pot calling the kettle...
Steve Jobs has dubbed Google's "don't be evil" mantra "bullshit." Or at least "a load of crap." According to multiple reports, Jobs unloaded on Google last week during an Apple "town hall" meeting at the company's One Infinite Loop headquarters. As originally reported by Wired, the Apple cult leader attacked his former Mountain …
Do you suppose he's a bit narked everyone's taking the piss out of his new baby?
Hitler - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjO89DU3oBk
Dom Joly - http://www.funnyordie.co.uk/videos/d2b714361c/hello
Even Peewee Herman! - http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f7a03edbd7/pee-wee-gets-an-ipad
So..."bullshit" and " a load of crap" are different how?
Both refer to large amounts of fecal matter.
The specification of the bovine nature of the matter.
There are differences between it and, say, the human or canine version. If jobs were referring to cattle-based manure, that's OK. If it's human, then it's slightly less pleasing.
...whichever way you look at it, it came out of Steve's mouth.
I say the same exact thing about most of Apple's recent products: they're bullshit, or at the very least a load of crap.
Though they do know how to make their stuff look pretty, and they know how to make weak-minded people give in to temptation (and come back later to defend their weakness by telling us how awesome their expensive toys are), but other than that I don't see them as more or less evil than Google, Microsoft or any other massive corporation.
Evil Stevie icon, because it was put there for articles just like this one.
And here is a perfect example of the innate need to mock and deride any minority. Of course, you have extensive experience of Apples products, thereby enabling you to come to your reasoned and intelligent conclusion.
What's that? You don't own any Apple products? STFU, then.
This is exactly what I meant. Point proven!
I respectfully disagree with your assessment. In my opinion you are reacting to the tendency of some to deify any Apple product by unreasonably exaggerating their negative points.
I've owned a number of Apple products, actually, but I have reasons not to think of them as highly as some others do.
Seems like some people just find it difficult to believe that there ARE people out there with real reasons not to like Apple products.
"What's that? You don't own any Apple products? STFU, then."
I don't own any Apple products apart from a battered old second-hand iPod, but I do work with them and I am expected to support them.
In my experience they are a nightmare. Ok, I'll agree that they're reliable, but that's the only good thing I can say about them. They're nasty, locked-down Fisher Price excuses for computers. They're a puzzle to configure, a pain to customize, and if anything does go wrong they're reluctant to spit out anything remotely useful.
As for Macs and Active Directory? Don't even get me started...
maybe you should find another profession if you can not figure out a "Fisher-Price" computer. sad.
But when was the last time you got a Fisher Price toy to do anything useful?
"I say the same exact thing about most of Apple's recent products: they're bullshit, or at the very least a load of crap."
But you didn't have the balls to post that under your own name though did you?
He's right - "Don't be evil" is a load of crap, it's just a shame it's taken him till now to say it.
one never knows what a rabid Apple fanboi can do.
And don't think I disagree with what he said.
Of course, "don't be evil" has always been a load of crap - everybody knows that. However, the interesting thing is not that it took Steve till now to say it but the context in which he said it: "Google attacks the JesusPhone _therefore_ must be evil." And this is a comparable amount of crap. But what did you expect from Holy Steve?
(Steve, cause this is as close to a crap icon as it gets)
No part of my post made judgement on Apple or Steve Jobs or anyone, except the post I replied to.
It is high time people started calling Google what they are - scary, power mad control freaks.
Are Apple the same?
Quite possibly - on the other hand - Apple have never declared a desire to be the gate keepers of all human knowledge.
You didn't reply to a post. That's why everyone is confused.
Jobs is scared of the Googlephone.
iPhone killer? I don't know. But surely more consumer choice is a good thing right?
Jobs temperatmentally is a control freak. The way the industry has evolved is like a sort of business petri dish with lots of uncoordinated activities merging, combining, competing, and all kinds of products and companies coming out of the process. This is something Jobs cannot stand.
The ideal for him, and with the iPhone and the iPod he gets as close as he dares, is to have you only able to do or load onto your Apple device what Apple allows you to. All developers and all writers or musicians or publishers will do as they or told or get cut off. Users will buy what they are given.
You want a Touch with usb mode? Tough. You want to copy your tracks over using a file manager? Tough. You want an app that is not in the App store? Tough. You want a mid range Core2 tower for your OS that has a couple hard drive slots? You my friend are SOL. Go down to Walmart you redneck, while you still can, and buy your cheap beige box to go with those TV dinners.
