back to article Adobe CTO paints Steve Jobs as Big Brother

Adobe chief technology officer Kevin Lynch believes that Apple barred translated Flash from the iPhone not because Flash runs poorly on the Jobsian handheld but because it runs so well. "We have already done a great job - technically - of getting Flash applications to run on the iPhone," Lynch said today during a question and …

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Heart

Beautifully put

"The difference, Lynch seemed to say, is that Big Brother has changed sides."

And that, Cade, sums it up perfectly.

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WTF?

WTF

Apple have always been on the side of stifling innovation. They did it back in the 80s when they hijacked xerox wimp interface and sued everyone for look and feel, they did it in the late 80s when they tried to stop people running mac emulators. How they ever got a fanboi following is a complete and utter mystery.

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Stop

No mystery

"How they ever got a fanboi following is a complete and utter mystery."

Err, perhaps it's because they make excellent products that work extremely well. No mystery at all.

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Anonymous Coward

The two

are mutually exclusive. Like trying to look 'cool'.

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Coat

Title

Yep, just like the new Core i7 iMacs....oh you had to send yours back due to not booting/cracking? So sad.

Your iPhone gets spotty 3G or WiFi service, even next to a cell tower/router? *comfort*

You can't go to the movies with friends because you had to take out a small personal loan just to by your Mac Pro (without a monitor even)? I feel for you.

Can't watch YouTube or news video on your iPhone? Oh yeah, Apple banned Flash. That's your fault for buying it.

Yep. Apple makes excellent products that work extremely well.

Perhaps more of the Mactastic crowd should take to their neighbor's 10yr old. They could probably cobble together a better PC solution nowadays. Sure, you'll have to run Win7, but honestly, is it really that bad? No more having to explain to grandpa that he can't "borrow" his neighbor's copy <insert some app that he absolutely has to have (MS Office for instance)>.

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FAIL

Point of order, Mr Speaker

"Can't watch YouTube or news video on your iPhone?"

YouTube works fine on the iPhone, it even has it's own app.

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Stop

RE: WTF

"they did it in the late 80s when they tried to stop people running mac emulators"

It was in the T&C of their operating system that you could only run it on their hardware long before any emulators came out...

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FAIL

@Ammaross Danan

Nice to see you stay on-topic, since this was all about Flash.

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FAIL

"Quality Adobe software"

As referenced at http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1657

"This is the first strip drawn entirely in Adobe Photoshop CS 5! It crashed five times in the process of drawing this comic! GOOD JOB ADOBE"

I hope Steve beats the crap out of Adobe, even though I'd never buy a Mac or iAnything.

Right now I have to do silly magic shit like "export GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS=TRUE" to get the mouse to work in Flash. WTF?

Hit 'em with the lead pipe again, please.

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Birds of a feather...

So you think that Steve Jobs should be able to dictate how the world should be just because a piece of software has quirks and you have to do a little bit more, actually learn and remember stuff, AND DO YOUR JOB?? What an idiot. Almost as big an idiot as Jobs himself.

Adobe might produce crappy software but at least they don't tell you how you can and can't use it or where you can run it.

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ark

think twice

If Adobe is beaten , you will have to 'buy a Mac or iAnything' to develop for the iphone!

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FAIL

will the real freedom please stand up?

"at least they don't tell you how you can and can't use it or where you can run it"

hahahaha of course Adobe does!!!

This is not about freedom. This war is about money. Remember Flash is proprietary. So you pay s**t loads of money to Adobe to make it work on your mobile platform. Apple refuses to pay that license for flash.

End of story.

It makes me sick that Adobe is taking the freedom stance here. If you build an app based on Flash, you are choosing a proprietary platform to build on! So you have absolutely no right at all to complain that some people might not be able to view it. If you want everybody to view your website, use an open standard!

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Gold badge

Rubbish

Even if you can use an Adobe tool to translate, you will still need Apple's toolchain to compile, package and test it.

All Adobe's tool does is convert flash to iPhone SDK code. You still have to compile it!

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Silver badge
FAIL

I hate to point out the bleedin obvious

but it's cheaper to buy a Mac than Adobe CS5. You might have religious objections to buying anthing Apple, but why should a developer writing code for the iPhone care if it's cheaper than Adobe's offering?

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@AC Birds of a feather

What lovely hyperbole which renders your argument moot.

Do I think Steve should be able to dictate user experience on his products when that's their mantra as a company? Absolutely - it's why I buy them and though I don't agree with all his moves (e.g. not allowing other video codec on it and other products) I do believe his products are the best at user experience on the market today. If someone gets eliminted in the pursuit of that, so what? I'm happy with my lovely product and I don't give a toss that Adobe loses out. Boo hoo hoo.

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Stop

RE: Rubbish

Oh really? What gave you that idea?

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Anonymous Coward

"You should be able to control it using your choice of smartphone."

What? Why can't you? All it takes is someone to write the code. I really don't get his point.

http://doitdifferent.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/n900copter/

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Thumb Up

Hear, Hear!!

