What happened to Netscape Navigator?

It's true that Opera 'moans' about things quite often, and its also true how often those moans lead to better products for all of us (Not just Opera Users).

Remember IE6? After Microsoft had pushed Netscape (remember them?) out of the competition and ruled supreme over the world wide web, guess what they did? Nothing. IE6 sat on its arse for years, no inovation, no progress. You know why? they had no competition.

Maybe you use IE8 now, maybe you don't (firefox, chrome or safari maybe, probably not opera seeing as your post doesn't exactly raise them into the heavens), but if you look at the top of your browser I bet you can see tabs. And I bet it even supports transparent PNG images. who knows, it may even be somewhat standard compliant.

And do you know WHY your browser has this? I'll give you a hint: it's not because microsoft was able to leverage the inherent savings in being a market leader: It's because Firefox, Opera and Safari started kicking their arse (Assuming that your using one of the IE browsers).

So yes, Opera 'moans' whenever something seems off in the browsers world, which I for one am thankful for :)

Lets hope we never return to the 'golden years' of IE6 again ;)

Irony

And cue moaners moaning over things they don't understand. How come those who whine about Opera are always the biggest whiners themselves?

Actually . . .

Given Opera's ~1% desktop market share, I'd say Microsoft's decision to develop IE 7 and 8 can be squarely attributed to the success of Firefox, with Chrome adding some Johnny-come-lately pressure these days.

Browser updates

AFAIK all the listed browsers (excepting IE, due to it being handled by Windows update) will alert the user and/or automatically update themselves when new releases are available.

Monopoly

The pure definition of monopoly is 100% ownership of a market. The current legal and political definition is a large enough market share to direct the market in spite of competitors' opposition. Usually this means over 80%, often over 90% market share.

Microsoft has this in the OS market. Apple does not. Microsoft gets regulated. Apple does not.

I appreciate that you titled your post "Rubbish" to warn other readers off of it, but it really would have been better not to post it at all.

doh...

Er... by your own definition Microsoft don't have a monopoly in the OS market.... unless of ocurse those users with Macs or linus desktops are being fooled and really do have MS products.

To add to what Steven said...

@Bear Features: Apple haven't interwoven their browser into the OS unnecessarily to leverage that dominant position in a bid to control the web either, have they?! Apple got caught trying to foist Safari onto unwitting iTunes users on Windows, and rightly got a bollocking for it! Honesty; "Boo-hoo! Poor little Microsoft got caught cheating and are being punished and big (HA!), mean, nasty Apple aren't! Boo-hoo s'not fair!" Grow up!

Choice?

"Now how about a choice of media player, email client, instant messenger"

Indeed. In fact, while we are at it how about a choice of the actual OS? Why are MS allowed to bully the world + dog into purchasing their products in the first place?

Why does the EU only concern themselves with this nonsense about browser choice when the underlying problem continues to go unaddressed?

Self esteem issues?

You care enough to comment. Do you think you're a nobody? Have a pint!

Do what??

Yeah, I'm sure the hardware manufacturers love the idea of selling bare kit then having to field call after call from poor users trying to install operating systems!

They PREFER a single OS choice as it makes their lives easier, they get to sell turnkey systems, and even make a bit on the side bundling guff no-one really wants but might be persuaded to buy anyway...

OEMS are idiots

They've allowed MS to commoditize the industrys hardware products while retaining a premium price on their own and now they are stuck with competing with each other on price because basically all of the PC's on the shelves are the same as each other sans the badge on the front. (apple excepted)

Every year PC's get cheaper and every year MS software doesn't.

There is a reason that MS has a "no changes to the user interface allowed" clause on all their OEM contracts. They knew full well that if HP went and gave their PC's a "HP look and feel" that Microsoft would lose the "brand advantage" and it would leave the door open for OEMs to make their own OS offerings (or modify existing OSS products) that had the same "look and feel" as their old customized Windows products.

