back to article TwitPic-nicking Mail nicked

If you’re going to nick TwitPics, it pays to read the small print first. That could be a salutary lesson for the Daily Mail, currently facing a bill of almost ten times the going rate after lifting a professional photographer’s pics from the web and then attempting to claim that as they were "in the public domain", they didn’t …

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FAIL

The Daily Heil - bastion of law and order

not

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Joke

HAHAHA

Personally I blame situations like this on Asylum seekers, illegal immigrants, chavs, Nu Labour, the EU, the internet, Sony Playstation and "polictical correctness gone mad!"

If it wasn't for all those things the Daily Fail would of had ever right to use those images for free.

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best of luck to her

take the Daily (insert clever 'ail pun here) down a peg or two.

Thievin swine.

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Daily Fail ...

... Come on ... You can't come to expect the Daily Mail to have researched properly do you?

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Oh dear, DM...

And we thought Mil Millington's "Things My Girlfriend and I Have Argued About" taught the newspaper world a lesson about ripping off online content.

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Daily Fail Strikes Again

That is all

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Coat

Hummm....

That'll be the meaning of the phrase "The Daily Fail"...

Heh. I'm sure I won't be the first person to make /that/ joke. Thank you, and good day (or night, such as it may be).

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I always thought...

...it was the Daily Wail.

Edited either by Chicken Licken or the proverbial sandwich board man proclaiming "The End of the World is Nigh!" (particularly if you're in their definition of "middle class" - i.e. earning >£40k)

Then again, from recent news stands, it seems as though their arch rival (Express [1]) seems to be getting in on the act as well - they already appear to have started their version of the oncological ontology project...

[1] Are there any satirical takes on that paper's name?

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Re: I always thought

Usually referred to as the Daily Excess - could be stretched to Daily Abcess I suppose.

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I always call it...

...the Diana Excess (about every other day there's some crap about Di in it).

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Flame

According to Lord Gnome...

It was always referred to in Private Eye as the 'Sexpress'.

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no title

daily depress

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They got previous, innit?

You'd think the Mail might have learned their lesson after their interweb plagiarism escapades of 2001, involving El Reg and the venerable Mr Mil Millington (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/03/02/daily_mail_apologies_for_nicking/).

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Unhappy

Arrogance

The sheer arrogance of claiming that the photos were in the public domain is.. well what you would expect.

Surely a paper of the calibre of the Mail would know that /everything/ is copyright unless explicitly described, via a Creative Commons licence for example.

Oh, right.

Mind you, most of the red tops have always been like this. A company I once worked with used to have to have editions from all over the country posted to them by newsagents (at a huge cost...) to make sure they were paying for all the photographs published as the contribution accounts department usually only saw those in the London edition. Bill board posters were another common "oops... forgot we had to pay..." - usually they only managed to get paid for them if one of their photographers was about and actually /saw/ it.

But best of luck, and I can't see how the Mail can back out of this one. A tough lesson learnt, until the next time.

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Headmaster

Creative Commons is also not Public Domain

correction: anything under Creative Commons is copywritten also. it has to be put into the public domain to be in the public domain. the Creative Commons Foundatation may have some language that does this, it's not under creative commons per se, because if it is put into the public domain you are not licensing it. (except in countries like Japan which do not recognise the public domain, which may require an alternitive license stating you intened to permit all users to use it for any legal useage, without attribution (I think that would get around all moral rights, but am by no means an expert in japanese law))

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Grenade

At last

Something good comes out of Twitter.

Personally, I think they should fine the Daily Fail per issue sold. That will teach them that stealing other peoples content is wrong.

I wonder what their future stance on hunting down Freetards will be like.... :-)

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Happy

online

think the story said something about the online publication so do it on page views instead? F5 at the ready!

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Coming over here

stealing our photographs. It's PC gone mad. Unless they used a Mac.

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Another satyrical take?

Essex girl version - Doily Mile

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Alert

Paying for photographs gives you cancer.

DailymailFACT.

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not that we expect better from the daily fail

but the sheer arrogance of replying that they weren't going to pay for the pictures is staggering!

I hope she takes the little bastards to court and f**ks them for every penny she can get!

btw, what's the el reg / daily mail thing going on at the moment?

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The Mail should sue her

Just as AP did when they nicked Daniel Morel's photos from TwitPic and he complained.

http://www.dankennedy.net/tag/daniel-morel/

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Pick the bones out of that, cuntbubbles

The Daily Fail steal copy and pictures as a matter of course, as well as being hateful rabble-rousing mean-spirit, racist, homophobic and xenophobic hate mongers. It would be a waste of good urine to help with with flames.