It seems that that is up to the application developer no matter what can or cannot run on iPhone.

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Anonymous Coward

His point is...

that if it were written in Flash it *should* be cross platform, so write once/run anywhere. As it was written for the iPhone it would need to be re-written to run on a different phone. Hence the developer probably wouldn't bother.

I say *should* be cross platform because, in practice, I've never seen anything that's WO/RA work properly *everywhere*.

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Of Course

We are all desperate for an app to control dirigibles via our mobile phones.

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Thumb Up

Saw this...

...on the Intarwebtubes somewhere: "Saying that Java is nice because it can be run on any platform is like saying anal sex is nice because it can be used with any sex." I heartily agree - WO/RA is so much hot air. Out the orifice of your preference.

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Bronze badge

DRM Issue?

Is this the same remote helicopter? (I'm behind a proxy which is blocking the link in the article). Is the comms between the software and drone propriety, if so a third party be could open for legal attacks by violating IP/DRM?

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FAIL

RE: His point is...

"that if it were written in Flash it *should* be cross platform, so write once/run anywhere. As it was written for the iPhone it would need to be re-written to run on a different phone. Hence the developer probably wouldn't bother."

Can Flash control external devices - ie. radio transmitters?

I think not!

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Coat

Cue the fanbois...

...and pass the popcorn.

I've long since lost most of the respect I once had for both Adobe and Apple -- which makes it all the more amusing to sit back and watch the handbag fight!

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Joke

Well put!!!

i couldnt have said it better myself.

mind passing that popcorn? Ill hand you a beer :)

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Silver badge
Flame

Damn straight

They both get on my tits, Apple for being so closed and "you can only use the software we authorise" which severely limits innovation, and don't get me started on Quicktime for Windows - piece of shit kludgy software with non-standard Windows interface, it's like they're trying to bring a piece of Apple to PCs, and it's rotten.

As for Adobe, Flash just sits there doing feck-all on webpages chewing up CPU like there's no tomorrow, embedded video from sites such as YouTube & Vimeo etc. are the number one cause of my browser going sluggish, I say roll-on the embedded video solutions that don't use Flash.

And as for their PDF reader - slow, awful piece of shit, had to install FoxIt on my mother's PC because she got sent an A3 PDF and Adobe's pathetic offering wouldn't scale it down to A4 when printing.

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Just read elsewhere...

Opera and MS have waded into the fight too, more or less on Apple's side.

This could get messy.

Gotta say, though, as a former developer; while I appreciate the speed you can deploy multi-platform apps with on something like Flash, it's no substitute whatsoever for writing native apps for each platform from the user's perspective. Once you know each platform you can taylor the app to a much better experience for the user that fits more with the OS than the deveopment tools.

Mind you, it's just as easy to go completely wrong too. Mac apps on Windows that try to still be Mac apps (iTunes for example) are terrible. Windows apps on Mac that try to still be Windows apps (e.g. MS Office). Cross platform apps that try lowest common denomonator (e.g. OpenOffice). They all work after a fashion, or even very well, but often fail to take advantage of the platform's strengths and usually ignore the UI and style guides completely.

Sure, it's a major pain and not terribly cost-effecttive, but who are we developing for?

I'm shocked at the number of Adobe/Flash fanbois crawing out of the woodwork, TBH.

Bet this post gets voted down by them.

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Coffee/keyboard

Err, what?

"We have already done a great job - technically - of getting Flash applications to run on the iPhone,"

If they run anything like Flash on an OSX desktop, then I hereby stand up and call bullshit.

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@Random_Walk

Evidently, though I've not seen any of them myself nor any reference to a specific product, there are 100s of Flash apps on the App Store. Evidently, anyway.

Someone must have taken a look (critical and technical) at these at some point? The obvious would be Adobe - does anyone know if they have??

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Big Brother

Apple Cult vs. Obama cult

Has anyone else noticed the parallels between the very Left-leaning Cult of Steve Jobs and The Cult of Obama?

In both cases, the acolytes are unable to see the flaws in their Leaders even as they are painfully obvious to everyone else.

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17

You could be wrong.

Perhaps the acolytes can see Jobs's flaws - but still prefer his products over the competition.

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Pardon me while I roll my eyes

Has anyone else noticed that some people can't help but make a left-vs-right issue out of absolutely anything no matter how little relevance it actually has?

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Anonymous Coward

cults

This is rather true of any cult. Most would say the same about the Cult of Sarah Palin for example. Its usually best to take the ravings of any vocal group with a good heaping of salt.

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Rob
Unhappy

Correction

Due to the way todays society is, I'd say heaping now needs to be a mountain.

I'm still surprised humans are surviving what with the amount of bullshit we as a species seem to be dishing out nowadays.

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Pint

It gets worse...

...d'ya mean left vs. right as the US sees it, or as the UK sees it, or as maybe AUS sees it?

I'm guessing by the word "Obama" he means the US... a definition which means bupkis, approximately everywhere else.