Its a weird mixture of snobbery and control and contempt for the buyers. Ugly stuff. Very ugly indeed.
Where one "i"-toy comes, the rest follows. With their own filesharing protocol, discovery protocol, own inter-toy communication and all of them tightly bundled around iTunes.
Apple is the ultimate Vertical. I am surprised they did not take the relationship with ATT further and did not launch an Apple ISP which kind-a works with non-Apple toys, but works properly only on Apple hardware. Probably the Death Star did not want to bend over that far...
"And thus St Jobs did ascend the mountain of Googleplex and, showing no mercy, harrow all gHell before him in accordance to the scripture..."
Google should just be straightforward about their megalomaniacal intentions. Let us stop waiting in suspense. for the day when the friendly Google logo will read, 'w3 0wnz j0000'.
I'm not saying it was nice, but I notice that I don't share in Jobs' pain, about Apple's competition.
Oh well! :shrug:
Well obviously he's going to go for a non-specific type of shit here.
If he let slip exactly which sort of shit he was talking about, Google might move into it first.
I previously though that Steve Jobs relished a bit of honest to goodness competition... I guess not...
What's next? Throwing a chair?
Does anyone else feel like this is decade is going to be interesting?
2010 has kicked off with a whole lot of posturing, from Apple, Google, Amazon and book publishers even. Who's next? Do we actually get anything sensible out of it all?
Feels like a good time for a new underdog, but would anyone notice them amid all the bickering?
I foresee a future where MS become the good guys again. Weird thought huh?
So Jobs believes that "Don't Be Evil" means "don't compete commercially"? I didn't realise that capitalism was evil now, I thought that was still communism.
On balance tho, he's spot on with Flash...
This year Google is *again* pouring loads of money into GSoC, where they pay many students and organizations to write open source. I still need to see Apple give the Open Source community anything back (Apple is very good at taking, not just your money but also your code).
Well there's WebKit, of course. Chances are your phone uses it.
All contributed to or originated by Apple. They've also worked the OpenCL spec through Kronos.
And all the upstream devs complained that apple took stuff and the patches they "gave back" were basically made intentionally-difficult-to-merge. Let's not mistake things that apple have done for their own benefit with some sort of community spirit.
GCC: http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/History (1987, not Apple or Jobs ... Stallman)
LLVM: http://llvm.org/pubs/2002-12-LattnerMSThesis.html (2002, Chris Lattner UIUC)
CUPS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUPS (1997 not Apple, Sweet, later bought by Apple)
"Michael Sweet, who owns Easy Software Products, started developing CUPS in 1997. The first public betas appeared in 1999. The original design of CUPS used the LPD protocol, but due to limitations in LPD and vendor incompatibilities, the Internet Printing Protocol (IPP) was chosen instead. CUPS was quickly adopted as the default printing system for several Linux distributions, including Red Hat Linux. In March 2002, Apple Inc. adopted CUPS as the printing system for Mac OS X 10.2. In February 2007, Apple Inc. hired chief developer Michael Sweet and purchased the CUPS source code."
Those are just the easy ones. If you care about being taken seriously, you'll want to look carefully into the development of the other applications you mention, too, as you will find Apple once again "standing on the shoulders of giants" to get to where they are, today ... just like Jobs proudly claimed with the launch of the iPhone.
So ... your favorite flavor of Jobs' Kool-Aid is ... grape?
He's right about flash. The sooner that's killed off the better.
I don't know about Apples, but if you want to finger about the only piece of software that can bring an entire Linux box to its knees, it's Flash.
That is not the fault of Linux, Gnome, KDE, Canonical, Novell, Red Hat or anyone else. It is 100% the fault of the donkeys at Adobe for not writing their code efficiently.
HTML5 held out some hope of removing large amounts of the parasite that is Flash from the web, but Google dropped a clanger and moved away from open standards, preferring instead patent-encumbered bullshit (or should that be, load of crap?) just as Apple do.
Thus Flash will be around for ages yet and we will continue to hear dual and quad cores scream in agony as they chew through the quagmire that is Flash code. Flash does have it's place, and that place should be the dustbin of history.
This reminds me of the time Apple promised Apple Corps (the Beatles company) that they wouldn't ever go into the music business.
Then they released iTunes and er... went into the music business.
