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back to article Pirate Party UK launches manifesto

The Pirate Party UK is launching its manifesto tonight, under embargo: but since we don't believe in antiquated and oppressive IP laws - we're setting it free. Move over, Mondeo Man: the Pirates are firmly targeting the bloke in the garden shed, with his trousers around his ankles. The Party plans lots of new laws. Laws on "net …

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Ha ha!

Naughty Reg. Maybe they will sue you for copyright infringement?

No, wait...

Had to laugh at the trousers round the ankles, that sums most of them up quite accurately.

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WTF?

WTF?

"The Pirates will keep the National Identity Register"

A opposed to the Lib Dems and Tories who have said they will get rid of it.

With a no, no, no and no bottle of rum: no pirate vote for me.

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Agreed

I don't care if they only thing they keep on the NIR about me is my favourite colour. I DO NOT WANT TO BE ON IT.

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Big Brother

huh?

You mean apart from the hundreds of other databases you're on including this one?

Quick list of the 'official ones' that I expect 90% of the population have;

DVLA

NHS

NI

PAYE

passport

Electoral roll

Then the million commercial ones...

Any website you've registered on

TV licence

Any utilises (power, water, etc)

Banks

credit agencies

insurance

phone book

Just to name a few. Really they could just rename the NI card and it'd all be sorted over night.

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r

None of those are as expensive, invasive and down right nasty as the NIR...

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And I don't

HAVE to be on any of them... oh, and the NHS dosen't have one.

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Dead Vulture

El Reg is objective as always.

They actually said:

"We strongly oppose compulsory ID cards, and pledge that we will never introduce them. The proposed National Identity Register will be regulated so that it can only contain trivial information, and data required by a particular government department must be held by that department only. We will introduce a new right to compensation for people affected by government data loss."

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Happy

well

not a fecking working one

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Anonymous Coward

Whoooooooooosh

That was the point flying over your head.

The difference is that the National ID Register is the one ring that binds them together.

Independent databases are fine. They are regulated. There's no requirement on my side to keep them up to date. There is a requirement on their side to keep them up to date. Each keeps minimal, relevant data. For someone to seriously misuse any of the data requires them to get access to one and probably more organisations.

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Stop

More to the point...

...they are a single issue Party - no mention in their manifesto of schools, hospitals, roads, libraries, defence etc etc.

What they are is a bunch of selfish punks dressing up their own selfish demands with a little bit of respectability.

They don't stand for what they think is right - they are standing for what will benefit them the most in their own digital, stay at home and wank all day when not playing WoW lifestyles.

Granted, similar could be said about the other political parties, but cynicism and opinions about sleaze, corruption, cronyism, political expedience, self gain, proprty flipping and greed aside (cynical? moi?) the mainstream parties in general do stand for what they believe in.

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FAIL

Right

Since when does a politician saying equal politician doing? NIR has come to stay

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Paris Hilton

They don't represent me, then?

"They don't stand for what they think is right - they are standing for what will benefit them the most in their own digital, stay at home and wank all day when not playing WoW lifestyles."

'Cos I wank *whilst* playing WoW. I'm living the dream, so I am.

Paris, natch.

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Big Brother

One card to rule them all...

The NIR database will be used to tie all the other databases together (including your voting history, health records, banking history, travel history, comments on forums, facebook page, passport data).

That is why it is very different.

ID cards are well and good, but driving licences do the same thing - with that one very important exception that it doesn't tie all the bits of your life together into one ID card which can be used to track every aspect of your life all at once.

Oh, and all that can get put in one place and then sold or given away much more quickly and easily than if it were on a long list of different databases.

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FAIL

Sure about that ?

"There's no requirement on my side to keep them up to date. There is a requirement on their side to keep them up to date."

Just to pick one from the list above, if you don't update the DVLA they will repo your car. There are consequences to failing to report a change in circumstances for most state databases, and very *especially* HMRC.

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Anonymous Coward

So Garek is standing?

He'll be making somebody's day then!

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Spigott by Nature?

Got nothing against your right leg then?

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Silver badge

"... making somebody's day then!"

But does he feel lucky?

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Anonymous Coward

It's a lovely leg, I was told, some years ago.

I suspect it was down to my ambulatory predilictions. Quite like the way rationing in WWII led to a healthier nation, following the armistice in 1918 as I understand it as many as 2 in every 3 Western Europeans was a hopping unidexter and they were so much fitter than they are today, apart from the ones who got gassed, of course. I don't suppose it would have happened were it not for the chronic shortage of sticks, which were used to make everything from lances, to rifles and machine guns, shell cases, and wooden legs for the thousands of horses that served King and country in the trenches.

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Eh what?

"All that means Microsoft could take Linux, GNOME and GIMP and sell it as proprietary software - the GPL is unenforceable without the courts' recognition of copyright. But it's all for the best."

I thought the courts were going to recognise copyright in Pirate Cuckoo land, albeit only up to 10 years?

You confuse me.

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Simple, really.

