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back to article Feds seize $143m worth of bogus networking gear

Federal authorities over the past fives year have seized more than $143m worth of counterfeit Cisco hardware and labels in a coordinated operation that's netted more than 700 seizures and 30 felony convictions, the Justice Department said Thursday. Operation Network Raider is an enforcement initiative involving the FBI, …

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Anonymous Coward

Bogus?

As I understand it, Cisco gear is made in China. What makes this particular stuff "Bogus", is that Cisco didn't get their cut on it.

As for backdoors, it runs the same firmware as the ones that get the Cisco cut, and this can always be updated at any point.

Apart from the price, one big advantage of the "bogus" ones, is that you don't have to fill out reams and reams of paperwork just to install a router in a company in a country that isn't America. (And there's always the possibility that they will say no, export laws and all that.)

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Anonymous Coward

if counterfeits thats why it's bogus

Err counterfiet is stealing plain and simple. Maybe it's dvd's, what the harm, routers well cisco won't notice a few missing $s. That dodgy dvd player that was nicked off your dear old gran in a burgalary... well she wont mind.

just cos you're nicking stuff of a big corp you don't happen to like doesn't justify it.

what if they are countefeit brakes parts for your car? happy with that? or if joe blogs airlines decided to save a few quid and use knocked off parts to replair the planes....

Are the parts the exactly the same or from a dodgy batch using inferior components. who knows?

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@Err counterfiet is stealing plain and simple.

"Err counterfiet is stealing plain and simple...just cos you're nicking stuff of a big corp..."

You're implication that counterfit goods are stolen is not correct, they're simply fakes.

Granted, the counterfitters may be breaking trademark laws as well as well as misrepresenting their products to customers, but they didn't necessarily "nick" anything.

"what if they are countefeit brakes parts for your car? happy with that? or if joe blogs airlines decided to save a few quid and use knocked off parts to replair the planes....Are the parts the exactly the same or from a dodgy batch using inferior components. who knows?"

As long as they're not mislabeled or stolen, and the customer knows what he's getting, then there's nothing wrong with a market for third party products.

Consider:

Third party ink cartidges, generic drugs, computer equipment, no-name food products, car parts, etc...

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FAIL

counterfiet is "stealing" plain and simple.

"counterfiet is stealing plain and simple."

So again; please explain to me why a "stolen" piece of networking kit exactly the same as a non-stolen one, with exactly the same hardware, running exactly the same firmware has backdoors in that are really bad, but the non-stolen networking kit doesn't.

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Gold badge
FAIL

Have an icon.

"As long as they're not mislabeled or stolen, and the customer knows what he's getting, then there's nothing wrong with a market for third party products."

They wouldn't be bloody counterfeit in that case then, would they? The very point of counterfeit products is that they are *not* labelled correctly as third-party products. Your point was what exactly?

The aeroplane point from the OP is spot on. Quite a few people died not too long ago due to substandard fake Convair (IIRC) tail mounting bolts sold as genuine parts. The subsequent crackdown and audit on parts revealed something of a chamber of horrors in the overall US parts stock. All aircraft spares now have an auditable chain from manufacture to scrap as a result of this.

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@Have an icon.

"They wouldn't be bloody counterfeit in that case then, would they? The very point of counterfeit products is that they are *not* labelled correctly as third-party products."

You are correct, however you seem to have read this out of context.

I was merely countering the post which implied that counterfeit goods are stolen.

Maybe the poster simply misspoke, however the statement "Err counterfiet is stealing plain and simple." leads me to believe he genuinely did not understand what counterfeit means.

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Anonymous Coward

Genuine kit also manufactured in china

" ....since much of the counterfeit equipment originates in China..."

...and most of the genuine equipment originates in China as well. This may explain why some folk are taken in by counterfeit kit that is arriving from China. It may also explain how someone in China can manufacture counterfeit kit that actually works - maybe they have some connection to those that are making the genuine kit for Cisco.....

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@Genuine kit also manufactured in china

That's just it, who knows if Cisco is outsourcing to the same suppliers who are making the counterfeit versions.

I have brand name computer ram, which is identical to no-name ram right down to the part numbers. Both were obviously manufactured at the same place, only some of the parts were destined for brand name status.

As far as security goes, outsourcing our technology implicitly opens up numerous attack vectors.

While it goes against the current corporate culture, there's no security substitute for competent in-house development and staff.

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Coat

Minor text repair

... or, worse, riddled with backdoors that aren't ours.

There, fixed that for you.

