6.3 to open up and load the Reg's home page and it was a smidge under five seconds, most of which was taken up by loading the app from disk, by the sounds of it. If, as you say, the page styalled loading because of the Flash content, I would suggest that it is the CONTENT that slowed you down - perhaps something to do with having to download the video content of an advert over your internet connection. Would this be any quicker with HTML4? I doubt it.

But then you 'completely agree with WilliamLondon' so would appear to be living in a parallel universe where logic was dropped on its head as a child.

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B 9

Your reply is dishonest at best

"The amount of bile you seem to be spouting at anyone who doesn't appear to like Apple as much as you"

No, sorry, but that is not what he said. You don't have to like Apple, but his beef (and mine) is with blind haters of Apple, and the Reg does appear to be full of them. Many of them who rant on Apple also appear to have swallowed the anti-Apple koolaid and their arguments are lame at best, and downright dishonest at other times. Your reply is a perfect example. You mis-characterized his plainly clear argument and then tried to use that to take the moral high ground. Perhaps being honest and accurate should be your first steps and then you can help take the speck out of your brother's eye?

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B 9

An American corporation? Really?

Maybe we should put BP in charge of it and see how well they do? Let's not get started on making fun of American corporations when it's not a uniquely American phenomena.

As for "you should be at liberty to blah blah blah". While I understand that you may want that freedom to do that, Apple has an interest in making sure that nothing ruins the customer experience by causing battery drain, crashing, system slowdown, etc. If they allow a known POS app on their device they run the risk of getting a black eye in public perception of their products. They made a perfectly good decision, even admitted by the person who wrote this article, it's just that it pissed off a VERY small minority of tech geeks who probably actually care less about freedom, and more about bashing Apple. Let's be honest, those same tech geeks didn't like Apple before this because they didn't understand why Apple products engendered so much love from their users (hence their use of the denigrating, innacurate term "fanbois").

You may not like Apple's decision, but it IS a decision made with the end user's experience in mind. You don't think Apple didn't realize they'd take a lot of heat for this stand, do you? And you're really not foolish enough to think that Apple wants to "control" you, do you? What possible benefit would they have in "controlling" you? Their is absolutely no motive to do this except to protect their product's reputation considering the possible negative PR fallout from taking this stand, so they might actually be taking a principled stand rather than this BS line about control that everyone is tossing about.

I'm not a blind Apple supporter and think they can do no wrong. There's several things I'd change about Apple, but their decision to not allow Flash was not wrong. They have good solid reasons and they are sticking to their guns. This is not new territory for Apple, they are still the renegade that makes unique decisions that unemployed internet pundits don't always agree with.

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Anonymous Coward

Reels ? Really ?

Although I mostly agree with this article, I fail to see what developers would do about His Jobness' personal vendettas. They'll cry foul, and whine about it, but they'll continue to develop. The whole iPhone success was due to the app store. There's how many iMobileDevices sold now ? Something in the 60 million range ? Most of those folks have bought apps, which means they have invested in their device(s). Do you honestly think they'll switch to WinMo 7 or Android if that means that they'll have to buy the apps they use all over again on the other markets ?

Besides that, most of those buyers are, I presume, "just" consumers. They want a device that works, that they can show off with, and Apple has given it to them. Most people (again, presumption) really don't care whether or not Apple supports Flash, or if i(Phone)OS is "open" enough.

Jobsie did make a big mistake using the HTML5 moniker to declare his so-called openness, but again: people don't care. And neither do the regular media. You won't see this stuff on the first page of The Sun, or even the third page (fortunately).

Face it: developers will have to swallow Apple's politics if they want to get their product sold.

For the record: I've used pretty much all of them (Nokia, Android, WinMo 6.5 and iPhone) over the last few years, and right now I'm still using an iPhone. I don't like everything about it, but in general I prefer it to the others. I was thinking about getting a Nexus One, but multitasking and flash (ha ha) are not really important to me. After all, it's still mainly a frickin' phone.

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Jobs Halo

'fess up

If it was a phone you were after, you wouldn't use an iPhone, because as a mobile telephone, it's one of the worst on the market. The sound quality is poor, its antenna is poor and it randomly drops calls.

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Stop

RE: 'fess up

"If it was a phone you were after, you wouldn't use an iPhone, because as a mobile telephone, it's one of the worst on the market. The sound quality is poor, its antenna is poor and it randomly drops calls."

Mine has great sound quality compared to the Motorola I had previously, it's never dropped any calls either. Maybe the antenna isn't as poor as you think?

