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back to article New cig peril: Third-hand smoke coats puffers in poison

US federal boffins in Berkeley, California say they have discovered yet another deadly hazard associated with smoking. They also raise warnings regarding the perils associated with electronic cigarettes. The dangers of actually smoking a cigarette, and those from breathing a smoker's "second hand" smoke were well-known: but now …

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Joke

What about 4th-hand smoke?

Don't forget 4th-hand smoke! That's when a disgruntled smoker rams his 3rd-hand-smoke-covered hand into your face for stopping him smoking outside.

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Flame

As all non or ex-smokers will know.

Smokers smell (of cigarette smoke at least) even if they have smoked outside.

That cigarette smoke smells bad.

Now I'm all in favour of the smokers killing themselves off as quickly as they are able, but I am not in favour of their efforts to do so affecting me and other non-smokers.

This is just another part of the picture that tells me that smoking should be banned - is there any 'good solution' when the whole activity is danegerous to everyone.

The ONLY people that benefit are the cigarette manufacturers and the treasury.

ttfn

The above is my opinion - you can hold whatever opinion you like.

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Bronze badge
FAIL

not true

most people are suprised when they find out im a smoker !!

so stick that in your pipe and smoke it ...

oh right you dont smoke ......

if it makes any difference im not a particlary heavy smoker and i smoke rolled

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: not true

I hope you smoke outside at home, Lionel.

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Bronze badge

outside

occasionally :)

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: outside

Oh, I thought you had kids.

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: outside

Oh, I thought you had kids. Carry on. :)

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Bronze badge

yup

i dont smoke in same room as them

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Unvented

Surely the output of the unvented diesel engine I have in my living room will kill me long before I accidentally touch a nicotine-impregnated surface

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Why not ban it outright?

If smoking if sooooo dangerous to the chiiiiiilreeeen and costs so much the NHS , then why not ban it outright?

Taxes?

Crap science?

A bit like wobal glarming then.

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Silver badge
Coat

I've never smoked

But I once shook hands with someone married to a smoker. Am I going to die? Please advise.

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Happy

yep

I'm afraid so, we all will. Though most likely not from a smoke sludging snail, more likely something mundane like flattened by a car or heart attack.

Best bet is cut off your hands before it spreads up your arms!

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Go

Re: yep

Going on personal experience I am going to live forever.

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FAIL

Please

Just ban tobacco and alcohol. Legalise less (none?) harmful substances.

David Nutt knew what he was talking about.

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Hmmm

"As they do so, their clothes and skin will become coated with deadly nicotine, which will then react with nitrous acid floating inside a building - usually generated by "unvented gas appliances" or diesel engines"

I say get rid of the diesel engines and let the smokers back inside.

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Grenade

It's a vile, smelly, toxic and deadly poison

"nicotine residues will stick to a smoker's skin and clothing" - no fucking shit, Sherlock.

As for "burning sooty treats" - to characterize it as some innocent pastime is disingenuous.

If tobacco were introduced to the market today, it would, quite rightly, be banned from sale.

I see no reason to allow it, simply because it's been around for a while. It should be banned outright and, like it or not, we all know it.

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FAIL

introduced today

yeh just like alcohol and cars and motorbikes. All far too dangerous and much too much fun, it should never have been allowed :)

in fact glass can go too, much too easy to cut yourself and there plastics instead, and pins, they're a bit risky aren't they, lets have blue tack instead.

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Coat

Re: It's a vile, smelly, toxic and deadly poison

I think burning Sooty is going a bit far.

http://tinyurl.com/yj5vhlr

Mine's the one with the magic wand and Preparation H in the pocket

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WTF?

California BS

I'm an ex smoker and this is bullshit, you're not going to develop cancer because someone previously smoked a cigarette in the general area that you're standing in.

Anyone genuinely concerned about this should just give it up, go and live in a plastic bubble, drink distilled water and only breathe air that has gone through a series of military grade carbon filters, because you'll be exposed to far more toxins in your general environment everyday just by working in an office, walking by an inner city road or probably eating a kebab.

This is just more things on the list of stuff for the mincing, anti-smoker, crybaby to complain about.

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Any made up statistics to go with this?

I'm an ex-smoker (not normally the most tolerant of non-smokers), but, whilst I can accept that there is a risk from secondary smoke, this sounds like a load of tosh.

Exactly what statistical evidence do they have to support this, or is it just supposition? Do they make any guesses as to how many people will die because of this, or what the increase in your chances of developing cancer are? I would humbly suggest that the answer for both is "not a lot".

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Anonymous Coward

to

To the pods everybody in order to live safe, long and, healthy lives we must stay in our self contained capsules with a drip feed of nutrient suppliments and a constant stream of Friends, the Simpsons and Desperate housewives!

I'll take my chances with the third hand slime smoke of death.

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Bronze badge

ok ...

This seems to make out this stuff is so deadly a single ciggarette could wipe out an entire continent

Because they have overhyped something so much again i wont be listening again !!!