All of these are over ten years old. Therefore any version from 10 years ago would be public domain.

new versions would have new code that would be under newer copyrights though. which actually puts MS in an interesting position. while they would lose the copyright on WinXP, any updates would still be copywritten... weird.

(this is probibly all lost on these fellows)

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Boffin

Makes sense to me.

Outdated software is useless, especially if we're talking about an OS.

The only difference this would make to how Microsoft does its business would be to make the initial OS purchase cheaper, and the service packs more expensive (i.e. not free, like with Apple).

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No it isn't

Outdated software still does what it did when you bought it. If it had a purpose when it was purchased then it can continue to fill that purpose.

It's software, not hardware, it doesn't change it's behaviour over time, it doesn't break down, it has no moving parts.

You use the geek icon unwisely.

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Boffin

No I don't.

Operating systems, drivers and hardware change, so software has to change to stay functional. New vulnerabilities and bugs get discovered every day, and it is unwise not to update.

Do we really have much use for software from the days of Win98? No. Would it be safe to browse the web using a version of XP from 2001? No. Will the hardware of my new PC work with Win98? No.

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Yes you do

You dont HAVE to upgrade your OS.

You don't HAVE to change your hardware.

You don't HAVE to connect to the internet.

Not all software becomes obsolete because you say so or because a period of time elapses.

Now get back to pre-ordering you iPad.

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Anonymous Coward

Actually..

You don't HAVE to, but most people DO IT anyway. It doesn't matter what you think people do, it matters what they do do.

Also, hardware deteriorates, and after 15 years max it gets changed -- software needs to change with it, because the software from the old machine either doesn't work on the new hardware, or the user doesn't know how to install it on the new system.

FYI, I do not want an iPad, nor do I own any Apple gadgets. Now, stop deleting the spam from your Hotmail account with your Zune.

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FAIL

Yes, yes you do.

"Operating systems"

Only change if I want then to,

"drivers"

Only need to change if I change my hardware.

"and hardware change[s]"

Only if I want it to.

"so software has to change to stay functional"

And that's a circular argument, you're saying software has to change because software has to change. Brain hurt much ?

"Do we really have much use for software from the days of Win98?"

Yes.

"Would it be safe to browse the web using a version of XP from 2001?"

Yes.

The one you're looking for is the big red one with "Fail" written it, here, let me show you.

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FAIL

Nawt.

Hardware gets old, hardware gets changed. With the hardware, the OS gets changed. With the OS, a lot of other software gets changed. It's a natural progression that can't be avoided, even by the most stubborn users.

Even businesses will eventually reach a point when the cost of maintaining old systems outweighs the cost of buying new ones.

"Do we really have much use for software from the days of Win98?"

No. I don't know a single person who still uses software that old on a daily basis. Maybe some companies still do, but they are beside the point.

"Would it be safe to browse the web using a version of XP from 2001?"

Yes? Try it. Do a random crawl using IE 6.0 without updates, using an unpatched copy of XP from 2001. Then, I dare you to do some internet banking.

The FAIL is all yours. Who in their right mind would argue that updates are unnecessary??

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FAIL

Fail train keeps on rolling

"With the OS, a lot of other software gets changed. It's a natural progression that can't be avoided, even by the most stubborn users."

IE6

"No. I don't know a single person who still uses software that old on a daily basis. Maybe some companies still do, but they are beside the point."

Huh ? You don't know about them so they don't matter ? Riiiiight.

"The FAIL is all yours. Who in their right mind would argue that updates are unnecessary??"

Maybe someone with an actual clue who has seen enterprises happily rubbing along on IT systems that are older than you ?

I see you found the correct icon to attach to your outpourings though.

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Ok

You have a very narrow view of software and hardware.

People are still using proprietary hardware running DOS and other OS's which don't have GUI's.

Hardware can be made to last a lot longer than you think, your world view seems to be very small, don't try to fit everything into it.

That is why you are using the geek icon incorrectly. I do not think you know what a legacy system is.

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Joke

True...

"All that means Microsoft could take Linux, GNOME and GIMP and sell it as proprietary software - the GPL is unenforceable without the courts' recognition of copyright."

True but, as many will point out, anyone will be able to do the same with windows XP, Office 2003, etc.. Is Vista 5 yet?

Why would anyone want to do that is beyond me, though.

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WTF?

What?

"...Microsoft could take Linux, GNOME and GIMP and sell it as proprietary software"

How could they sell that which is already dristributed freely?

That would be such a wasted effort, even if it worked in 1 country.

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Welcome

Tossers

The same way that anyone else can seel it read the terms of service dolt.

And we can all sell M$ stuff too . That will be ....errrmm..

"They missed a trick. In South West Surrey, Conservative culture frontbencher Jeremy Hunt is facing a challenge from Richard Mollett, the BPI's director of public affairs. That would have been the obvious place to fight a copyright election. It's nearer London, too."

Or maybe they know a trick or two too? Not telling anyone who is going to be standing there? Don't want a free for all do we?

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Anonymous Coward

No.

"And we can all sell M$ stuff too . That will be ....errrmm.."