Translation, this pleases me.

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Stunned

I can't fathom how a major newspaper doesn't understand the basic principles of copyright.

No excuse for it.

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I can see it now...

"Scandal as British people are made to pay MORE for photographs"

"... an investigation by the Daily Mail discovered that corrupt online photographers are charging MORE than the recommended rate for photographic licences ..."

I can imagine the comments section on that one. It'll all be Labour's fault as well as the immigrants, no doubt.

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IT Angle

you missed a bit

Your suggested text is incomplete for a story in the Daily Heil.

There's no mention of the impact of these licences will have on house prices. Or how they increase/decrease the risk of cancer. Or that it's all the fault of welfare scrounging asylum seekers and/or single mothers.

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Grenade

As any corporate lawyer says...

its all the T's & C's

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FAIL

Stolen images are the least of their problems...

The Daily Mail has been awful to read for quite a while now, poor grammar, bad spelling, missing paragraphs or repeating paragraphs, photos with 'Write Caption here' left on them. It is lazy journalism, and if you ask me, it is because they are just employing a load of bloody foreigners, with poor English skills, to write for them because they are cheap.

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Strange.

I assumed if anyone were, they'd be the copyright nazis. quite literally...

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Not unusual

The Mail on Sunday pinched one of my photos off the (clearly copyrighted) Web site of a musician of my acquaintance in order to illustrate a scandal piece they printed on page 3. The quality wasn't great as it was a cut and past job from a website.

I never did get round to sending them a bill. To add insult to injury they didn't provide a credit (but I bet they paid for the agency photo they also used).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1076641/Newsnights-Gavin-Esler-splits-wife-moves-raunchy-violinist-lover.html

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Anonymous Coward

Bill them now then?

They're still infringing. Send them a bill and see if they'll pay up.

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WTF?

Bill them!

For God's sake, send them an invoice! They'll keep on treating the web as a free content goldmine if you let them get away with it! Not only that but why shouldn't you get paid? If you walked in to their offices and took a monitor they'd suddenly know all about the law I reckon.

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Small Claims Court

Expert opinions please - can El Reg and this unlucky photographer use this route and even, crosses fingers, send the Bailiffs round when the DM, hopefully, inevitably ignore the summons?

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WTF?

Sir

So, by their logic, anything they put on their online website is public domain, therefore anyone can use it free of charge?

Sweet.

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Daily Mail having a bad month

First the World Cup 2018 scandal then Gary Lineker resigns from his column in disgust, now the stolen photographs... And this paper tells us about morals? helllllllo?

Good luck if she gets some money.

I doubt they'll pay up, but here's their chance to "put it right"...

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Re: Sir

I would nick content off the Daily Mail's site, if there was anything worth nicking.

I blame elf'n'safety laws myself (Such a hilarious pun! Gets me every time)

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Keep us updated...

Can you (or Emily) keep us updated on how this one plays out El Reg?

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Anonymous Coward

title

the daily mail are notorious for stealing images and even entire articles. here's another one from earlier in the year: http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2010/01/plagiarism-at-daily-mail.html

they are shameless xenophobic, morons and the very existence of the paper makes me ashamed to be human every day. I wish anyone sueing them the very best of luck.

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Pint

Circulation?

She shouldn't really worry! The Daily Wails circulation used to be so bad that to 'boost' the numbers you could get a free copy at any Little Chef! And now they don't bother stocking it as it was putting off their customers!

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Joke

This photographer clearly mistaken

Copyright laws exist to protect the rights of huge companies from individuals, not the other way around.

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Anonymous Coward

Copyright is apparently a very difficult concept to grasp

I've had to deal with similar issues in the past. For me it's not about the money, but about the basic decency of asking if you're allowed to use my photos. And it appears that's already too much to ask.

http://floor-revamp.fr/

And apparently she's a bit miffed that I contacted her webhost in order to complain about copyright infringement. Who else should I have contacted? Her? She has already demonstrated to be completely clueless about the whole copyright thing. And besides, I've stopped being nice about this sort of thing. I certainly see no reason not to as I regularly deal with people who are capable of doing the right thing.

I for one wish Emily James the best with her lawsuit. Harsh actions sadly seem to be the only way to get it through people's thick skulls that because something's on the internet doesn't mean it's free or yours to (ab)use.