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Flame

Balls to Adobe

Used to use their products all the time, now the only one I rely on is Fireworks and in the last 12 months that has crashed more times on my Mac than any other application I own. Don't even get me started on updates and the frigging cost of their web tools compared to how much they used to cost when they were owned by Macromedia.

So for my personal needs I've replaced Dreamweaver with Coda, Photoshop with Pixelmator, don't use Flash anymore and I'm now just waiting for a replacement for Fireworks and Adobe are history. I've had enough of their overpriced, poorly supported, bloated, nagware - I'm with Jobs - fuck Adobe.

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Anonymous Coward

Adobe is its own worst enemy

They ignored Apple for a decade, shovelling out late, second-rate, slow versions of their software (where they released them at all) with nightmarish licensing. Flash has been awful for as long as I can remember, and even Acrobat Reader has been unbearably slow and unstable. It hasn't been that good on Windows either, being both slow and a constant source of security problems. In short, all the hallmarks of a company that hasn't had any real competition in a long time. So when, for example, it's pointed out that Safari crashes frequently with Flash installed (yet runs smoothly with Flash removed) how do they respond? "It's all Apple's fault!"

Now they claim to have made it all sweetness and light on the iPhone, but I'd like to see some proof of that work elsewhere. After promising a mobile version of Flash for years, there doesn't seem to be a full implementation *anywhere* to perform tests with. All we have is this stream of hot air from a CTO who realises he's missed the boat. And once again, "it's all Apple's fault!"

And with respect to open Web standards, Adobe should put their money where their mouth is. Who is the railroad baron excluding other's from the tracks when it is only possible for Flash content to be produced and played through Adobe products? Make Flash entirely open source and then perhaps we won't laugh when you call for open standards. And take some responsibility for the problems you caused, e.g. stop outsourcing your development and support to the cheapest bidder!

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Anonymous Coward

flying mini-drone= mini suicide bomer

doesn't any one realize its danger in the hands of fanatics

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chipmonk

Lemme think back. Steve Jobs came to Tennessee and got a new liver. I suppose it was a donated liver. His business actions seem rather stingy for somebody whose life depends on that was given to him.

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Happy

HAHAHAHAHA!

"Adobe chief technology officer Kevin Lynch believes that Apple barred translated Flash from the iPhone not because Flash runs poorly on the Jobsian handheld but because it runs so well"

What a wonderful sense of humor! Flash is crap on Mac OSX - and drains the battery fast. It would fare no better the iPhone.

Smiley face - cause the adobe CTO is funny.

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Go

Wish you luck as we wave you goodbye.....

Bye bye Adobe! BYE! It wasn't actually that nice knowing you... BYE!

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Work in progress doesn't cut it anymore

Flash 10.1 isn't quite here yet. Isn't this the point? The popularity of the iPhone is that even a 2 year old can use it. The sloppy way windows system need updates,drivers etc to erm basically just work all the time, doesn't really cut it anymore. Adobe's new Flagship CS5 has some great bells and whistles but a lot of them are "under development"

Computers should be as reliable as ones washing machine, or dishwasher. You don't expect to have to turn it off and on a few times just to get ti to work.

I'm not pro or anit Apple I just like stuff that works..

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Flame

Not something you want to wish for...

I may not have to reboot the washing machine a few times, having said that, I've never been stuck with a huge repair bill because my PC pissed water all over my flat (and the flat below me).

Fire because, well, it'd help dry things out, at least.

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tedious

Nothing worse than 2 CEO's in a public willy-waving contest

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Anonymous Coward

worse

Having your testicles lashed with an electric flail is worse.

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Hands up who actually wants flash on their phone?

no?

thought so.

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@Matthew 17

Not me, not one bit. I'm completely against proprietary anything - what Flash can do should be included in the web standards. Flash can be fun in games I admit, but I'm willing to pay extra money or a custom iPhone/iPad app from the App Store if it'll keep Flash off my lovely device.

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FAIL

Yes please

So long as I can turn it on and off on demand.

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Anonymous Coward

To paraphrase...

I don't necessarily agree with the apps that Adobe writes or doesn't write ... but I will defend to the death their right to have their apps crash and burn on any platform of the customers choice.

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Gold badge

Adobe

Adobe are second only to Microsoft in churning out lazy minor evolutions of software and charging a fortune.

Who in their right mind pays £640 for a graphic tool? I bet 50% or more of Photoshop users are using a pirate copy.

I really hope Apple produce a rival to Photoshop at half or less of the price. I remember buying Logic Audio for about half RRP on Ebay thinking I had got a good deal. Then Apple released Logic Studio for less than what I had paid (approx £319) and they dropped the USB dongle, I upgraded for £129. This for a professional audio tool used by all manner of recording artists.

Contrast this with Cubase which was over £500 at the time. Now Cubase Studio 5 can be bought for £299!! So competition is good, it's about time Adobe had some competition so they can't charge their extortionate prices and release lazy bloat-ware.

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