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Troll

@Daren

Odd, haven't had those issues (except for one point with lousy coverage, had the same issue with all phones there). Reception does get worse after reading some articles on good ol' El Reg, but that's mostly after I I don my tinfoil hat :-)

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Hypocrisy

>> "For decades, Apple produced advances that such people couldn't — religion aside — really argue with: the reliability and ease of the Mac, the convenience of the iPod and iTunes, and the breakthrough of touch on the iPhone. People overlooked the closed nature of these systems, or at least forgave them[...]"

Except that this is not actually true. For the past decade, the tech press has been criticizing Apple for everything they do. Even The Register announced boldly and proudly that the iPod and the iPhone would be utter flops because they were nothing like what the competition had in offer.

And before this decade, the tech press were even busier announcing with great conviction the imminent death of the company.

So tell me, Mr. Clarke, why is it different now when you use phrases like "is risking his credibility", "will also backfire on Apple", and "will lose supporters" for the same purpose?

The Internet may be a very large place, but apparently the echo of a just a small few is enough to resonate loudly. While this supposed "war" is taking place, Apple products are selling at a fast rate, and developers are joining the ranks at an unprecedented pace--in spite of those dreaded policies.

You know who doesn't really care about all this? The end users, who seem to be happy forking off the bucks.

-dZ.

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Thumb Up

Jobs is an a$$hole

After 16 years of being mac-only I finally got fed up with Jobs, Apple and their most vocal and delusional fanbois and made the switch to Windows 7. I'm now using Adobe CS5 products (Master Collection) on the Windows and couldn't be happier. I wouldn't mind, and actually have wished that Adobe would make their products pc-only. The absolutely best thing would be them switching all the mac development to linux development though ;) I'd be more than happy to use linux full time.

The only way I'd get back to mac would be if Jobs was out from Apple and the religous cult-thing Apple have successfully used for years was used no more, although that being their main base of success that's not going to happen. Jobs is certainly getting old, and probably we'll be seeing lot more of his incoherent ramblings in the near future, which will be entertaining. But before he's out of the picture in one way or another I'd like to see him see Apple failing badly. According to rumours (biographies, stories from Apple employees) he's always been an insufferable wanker and I'd like nothing more than for him to get a good kick in the ass. Yeah, I really don't have respect for him. I've seen him spread the lies for past 16 years and getting away with it with billions of cash in the pockets.

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Silver badge
WTF?

@Kode. Well...

I'm using CS5 on a new Mac Pro, and I'm happy. I couldn't really care if Adobe ports CS5 to the Commodore PET, Sinclair Spectrum or re-writes it for the Z80 or anything else.

As long as I've got what I'm happy with, I don't care where else they market/apply it..

And yes, I've been a techie for over 35 years now (and 22 years of being Mac only) , so I've seen at least as much change as you - probably more - and no, I'm not overly happy with the Apple-Adobe war that's broken out, nor do I agree with Mr Jobs' diatribe against Adobe/Flash.

However, I still think Leopard>Win7, and Mac>Dell (or anything else), so that's the way I go.

Running off with invective against Apple and issuing pointless statements like "...and actually have wished that Adobe would make their products pc-only. .." give you all the appearance of a sour-grapes, petulant child or a rejected lover, which I'm sure isn't true.

You also claim "...I've seen him spread the lies for past 16 years..."

Is this just child-like invective, or can you supply definitive unequivocal examples, please?

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Techie <cough>bollocks<cough>

Point 1

you are by your own admision a fanboi, therefore de facto a NON techie. You are a consumer.

Point 2 _any_ genuine techie with 35 years experience would know full well that the speccy infact did use a Z80 chip. So if cs5 was ported to the spectrum it would not then need to be re written in Z80 code as that would have been a_fairly_important part of porting it to the speccy in the first place.

hint - if you want to look like a techie - wiki things first. wiki may be lagley bollocks, but it's a damn sight more clued up than you (see points one and two)

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usual arrogant crap from a know-it-all (who doesn't)..

I was a techie with Burroughs Machines in the early eighties - pre Unisys days - and linked Burroughs (i.e. re-badged Convergent Technologies) micros with Burroughs minis & IBM minis etc.

Funnily enough, we found very few Spectrums used commercially, so I confess a) I never used one and b) I don't know what they were built from, and c) I did not care the, and care even less now. So the guy who fixes our car (and does it very well) isn't a REAL mechanic if he doesn't know the jet needle for a 1937 Morris?