I'll get me coat.

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who cares

and who do the feds work for, just corporate outsource-me america?

the feds should be limited to u.s.a produced equipment. not garbage outsourced or created in China.

Let chinas law enforcement *giggle* handle it.

Cisco is a complete laughing stock and others in the same field aren't much better. These companies do nothing but screw America but hey when their bottom line is threatened and they can't outsource anything else our resources come in handy.

Ciscos pricing could and always did justify union-priced labor for it's hardware. Any reduction in pricing of it was merely done to undercut whatever other competition may have threatened them prior to them just buying the competition.

Im not a pro-union guy but i'd shutdown my business before I would outsource. The people buying your merchandise should also be making it.

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are you serious

The part that catches my eye is that the US Department of Defense is buying truly "mission critical" equipment from a Saudi national.

I will be waiting for the article about the arrest of the Iraqi street vendor for selling bullets to the US military, Because the bullets were illegally stamped with the Winchester trademark

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FAIL

Different unreliability and backdoors?

"the scams could threaten national security by infusing critical networks with gear that's unreliable or, worse, riddled with backdoors."

Unreliable and backdoors ? Like Cisco gear normally do, you mean, or _different_ unreliability and backdoors? Is there any difference, really?

Like one previous commenter said: Not "our" backdoors, but "theirs" and frankly, seen from EU, I'd rather have Chinese backdoors than US.

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Silver badge

No you wouldn't

"Like one previous commenter said: Not "our" backdoors, but "theirs" and frankly, seen from EU, I'd rather have Chinese backdoors than US."

American screws you over. China shoots you in the head. I know which I'd prefer.

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FAIL

Evidence

"Cisco officials said they had no evidence that any of the counterfeit networking gear contained backdoors."

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Silver badge
Stop

Counterfiet is stealing plain and simple

Quite, there is no reason to look at it in any other way.

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Anonymous Coward

"Quite, there is no reason to look at it in any other way."

Has someone recently mentioned a scary and unfamiliar idea? You COULD use your brain in a vein attempt to understand it OR you could buy my "what to think" tapes for only $99.39

That's right, for only $99 my scientifically approved cassette tape will tell you exactly what to think AND you get a free luxury prestige toilet roll holder with it while stocks last.

Some of the many complex topics explained on my tape:

1. Counterfeit goods. Confusing right? WRONG. Just think of it as stealing.

2. Copyright infringement. Confusing right? WRONG. Just think of it as stealing.

3. Civil disobedience. Confusing right? WRONG. Just think of it as stealing.

4. Smoking weed. Confusing right? WRONG. Just think of it as stealing.

5. Didn't show up on time at the post office. Confusing right? WRONG. Just think of it as stealing.

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Megaphone

Bogus kit???

Sometimes the bogus kit is actually made in the same factories as the genuine stuff. What happens is that the customer orders the manufacturer to make 10000 units of a particular box, somewhere within the manufacturing process the number is raised to 10500, and these extra 500 are siphoned off out a back door, where they get fake labels and are sold at a cheaper price on the "black market" - so what you are really getting is a genuine box, its just the labels that are fake !!!

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WTF?

Ummmm....

" In 2008, he attempted to traffic 100 gigabit interface converters that were bought in China"...

100Gbit? If this is not a typo, which dumb ass actually bought this and considered it legit (in 2008)?

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Paris Hilton

hehehe

I think china / Asia are going to be 1st target on the new Airforce "Cyber" Squad the US miltary peptards are rolling out.

All hail the age of technology how it will damn this world (and the next)

Anyone for bladrunner?!... No..

Paris because: Well just because!

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Silver badge
Joke

All your base are belong to us

Chinese made gear is almost ubiquitous now.

Who know what Whu has planned?

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Just goes to show you

just how overpriced Cisco gear is. I'm not condoning the illegal actions of those selling counterfeit goods. They should be punished. All of that high end gear is way over priced.

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WTF?

What happened in China?

If this was the same factory churning these things out, didn't CISCO have an inhouse inspector to count the number of PC boards being stamped out? And does these factories still have a contract with CISCO?

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FAIL

Could not happen to a nicer IT company

Cisco has certainly helped the PRC complete the cultural revolution by providing equipment and expertise in building the great firewall of China. They saved billions by migrating most of their production to China while avoiding tariffs which resulted in huge bonus for Cisco executives.

How nice it is that the Chinese have also managed to help themselves to Cisco router IOS and engineering.

Any real secure operation can not trust Cisco.

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