So MS said, "No, you won't be doing that" and the manufacturers, as always, bent over and took it rather than risk having to pay a few extra dollars for whatever crap Redmond was pushing at them that week.

Now these idiot companies are all left with flogging crappy, built-to-a-price knock offs that are virtually indistinguishable from their competitors crap while MS makes obscene amounts of money and can increase their prices at will. And the OEMS don't have a choice other than "break out the lube and drop those trousers" every time MS chooses to do so. If they are indeed "happy" about that state of affairs then they deserve everything they get.

As for being happy only having to support one OS, well, all I can say is if they had any cahones whatsoever they would never have allowed themselves to get in a position where they are DOING SUPPORT FOR ANOTHER COMPANIES PRODUCT in the first place. Yeah, yeah, I know the OEM price is "cheaper" because they do the support themselves. I also know that Jewellers shops are in a state of "Sale! 50% OFF) every week.

Getting something "cheaper" from someone who can dictate whatever price does not equal good value.

Fail for the OEMs of the world.

Re: Do what??

Please try to read *every* word of comments you're responding to, like the bit which says "give people the *option* of having something preinstalled". Please also note that Windows isn't necessarily ready to use when starting a newly purchased machine, either - it has to do various initialisation things - and I imagine that this doesn't go unnoticed by a certain proportion of customers.

And since when did any vendor really offer great support for Windows? Most of the Windows experience is pushing you directly to microsoft.com when you are "troubleshooting": a wizard opens, you fill out the fields, it tells you it can't help and crashes. Meanwhile, the ridiculously short warranty means that for many people the vendor has already washed their hands of any kind of support at all by the time stuff really goes south. The vendor-branded "rescue disk" - not even a proper OS disk because Microsoft thinks you might be a "pirate" - might not even work by the time you need it.

And in fact, the retailer is always the first port of call for any kind of sales and warranty issues, which is what this is: that's enshrined in consumer legislation in Europe, contradicting the "call the manufacturer" shit that the average electrical retailer will come out with when you have any kind of problem. So why not have any problems handled by the retailer, anyway? If you regret your choice of OS, just take the computer back and have something installed on it. They could even offer this as a service, just like some retailers offer the service of uninstalling the crapware foisted on consumers right now. At least the former kind of service is honest and transparent, not like a car dealership selling you a vehicle and you then having to go back and pay them to unblock the opening to the petrol tank.

So, all this would take is to offer people the choice and for that choice to be upheld, not to allow creative accounting tricks to be used against the purchaser by forcing crapware on everyone because it suits the vendor and Microsoft.

Behave

Some people are upgrading from XP which used the browser for updates.

Just because you had Vista, doesn't mean everyone else is upgrading from that.

If they're upgrading to Windows 7

what fucking difference does XP's update method make?

The browser update is only for Windows 7.

Are you really as stupid as your post sounds?

Re: can someone explain...

Because Apple is not a monopoly in the desktop market. What control Apple has is over a market sectors not the market itself, it's only when the controlled sectors in total represent domination of the market (which Microsoft has) will anti-trust legislation kick in.

*Ugh!*

Can you buy different MP3 Players? Yes! Can you buy s different SCC? Yes! Do Apple have more than 90% share of any of the markets you mention? No! Fuck off then!

"Tell me how I can use my Mac and iPod but without iTunes." You can use 'your' mac without iTunes! There are PLENTY of other media managers and players out there, and most of them are free too! As for the iPod, can the Zune sync with anything other than Microsoft products? How is any of this at all related? It. Fucking. Isn't.

Beer: I need one while reading stuff like this!

Fail

Seems you are the 'Fucktard' to me.

Apple have forced IPod users to install ITunes, due to their proprietry locked down database system on the IPod. ITunes of course is in turn just a shop front for their rapidly growing music monopoly. If you want any chance of talking to the IPod you have to use the ITunes API...