There I was thinking it was the 40-year-olds who were demanding more money and shorter working hours.
These whippersnappers taking on 12-hour days for a quarter of my salary are starting to be a worry.
It's official. Proper actual science* has confirmed that the young Westerners of Generation Y (people now in their 20s) are idle, workshy loafers by comparison to their elders. They are also think that the world owes them a handsome living, having higher expectations of salary and status than their predecessors. "With more and …
There I was thinking it was the 40-year-olds who were demanding more money and shorter working hours.
These whippersnappers taking on 12-hour days for a quarter of my salary are starting to be a worry.
Look, all the survey shows is that the 'young whipper snappers' are smart enough to recognize that if they are going to pay you X for your work and force you to work 12 hour days, then they should get .75% of X because they know that its still at a discount to X.
To them, getting their degree means that they paid their 'dues' unlike us older folks who went through the cycle....
With the globalization of the workforce, the MBA mentality is that worker X == worker Y == worker Z.
We know that this is not the case and that quality suffers, but try telling that to an MBA wonk who's really an idiot who could bluff his way through school.
If you want to see the results, ask Toyota what caused their latest recall? Was it a software glitch? Wonder how that happened? ... ;-)
But hey! What do I know? I'm just an old school programmer who understands the effects a culture has on producing coders and their thought processes. ;-)
"stop hassling the kids and start picking on Western society's real problem group instead"
What you mean the work-shy politicians who want more money all the time for fuck all real work?
...and there I was thinking the real problem group are the out of control capitalists doing things like leading our banks to the brink of extinction, financing America's constant military activities (57 years now and counting!) and giving wodges of dosh to dictators so they can tap into cheap labout markets.
Admittedly, the politicians are just as bad!
If you put the two posts together you get something more specific: politicians who are capitalists, and sell out their country for corporate money.
Yeah becouse countries with Socialist policticans are so much better, wait wasn't France's youth unemployment around 25% darn... guess that's no good either.
...you don't get all the government you pay for.
Aren't there records of this sort of thing being common throughout the ages?
The Greeks moaned about it, the Roamans and no doubt there are cave pantings somewhere depicting lazy yoofs dragging a spear behind them with no real intention of trying to stab a mammoth but wanting to be first in the queue for the liver.
Another ground-breaking investigation that says that young people are normal for young people.
Agree ageist nepotism has been going on for generations.
I.e. All those various quotes.....the young are hearty liberals....the old are mad, if not conservative...etc.
The young do not start with an equitable share of the world’s resources and want to change the system, to demand their share more quickly.
Gradually, they become older and over time acquire a greater proportion of resource, they understandably support the system, as they wish to hold on to what they have.
These reports are just the spurious outbursts, of the propaganda war.
"The only thing I hate more than hippies, neo-liberals fascists and anarchists are the hypocrite fat-cat suits they eventually all grow up to be."
It used to be the case that generations moved on (mortally) with resources trickling down through the younger generations as a result. This has kinda come to a temporary halt with the Boomer generation; the most persistently lazy, hypocritical, self-absorbed generation still living.
* The boomer generation got rich like no other generation off the back of economies based upon always cheap oil, and when oil stopped being cheap with the 70s oil crisis the boomers decided to ignore the problem leaving it for their kids and grand-kids to pay for when they are no longer paying tax and when oil has become anything but cheap, i.e., right now.
* The boomers leaving GenX and GenY'rs in the UK with a WWII sized national debt and ever increasing taxes to service the debt, and the health and pension care cost for the long lived boomers.
* Boomers insistence that nothing has every really topped the 60s/70s while denying all memory of those years except to add that they didn't inhale.
* Most generations tend to leave the next generation better off, if only by a little, boomers look to want to take it all with them.
* Why. No. Flying. Cars?!?!?!
I could go on but I'd only start frothing in earnest.
In Group A you have lazy work shy employees who want to do as little work as possible for as much reward as possible (i.e. everyone in the public sector)
In Group B you have callous private sector employers reluctantly handing over the minimum legal amounts of money, time off and rewards to their employees, pocketing as much as possible for themselves and, if they can't find a loophole, paying the goobers in Group A through taxes.
Then you've got the bastards in the financial sector who will happily skull ---- there own grandmother if it'll make them an extra million - which they will dutifully burn on tasteless extravagance.