That will be counterfeiting, which the Pirate Party says will still be illegal.

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@ Bill Neal

> How could they sell that which is already distributed freely

Sigh. Read up on GPL3 and why Stallman et al felt it was necessary. They don't sell an identical shrink wrap, they sell something that contains large chunks of the code, thus saving yourself shed loads of development time.

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Copyright Length

It's important to note that different Pirate Parties are endorsing different copyright lengths.

In the UK, it may be 10 years, and Sweden it may be 5 years, but in Australia, we think that 15 years is a safer option with respect to how well-received this kind of reformed will be, with respect to business.

15 years means that Windows 95 would be coming out of copyright, as opposed to Windows XP, which is still heavily used and marketable. If XP were coming out of copyright already, nobody would buy the newest version, because XP is good enough. That might please some, but it will only act to gain us a new enemy at a time when we need to be making friends. In 5 years, XP will still contain a lot from which society can benefit, but without alienating its makers.

We will never manage to achieve serious change if we open too many fronts at the same time in the war against oppressive copyright, and we still have so much to achieve with respect to civil liberties.

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Well it is more traditional

15 years is at least prety close to the 14 years that Copyright was origionally set at (actually 7 years with another 7 by applcation, IIRC).

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Anonymous Coward

But..

It was 14 years in the days of yore, when it would take weeks for a shipment of books (parchments? :P ) to go to the farther reaches of the British empire.

Now, that takes a few days using our crappy postal service. If you are using the internet, you can send stuff to Japan in a few seconds. Plus, the British empire got a lot smaller in recent years.

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Linux

XP without security patches

Gets itself compromised in minutes leaving you with a nest of viruses.

The security patches you need will still be within copyright even if copyright on them is reduced to 12 months.

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FAIL

XP without security patches ...

or being behind a firewall or NAT router. Curb your hysteria.

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good !

gets the good old thumbs up from me !

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FAIL

courts?

Haven't courts in several countries decided that the GPL holds water?

Admittedly (as yet) not in the UK - possibly because there aren't any developers big enough in the UK to attract the attentions of FSF lawyers (e.g.Cisco/Linksys opened 'their' source code after letters from learned friends).

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@Kwac

Kwac: the GPL only holds water because of copyright: the whole point is that its copyright that enables the creator, if they wish, to retain some control over what their work is used for. Without copyright the GPL is valueless.

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Rats on a sinking ship

Maybe El Reg should run candidates in the same consituencies? Candidates seem to be chosen for the Pirate Party according to how many times they have posted on their forum, and that that could be the same criteria for The Register candidates. Can't you just picture 'The Man From Mars' holding the balance of power in the next parliament?

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Interesting idea.

I'd love to see a breakdown of the top 100 commenters, by # of comments.

El Reg population statistics!

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FAIL

Hrm reply rejected.

By moderator - the most incredibly innocuous post. WTF? It was even mildly on topic!

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@Steen

There was an article about a woman who didn't want to be leered at. As always is the case, there was the predictable level of asshattery by various trolls. There were also posts by some dudes who have gotten the short of the gender stick, which always gets into some interesting debates and every single time gets deep under Sarah’s skin.

Sarah made the mistake of basically taking on all comers in that thread and ended up getting covered in what I can only imagine was a gigantic pile of really, really terrible comments.

I get the impression it left her in a Bad Mood. So don’t take offence to having an innocuous comment rejected, it’s likely just fallout.

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: @Steen

Why would you assume my bad mood is responsible for the rejection of an entirely unrelated comment? I reject comments for many reasons.

And I will always take on all comers. Usually win, too.

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@Sarah

Because you're human? A Bad Mood would be enough to push normal people towards rejecting a borderline comment that on other days you might let through. If you weren't subject to this, you'd either be a terrifying blasted wasteland of a human being whose soul has long since been drained by the power of the internet...or some terrifyingly saintly uber-objective individual that warps the fabric of the universe with your mere existence.

As to "taking on all comers and winning," well...that's subjective. You know I love my Moderatrix dearly Sarah, but there are some topics that all the internet arguments in the world have failed to change at least my viewpoint on. If you qualify winning as "convincing someone you are right," then you suffer losses like the rest of us. If you qualify winning as "remaining sane in the face of eleventeen squillion commenttards trying to devour your very soul," well...you took a job moderating comments for El Reg. How sane could you have been in the first place?

What do you use as a qualifier for "winning?"

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Dead Vulture

This article is pure FAIL.

Thanks for taking the time to link to the manifesto, Reg:

http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/blog/2010/mar/22/pirate-party-uk-launches-its-2010-election-manifes/

You know, in case you thought your readership is intelligent enough to read it on their own, and decide that relaxed copyrights and patents, freedom of speech and privacy are actually GOOD things.

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Has El Reg fallen into the BPI/RIAA trap

seize on one small peice of the argument that you don't like/agree with and damn the whole 'Ship' for it.

I would would vote for them purely because....they are at least trying to think for themselves.

All the other parties are just taking the money!

Lobbying in the old days that was call bribery.

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