You say "..you are by your own admision a fanboi, therefore de facto a NON techie..."

Pure sophistry - or, if you're unsure what sophistry is, let me rephrase it in the vernacular.

Pure bollocks.

Anyway, in your rush to prove your uber-knowledge (sad, really) of archaic toys, you completely lost the meaning of my post which was to say that I really don't give a damn if Adobe port CS5 to any OS with more than 2 surviving machines, so Kodes desire to stop Adobe producing Mac software was little more than childish petulance

I think your egotistical implication that you are clued up is little more than wishful thinking.

Perhaps you could get out more. English comprehension classes, possibly?

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Anonymous Coward

If anything...

...Jobs' verbal destruction of Flash makes me want to use more Macs and Apple devices.

I really don't miss Flash ads on my iPhone, and who wants instability just so they can play a pointless Flash game?

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Anonymous Coward

Jobs is a pompous twat.

And I'm so bored with these stories about his every fart.

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Anonymous Coward

Apple is almost irrelevant in the fight for multimedia-standards

Content will decide. Adobe, Apple and MS won't have the power to change anything if Google gets it right with WebM and their supposedly royalty-free codecs, unless they're prepared for a dirty fight in the courtrooms shoulder to shoulder with MPEG LA. The future for truly open multimedia content looks brighter than it has done in a long time.

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Jobs Horns

I have recently given up on Apple

My MBP is a Uniboot Ubuntu machine, and I will not be advocating, nor spending any more money on apple crap for the foreseeable future. I have historically spent more than all the cars I have owned on Apple products - so I am not a hater as such.

The ego running that business has, exactly as the article summarised, alienate me.

Can you imagine how far flash would have spread if you had to ask Adobe before you made a stupid game, or a flash intro to your house? It is unthinkable. Adobe have been an enabler, and now they are carving new possibilities in the current market. To allow flash to be recompiled for the iPhone was good business sense for Adobe, and really it is Apple's loss.

The other massively arrogant move that upset me recently their recent litigiousness. I detested Nokia for their massive patent back catalogue, but now I respect them for being restrained in it's use. It is largely, these days, a way for companies to prevent themselves from litigation. Normally small companies get the benefit of the doubt, and big companies realistically understand that progress is for the masses, and competition comes from doing things well.

Apple on the other hand has the business methodology - if someone innovates, buy them out and patent the floor tiles of the place. If they refuse to sell, poo-poo their technology or better yet, use it as inspiration. I am thinking of Swype.. but I think they mostly make the purchase and people bow/fall in line.

Apple IS Steve Jobs, and Steve Jobs is the most arrogant Buddhist in the known universe. I am incredibly suspicious of him, and I worry about Apple's future. And all our future's if Apple ever dominate in the scale Microsoft had.

Some blonde athlete, please throw a sledgehammer at the next keynote.

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Spot on.

Well you've nailed that. Well done.

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Anonymous Coward

Alternatively

SJ is actually endeavouring to become a little more human in his later years and drop the enigmatic deity approach to running his company. Personally, I prefer the latter even though it obviously shatters all of your illusions of the image you think he's tried so hard to build.

And, truthfully, the bottom line is that Apple's products either work with his current business model or they don't. They've back out of decisions before, and they'll do it again if they have to.

The point, really, is that right now they don't have to. Continue to enjoy the smell of your own farts, Reg, but SJ is doing largely what anybody else would in his position. Just don't make the mistake of assuming he won't back down when he absolutely HAS to. The fun, the amusement I reckon, is watching just how long he's willing to hold out before he does.

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pot meet kettle

"Mischaracterizing technologies to prove a point is a fast track to losing credibility among coders and other experts in the biz"

Which, in this article, could be reworded as mischaracterizing argument to prove a point is a fast track to losing credibility among readers.

Jobs admitted in the mentioned interview that Adobe wasn't agressive about Flash not being on the iPhone. When the iPad was announced Apple reiterated the exact same flash story they've been telling since the iPhone appeared. They felt html5 was the way to go. Then, because of the extra press the iPad was getting Adobe laid out the first attack.

Your characterization makes it look like Jobs ignored the history and accused Adobe of being an agressor all along. If anything, it was the press that egged these guys into a fight but Adobe did make the first move... unless you want to go back and characterize Apple's original non-inclusion of flash as the beginning. But that's not what your article says.

The only remotely valid point in this article is that Apple should have followed their own policy on the analytics software immediately rather than later. But then again, where's the condemnation of the analytics companies who were knowingly violating the developer agreement in the first place.

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