Group C... Workshy dole scroungers pissed on cheep cider.
Now that's everyone insulted :)
The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't. - Ernest Rutherford (Baron Rutherford of Nelson) 1871-1937
"All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
As a physicist, I completely agree...
Thanks for balancing the discussion with your final paragraphs in favour of the GenMe/GenY (My demographics mean I don't belong to this group (but close to it in some ways) BTW so my feedback is not self-serving).
According to how you report their survey, they have a point about the increasing demands of this social group but they fail to explain why, dismissing these as unjustified.
Your interpretation offers reasons why - which have gravity: increasing housing costs and longer hours to meet these. Before I got to the last paragraphs I was ready to say "too right", but was enlightened by your views when I finished the article.
Refreshing to read your interpretation that avoids clique maintenance whereby a generation views others with disregard and less worth than themselves.
It would be more accurate to say that people of my generation (who are apparently lazy) actually get stuff done without having to do overtime because they have better tools available and aren't too stupid to figure out how to use them (as pretty much everyone of "generation x" seem to be). This obviously makes the older crowd feel a little jealous.
However - there are A LOT of work shy wasters of my age here in the UK. They don't get jobs though they just sponge off the rest of us. Please don't lump me in with them.
Oh and narcissism is much better than pitiful modesty.
"Oh and narcissism is much better than pitiful modesty"
Wait what? I wasn't aware people actually believed that.
Are you commenting on the 'digital immigrant' vs 'digital native' divide, or just accusing everybody older than you of being stupid?
Eighties 'Loads o' money' mentality
A male cosmetics industry – cosmetic being the operative word
the Dalai Lama
Martin Luther King
... i cant even finish writing this comm
...no losers here anymore. It's your human right to do f***k all for more reward!!
Welcome to the 21st Century.
for the better in many respects. i bought my house 5 years before my mum and dad could afford to buy one (relatively lol) but on the flipside my fiance will most likely have to work most of her life, unlike my mother.
personally i say 5 days on 2 days off can fuck right off! ive been on a 4 day week for the last year (when we had redundancies i said i would go to 4 days and freelance the friday). have i done any? nope. its been the best year of employment in my career. every friday off!
if we could only sort out society so that we worked less days (i still work 8am to 5pm), maybe more people could jobshare, employment would rocket, and although we are a little bit less off we are much happier and can spend more time with family etc. some people love working (never met one myself) but unless i was megan foxes knickers i couldnt think of a job i would want to do for 40 hours a week! i also think they might want to get a better life if work is so good (generally escaping from kids and mrs from my experience)
of course with tiny unemployment, tax would go down and so might crime.
surely there has to be more to life that working most of your day?
To summarize - All of generation Y is French?
Every generation is made up of a combination of people who either a) try to work as little as possible whilst trying to earn as much as possible; or b) those that are willing to work extra hours and extra hard for that little bit extra.
I certainly fall into category A whilst my flatmate (same age as me) is defintely a catgeory B. From the older generation my Dad was a definite category B, whilst our next door neighbour (same age as my dad) was a definite catgeory A. All of us are professionals who are good at our job, but we have different focuses in life, thats just the way we are. My dad lived to work, i work to live. Neither is better or worse, just different.
With the release of these sorts of results being heralded as some sort of scientific breakthrough, social sciences will fall that little further into the realms of ridicule...
...I suspect we are achieving more, even with more days off and having our washing done for us by our employers.
Carousel here we come...
Shivering in fetal position GenXer
... a complete and utter twenge.
Like, pay you can actually live of in a way that reflects your output? No? Sorry, but experiencing work/payoff imbalance "due to the economy" while I'm still being taxed to death and nickled and dimed at every corner completely messes with my attitude towards work, dunno why that is. Won't reflect it too much, since I'm too lazy.
This is how our education system works. Don't actually instill any kind of work ethic in the new generations, instead just make the exams easier and easier in an effort to improve grades across the board.
Mind you, if I were a kid just out of school, I certainly wouldn't be bloody working if I could get away with it. You're supposed to have fun when you're a young adult, go travel, see the world, live from bins, not bow to the pressure of your older peers.