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Coat

Also in the news... 10th hand sex causes leprosy

Is this what the world is coming to? Identifying every conceivable thing that could possibly harm you is ridiculous. Last I checked, having sex these days is like playing Russian roulette, and yet we still do it. The human race would have died out without it. It's called RISK vs. REWARD. Cigarettes fall under this rule too. They can be fun, but they can also kill you. We all know this.

Do these researchers have nothing better to do than go after smokers? Crying babies piss me off and cause me stress... which raises my blood pressure... which can cause hyper-tension, cardiac arrest & stroke. So, by their logic, we should kill all babies because they cause me harm. COME ON!

How about research into something useful? How about working on making better electric cars so that normal cars can be got rid of? I bet one car causes more harm to the air that several dosen smokers in the same period.

Seriously, the world has more pressing problems that need dealing with.

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veering off topic here

@ Juliusz "Cigarettes fall under this rule too. They can be fun, but they can also kill you."

Serious question - what do you (or smokers in general) get out of smoking (the "fun" part)? I, perhaps unwisely, tried it once and didn't detect any effect (good or bad) at all.

Is it *really* only ever started through peer pressure, and only continued to avoid withdrawal symptoms?

Difficult to believe if so.

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Rob
Bronze badge
Boffin

Effect

Causes a mild euphoric feeling, in the victorian times the upper classes used to drink sweet tea and smoke and that was one of the most popular past times/vices, hence why "tea rooms" were so prevalent at the time.

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Thumb Up

Off topic: To each his own

Perhaps 'fun' was not the word I should use. I my personal case, I find smoking pleasurable. It's not any rush I go after (never been aware of any narcotic rush), but rather the actual act. It's probably an oral fixation of some kind.

I enjoy it, which is why I don't do it constantly. I don't smoke all day when I'm at work and I rarely smoke at home. If I smoked all the time, it would become too routine and thus boring and not enjoyable, and I would have to stop for a while to regain the pleasure aspect.

I didn't start smoking through peer pressure. I was well out of school before I started smoking. And I continue now because, as I've mentioned, I enjoy it. It has happened before that I suddenly lost all interest in smoking and stopped for many months. It suddenly didn't feel pleasurable anymore. I don't know why it happens but I know that it does. That's not to say that other people do it for the nicotine or whatever other reason.

I hope that answers your questions.

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Flame

Bet you didn't inhale ;)

Smoking keeps me calm. You don't want to see me when I get angry.

Stress also causes cancer, Reports of stuff that might give me cancer.

Therefore we need to ban all reports of stuff that might give you cancer

QED

Off for a smoke

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Black Helicopters

Oh noes!

Does this mean we'll all have to have a decontaminant shower when we come back from the smoking area?

Or maybe it means that we'll have to smoke through a tube from inside sealed boxes?

What's the bets the nanny state jumps on this with more ridiculous laws?

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Grenade

This just in: 4th-hand smoke peril...

... which occurs when normal people slap the **** out of stinky nasty smokers.

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Stop

Discrimination.

"Anonymous Coward".

Maybe it's because I only quit smoking a few months ago, but I haven't got to the point where I feel it my God-given right to look down on an entire group of people who are merely enjoying a legal pastime.

Replace the word "smokers" in your sad little hatespeak with some other minority group, like "blacks" or "asians", and you'd, quite rightly, fall foul of discrimination laws in the UK, but you take a pop at smokers, and it's not only acceptable, but actively endorsed by our political "leaders", and wholeheartedly encouraged within the parameters of the politically correct social experiment we're currently undergoing - it's something that disgusts me about the state this country is in, and the mentality of the people who have brought us to this point.

Not AC, because unlike some, I have the courage of my convictions to stand behind what I say.

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Re: Discrimination.

If you're going to suggest smokers are a minority in the same sense that black people are a minority, Sean, I am going to suggest that you check your head.

I don't think any sort of hate directed at any group is especially big or clever or good for the world (and you'd better believe that as a journo I cop for enough abuse in that sense), but that is a ludicrous and offensive leap to make. So don't. Please. Ta. Find another way to argue your point. This kind of thread is wearisome enough as it is.

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Anonymous Coward

Risks

I'm not a smoker and never have been but it seems to me that there is a certain hysteria around the subject. If you believed what the government and media seem to give out you'd think one puff and you'll die.

What I'd like to see is some clear indication of risk. So, for example, if you smoke twenty a day you have a 1 in X chance of dying from a disease you wouldn't otherwise have had. I'd like to know the same for second hand smoke where you work in the same room as a smoker and then for someone who goes to a pub once a week where people smoke. Then could we have similar figures for the risk of third hand smoke?

All I've seen so far is talk about smoking "related" disease risk, which seems a bit of a get out or "fudge". I accept that smoking is not a good thing and I don't want to encourage it but I'd like to have a better handle on the facts.

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Orly?

Just because limits of detection are improving, doesn't mean that what we are discovering is strictly relevant.

I'm an ex smoker, and even I find these sort of reports tiresome.