So it's ok for Jobs to muscle in on someone elses business, but he doesn't like it when the same thing happens to him? Tough. Shit.
I suggest you grow a pair Steve. If you had any confidence at all in your products then you wouldn't let a company like Google phaze you. Maybe you're upset because you know you sell expensive tat, and the thought of someone selling something popular and cheaper (tat or not) is just too much?
I do seem to recall Apple (Computers) promising Apple Corps back in the late 1970's (well, I wasn't actually born then, so the remembering part is actually remembering reading about it) that they would never enter the music business as long as Apple Corps never entered the computer business.
Is that a steaming pile of hypocrisy you're rolling around in Steve or does this tirade mean that you are effectively shutting down the music part of iTunes and stop selling these iPod's that you wax so lyrically about?
Exciting developments for sure.
The problem with the Apple "no to Flash" stance is that it reduces customer choice - so they will choose not to use Apple.
IMHO a bit of a shame. Instead I'd tell Adobe not "no" but "fix it so it works and we'll talk again".
As for Google, that's a strong reaction - they really must have pissed off each other..
Throwing his toys out of the pram because he knows he can't hold on to the smartphone market in the face of an open competitor?
He's probably also a little sore after the reception his latest creation received, and knowing full well that many Android powered devices will be breathing down the Pad's neck with better specs, prices and versatility.
Apple gets some competition, throws toys out of pram. Welcome to the world of business Steve.
Got to agree about the Flash comments though.
You quote 7 (or was it 8) words from the town meeting and it's a rant?
This from the online rag that fells acres of electronic trees a week issuing genuine rants from Vulture Towers??
Sir, you should have written the article! Excellent summation.
You deserve a pint of the good stuff.
While I pretty much agree with what you have said about Apple; "Don't be evil" probably wouldn't cover having a senior employee of your company sit on the board of another company, watching them develop a product (the iPhone) and then developing a competing product while still sitting on the now competitor's board. I would be pretty pissed off if I was Steve Jobbs.
If I may be permitted to very badly paraphrase Armando Ianucci: When was it that Google changed their motto from "don't be evil" to "we control every aspect of your lives."
The iPhone came out in June 2007. The Nexus came out in 2010. That's nearly three years. Plenty of time to develop the Nexus. I hardly think having someone on the Apple board at that time made any difference to what Google produced - 3 years later......
If development had been done in parallel, then maybe there is a conflict, but there is a three year gap (did I already mention that?)
So Apple didn't do search? Thank the (insert deity of choice). Would websites have to submit their site to Applesearch for inclusion like the appstore? I sure the wits and wags on here can think of funnier things but the thought of Apple trying to take on Google at search just makes me laugh.
And the iphone is pants. Pretty, but pants. I'll stick with my 6310i.
So presumably Apple is evil too. After all they entered the phone market to compete with the others. So that makes Apple evil? I used to work for a guy like this. At the slightest upset all the toys are thrown out of the pram and a major tantrum starts.
(Have to concede though that I think he's right about Adobe. Soooo much potential, but wasted. Flash & acrobat are overweight rotting corpses. Photoshop should've left everything else for dust, but is bearly better than what comes free on the front of monthly magazines.)
Hey, if Steve says it's crap, it must be, everything Apple has ever said and done has been totally above board and not intended to stifle competition right?
It's not like Apple lock you into proprietary standards or force you to use their services exclusively or render your hardware useless if you decide you'd like to use it your own way is it?
Oh, wait, *that* Apple, umm, ignore everything I just said.
Flames of hell to indicate the level of evil...
Oh, as for Dave Hands, I'm, another AC but only because I'm skiving work to write this. Now run Dave, I can hear Steve calling you, he needs his morning fanboi fawning session and you're late.
People thought the iPad would be sexy and exciting, like making love to a Hollywood actress.
Instead it turned out sinister and disturbing, like waking up to find someone's shoved a dirty bog brush through your letterbox in the middle of the night.
I can see why Steve is a bit grouchy. I don't think he even saw the iPad while it was being designed. Like when Homer Simpson's half-brother and president of Powell Motors asked Homer to design his next car, and said he didn't want to see anything until it was finished.
Well that's the iPad. Big, ugly, stupid. Probably has 3 delete keys. You can never find a delete key when you're mad. And Steve is mad 100% of the time if the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley is to be believed.
Maybe he should lay off the drugs.