Anyway, with the amount of money our ancestors have paid out to all these international mega-corporations, I think it's about time they started spreading the love (and cash) a bit more. :D
everyone is lazy, except me
"Working is for chumps." To which replied Homer, "Son, I'm proud of you. I was twice your age when I figured that out."
Oh sh*t, they've started without me.
Could it be any way related to the government's official policy of children only being praised for their schoolwork, and never criticised?
Spare the rod and spoil the child, or something.
Christ this makes me sound like a Daily Mail reader...now I know what anonymity button is for.
Paris...because nobody understands the concept of money for nothing better.
"Could it be any way related to the government's official policy of children only being praised for their schoolwork, and never criticised?"
Given that the study was done in the US, no, probably not.
I suppose your teacher didn't cane you hard enough when you failed at reading comprehension?
I seem to remember an article on here not too long back regarding uni leavers and how they are all expecting to waltz into a company and get the most amazing job going in there, due to the unis over selling what they offer. So part of the initial arguments in this article could well be related to that, young people are promised the world by colleges/unis and then expect it to be delivered?
I think a larger part of this however is down to the fact that people are better off being on benefits than starting part time jobs. Looking around I can see hundreds of part time jobs, but I know people currently living on JSA and housing benefit and they get £45 or whatever a week in JSA. If they then start earning £100 per week on a part time job the extra £55 is taken straight off them toward the housing benefit and they get the same £45, despite working.
Now tell me, who in their right mind would happily work for nothing extra?
Frankly at 27 I doubt I could put myself into this. But basically for me I have skills I like to use them but I also want to be payed fairly(no that does NOT mean 1% above minimal wage). I'll work 8h/day for that not a problem. But it really depends on the work. If I need to handle Windows systems then I want a 20% higher premium because I value my sanity more. If it's Unix/Linux I'm happy with what I get.
I'm lazy as hell but I'll do the work given to me in a timely manner. There is a difference between being lazy vs not wanting to work. I like working if the work is interesting. And I will work to the best of my ability. It's my own pride that causes this. Sadly most others in the same age group seem to be more interested in the pay check then in the work.
I guess I'm lucky that I have a place to stay that doesn't cost me(as in my huge room at home). I pay my part of the costs and groceries. What good is for a young person to flee home as soon as they can if all they do then is spent 12h/day working for that paycheck that mostly goes to covering their rent or new home.
Apart from the living at home bit (I couldn't wait to leave uni) you seem like my absolute double.
Lazy - Check
Do required work - check
Expect higher pay for Windows - check
Like the work if interesting - check...
I'm starting to wonder if I have some mental problem which has caused me to forget posting an ever-so-slightly inaccurate comment here... I recently told the DVLA I was 27, when I'm actually 28, due to forgetting how old I was.
Ah well, if I'm loosing my marbles, at least I'm enjoying it :)
I started forgetting my age around my mid twenties too. I thought I was a year older because I'd been anticipating being that particular age for no real reason, and then I reached that age and had a nice birthday where I didn't feel any older.
As for wages, my dad keeps saying that nobody wants to pay a proper wage any more, and he's in his sixties. (And I agree with that).
When I saw the title of the article I expected the comments to be full of the usual parade of ageing IT warriors bitter at seeing the younger generation come in and shake things up a bit.
I'm deeply, deeply disappointed that this hasn't been the case (so far), I always enjoy a bit of vitriol with my lunch. Standards are slipping....
Don't forget this spoiled generation, got a free ride from their parents for 20+ years on average. Perhaps we should require that this be paid back, like college loans, which of course would be many times more expensive than the modest pensions you are braying about.
"Don't forget this spoiled generation, got a free ride from their parents for 20+ years on average. Perhaps we should require that this be paid back, like college loans, which of course would be many times more expensive than the modest pensions you are braying about."
It's actually Gen X that got the free ride; your employers and the government committed to benefits for you which they have massively underfunded. Younger generations will take a hit on their benefits, pay and taxes for many years to fund the cost of your pensions.
You also seem to be forgetting the part of your life where you have a rather good statistical chance of being severely disabled and requiring very expensive full-time care. Which your kids will probably have to pay for...
(What is it with 'this generation', anyway? Are you suggesting previous generations didn't shelter, clothe and feed their children?)