“Nicotine, the addictive substance in tobacco smoke, has until now been considered to be non-toxic in the strictest sense of the term,” says Kamlesh Asotra of the University of California’s Tobacco-Related Disease Research Program, which funded this study"

sorry Kamlesh, you are wrong. Its extremely toxic, in the strictest sense of the word.

From Wikipedia: The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 40–60 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans. Why do you think its used as an insecticide.

Interesting analytical chemistry with a cheeky hint of sanctimonious zeal

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FAIL

And the relative risk ratio is...?

Well, there's a surprise. They don't say. They didn't even attempt to discover it.

This is exactly what you get when scientists follow the state's agenda. Time to scrap Government-sponsored "research".

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Anonymous Coward

*Sigh.*

“I have something to tell you non-smokers that I know for a fact that you don't know, and I feel it's my duty to pass on information at all times. Ready?. . . . Non-smokers die every day . . . Enjoy your evening. See, I know that you entertain this eternal life fantasy because you've chosen not to smoke, but let me be the 1st to POP that bubble and bring you hurling back to reality . . . You're dead too.”

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@AC *Sigh.* 10:36

If you are going to quote Bill Hicks at least give him the credit.

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Bronze badge

ahhh

many a happy time laughing my head on the train to berlin

thx for the memories

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Go

Or...

...they could just make cigarette manufacturers put the filter on the correct end. I admit it would require smokers to make some fairly tricky lingual contortions to avoid the ash falling on their tongues, but a suitable instructional leaflet could surely be included in every packet.

More seriously, wouldn't it make much more sense to treat tobacco smoke as any other pollutant and regulate it accordingly? - would an industrial process be allowed to release similar amounts of tar/nicotine/whatever in a public place?

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regulated smoke

What, you mean make smokers buy CO2 trading licenses, and purchase each drag on a commodities exchange? That sounds so unworkable that I have a really nasty feeling I shouldn't have suggested it. Potential Tory manifesto item?

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@California BS

"I'm an ex smoker and this is bullshit, you're not going to develop cancer because someone previously smoked a cigarette in the general area that you're standing in."

Put your money where your mouth is. Personally risk your home and money by offering it to the next person who on balance of probability got cancer through second hand smoke. If its bullshit there is no risk to you.

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well...

way to completely miss what he just said....

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FAIL

re:@California BS

OK, I'll take you up on that...

Oh, wait a minute...

The article is about "3rd hand smoke" not people who end up being forced to passive smoke (2nd hand) for long periods of time (think bar staff).

Oh, wait another minute.....

Pubs, clubs and bars are now smoke free too.

Oh, hang on...

All enclosed public areas and buildings are and have been for ages, smoke free.

So who exactly is at risk of developing cancer from even "2nd hand smoke" never mind "3rd hand smoke"?

Go on, who?

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Sign of the times?

Is there anything we can do these days which /doesn't/ get labelled as child abuse?

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Doomage

According to the study, "our results indicate that several hundred nanograms per square meter of nitrosamines may be formed on indoor surfaces in the presence of nitrous acid". This is a shocking result as it shows that 1 square meter of wall in a smoky room in a badly polluted environment may contain as much nitrosamines as a smoked sausage or crispy bacon sandwich!

We are all doomed.

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Unhappy

You git...

I was really enjoying this bacon sahnie :(

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Grenade

Oh Dear

So.. the anti-smoking brigade(*), unable to cope with the fact that a dwindling number of rational, intellegent people still smoke privately while fully aware of the risks, need a hook to get it banned altogether.

Ta-Daa!

(*) Were saving lives! how dare you criticize us! we can do no wrong and you are a child murder, waaa! you MUST do what we say.

- As I approach middle age I am really anxious I will end up like them; but hopefully the fags will kill me before I get that sad.

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Coat

convince the inland revenue first

smoking is not a good thing to do for anyone we know and love to do, or anyone (so we learn from TFA) to do in our vicinity.

But everyone else: yeah, bring it on. The IRS is the real "grim reaper" with the 'baccy: they bring in £10 billion p.a, and the NHS pays out only £5 bn for smoke-related illnesses. So everyone's a winner other than those cigarette-suckers! That's the cynical reason why smoking isn't banned.

OK, I'll get my coat, mine's the one with the pack of L&B, thanks.

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Stop

IRS ??

Since when did we pay tax to the US?

Inland Revenue or IR or HMRC, perhaps

Next you'll be telling us the emergency number is 911 ...

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Grenade

Replace the walls?

"the Berkeley profs recommend that the carpets, walls, furniture and ceilings be replaced."

Er doesn't that normally mean rebuilding the bloody thing? So we have to rebuild anywhere people have smoked? Is this 'research' to be used of the driver for some sort of Keynesian mass rebuilding programme?

Where the fuck do we get to smoke in peace now? Or do we have to take our chances with the bears having a dump?

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Paris Hilton

Hmmm

"the Berkeley profs recommend that the carpets, walls, furniture and ceilings be replaced."

And in entirely unrelated news, the Berkeley profs have just started an interior design and refurbishment company.

Wouldn't surprise me anyway.

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