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Unhappy

and another one

My mate Clive has also fallen foul of the photo snaffling hacks of the Fail: http://cliveflint.wordpress.com/2010/05/25/daily-mail-uses-my-photo-without-permission/

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FAIL

wow!

To steal a photo is one thing. To HOTLINK a photo is even worse. In fact, they should have replaced said hotlinked photo with goatse or 2girls1cup etc. "That'll learn em"

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Keep Us Informed

I would love to see the outcome of this one (and the others mentioned in footnotes and comments).

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Happy

good luck to the photographer

looks like he's already making some headway there anyway.

I discovered someone using one of my images without permission, they wouldn't pay for it or remove it when asked. Turns out it was automated blagging, they hit a search term, scrape the top ten or so thumbnail images off Bing, wrap a bit of advertising around and hey presto! instant blagomatic web pages.

mashups for the light fingered ... technology is a great enabler

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The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

1. She should sue their asses off, like £40 for the use of the photo, £1000 for taking it without consent, and £198,960 for thinking they could get away with it. In my opinion, their later response has moved from simple licence misunderstanding/f*ckwitism to outright blatant copyright theft. (after all, how much in the course of a day of the Fail is a grand? if they coughed up and added an extra few hundred for the condition of silence, nobody would be any the wiser...) Maybe if there's a lawyer willing to do a nice profile pro bono they could look for everybody who has a grievance with the Fail as, well, come on. Copyright is copyright, theft is theft. We have this girl's picture and an El Reg reader... one more an the Fail loses its publication licence. Oh, what, it's good enough for *us* freetards but not good enough for corporate freetardery? Like I said, copyright is copyright and theft is theft.

2. She should accept the £40 offered, on the understanding that the Daily Mail is explicity saying if something is posted on-line, then it is in the public domain and can be used as and when for whatever purpose without bothering to provide credit or compensation. Like, say, the ENTIRE content of the Fail website (not that I'd want to copy any of it, I only go there to read Littlejohn for light entertainment value). As our sources of free info are a pictures site and the Fail's site, it would appear we could logically extrapolate this to apply to *all* on-line content. I wait with bated breath to see what a certain Mr. Murdoch will throw across his office... A phone? (been done) A chair? (been done)

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Boffin

Strike One

Two more and they're banned from using the internet.

That's the kind of police state I could get behind.

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Flame

Totally agree with the general vibe from the commentards here ...

... but my question is are these all the same commentards who also comment bitterly about not being able to thieve - I mean torrent - movies and music with impunity? If not, where are they ... surely they should be arguing how this should be fine fine fine?

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Happy

Most of this type (including me)

probably think that artists get a crap deal out of the recording industry, and would do better if the system properly revolved around gigs, and not on the selling of music or TV in rubbish ways. Put it this way, I'm a big Lost fan, even when it had its troubles. I got up to watch the final episode on Monday morning at 5am, adverts and all on Sky1, I'm going to probably download it to watch it in the interim (mostly because I don't have an HD TV) and I plan on buying the full boxset when it comes out. I don't think it's great to pirate stuff, and to be completely honest when I did pirate things willynilly it was when I was a student, didn't really think as much about consequences, and didn't have as much cash to spend on stuff. Now I'll generally buy stuff and only very occasionally pirate, mostly for TV shows that I've missed for whatever reason, or for difficult to find music.

The difference with photography is that there isn't another way to sell the content. It's not like being able to gig, or to show repeats, or to sell a DVD, your only real way to sell this sort of content is by selling it to newspapers. I think that the other big difference is that the Mail is profiting from theft. I don't, for instance, agree with pirated DVDs, selling something that isn't yours clearly is a lost sale because someone has bought something that could have been sold somewhere else. If I'm watching a TV show that I missed at the weekend, or listening to something I couldn't find anywhere else, I would equate it to watching a rerun when I've got time, or listening to the radio. I'd just like to highlight that I will buy things that I find enjoyable. For instance, a few years ago I downloaded Silent Hunter III and thoroughly enjoyed it, when it was available on Steam I bought it, not because of anything it allowed me to do, purely because I liked the game and wanted to credit the developers. Go figure..

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Modus operandi for the Daily Fail?

There was the saga with :

http://www.mil-millington.com/

...detailed here:

http://thingsmygirlfriendandihavearguedabout.com/mil_support/

So, they obviously have not changed their ways.

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