Prior to WW2 most families used island daycare centers (leading to the original phrase "spare the boulder and spoil the child"), but this was mainly for the boys, girls being mainly consigned to stables and learning bto rush hair and how to grow-up as a horse, which was a prized trait among the British upper-class in particular even now.
The sad truth is that the generous welfare state (universal education, health care, cradle-to-grave social care, etc.) has favoured those born and raised closest to its inception, with the current generation finding that they are paying for their own 3rd level education (fees and living cost), paying for their own pensions rather than seeing even partial employer payments ("final salary" is now meaningless), private dental care, rationed health-care, private child care (since both parents often have to work).
GenY isn't the me-generation, its the why-me-generation, the generation that arrived at the party of western civilization to find that it was 4am, the booze low, the bathroom full of sick, useless grumpy bodies decorating sofas and occupying all the beds, and a rumor that neighbors might turn vigilante after the police ignored the rumpus and chaos earlier in the party. Still at least the music got better.
Anecdotal evidence supports this. But the report sounds only about the workplace and not at home. Laziness in the younger generation is even more noticable there.
I am of the older generation and spend most of my waking hours working, including the hours outside employment. I am currently redecorating two rooms simultaneously (one involving re-plumbing), getting an overgrown one-acre garden under control, moving a large greenhouse and recovering the data from a failed disk drive. After that I'll be installing a hot water tank, repairing a roof, re-painting the house outside and extending a garage. As well as routine car and house maintenance, developing for a software project and running several web-sites. OK, those last are hobbies.
Having grown up with me, my daughter is shocked by the laziness of her live-in boy-friend - he does no jobs at home at all. Other younger visitors are gob-smacked by the scale of the work I do at home.
But a large proportion of men of my generation do similar, and did when younger too. In the 1970's most men under 25 spent their weekends "doing up" old cars and keeping them running. Now all the younger people that I know expect to buy new cars and not to open the bonnet.
My niece works full time so considers herself entitled to do no work at home. Her husband works full time too and does all the cooking and housework, but nothing else. (Dual incomes is the reason for high house prices btw). Any repair job around the house is done by a white van man. Wondered why there are so many white vans driving around? - there were nowhere near so many 20 years ago. On Saturdays he is entirely involved with watching football (including travelling for aways), and on Sundays he recovers from Saturdays. She reads magazines, shops and chats to friends all weekend.
YMMV, but historically, there *are* cultural changes between the generations.
You goddam kids with your hair and your music! Get offa my lawn!
If you have the money to do so, why not do that? Life is ultimately for living!
Now, admittedly, I'm mid to late thirties and have recently tiled a floor, re-felted a roof as well as usual house and computing maintenance.
Of course, the main reason I do this myself, aside from learning new skills, is to save money. I feel slightly better that now I know how to correctly cut and lay tiles, but I'd prefer it the time was spent on tasks I enjoy or I believe make a difference. If the cost after buying tiles and grout and budgeting for a proper tile cutter wasn't that difficult I'd have got a professional in and saved several evenings of hassle.
Once I've paid the mortgage off, assuming I have plenty of spare cash, my priorities may shift.. 'He was really good at DIY' is not a great epithet - 'They went to lots of exciting places and created new things/helped other people' is.
I'm not so sure whether it's more that people who're only just entering the workforce have less realistic expectations than those who have been working for decades and thus have experience both of what it's like, and a good picture of where they fit in to things.
Did they compare Boomers/Xers now against youngsters now, or as they were in the '60s/'70s/'80s?
Put it this way...
When my dad entered work, on a shop floor with lots of young workers, it was perfectly normal to "make up" jobs to show the time and measures man; this meant they got... wait for it... paid more for less work. His contemporaries had a terrible attitude, resented their elders for earning more and holding higher-status positions, and all the things this study points out as Millennial-specific characteristics.
Admittedly a sample size of one isn't particularly useful, but given "lazy youngsters" has been such a longstanding theme of history, it does suggest this is merely a state of mind that people go through as they start work - and that time/experience tends to modulate the less realistic of their expectations.
A sample size of one isn't just useful, it's decisive. As long as it's my sample. That's how things work on the internet.
"Funnily enough, it seems that what they want is more pay for less work."
Isn't that what everyone wants?