Personal data belonging to nearly 40 million UK motorists is likely to be abused by foreign officials under new automatic access powers, according to a restricted report. Drivers' details such as name, address, motoring convictions and some medical information will be available to more than two dozen European countries around …
Rise of the Clones!
Expect to see a MASSIVE increase in cloned vehicles then !
Yes, of course. If you're ringing a car in Bratislava, a British registration is exactly what you need to avert all suspicion......
even more easier faster access for mossad agents!
what a stupid comment!
Funny, i didnt realise Israel was in the EU...
But yes, lets be worried about Israeli mossad agents getting access to our databases by somehow first getting access to some foreign EU powers databases. Yes thats really what people should be worried about in this situation...
He's not an idiot, he's very perceptive. If there are 26 countries in the EU, you only need to do a political deal with one of them to get access to the data for all 26. You only need to infiltrate one to get access to all 26.
Israel has it's Israel lobby, the 'Friends of Israel' group, which is actively infiltrating UK politics.
That SWIFT data we're handing to the US, the agreement lets them share that data with Israel, indeed it lets them share that data with anyone! All our internal inter-country transfers are open to view by foreign nations, some of whom are very hostile to us.
Tin foil hat missing?
That your biggest fear is that mossad could get access to your address (and what other minor data the DVLA holds) really speaks volumes about your world view.
Please return to wearing your tin foil hat and leave the rest of us to be concerned about the much greater (and far more realistic) threat to our personal lives from the cyber criminals opertaing from Eastern Europe.
@Tin foil hat
"That your biggest fear is that mossad could get access to your address (and what other minor data the DVLA holds) really speaks volumes about your world view."
So you accept that they can?... You don't seem to be disputing it anymore.
I gave you a link on Dispatches investigation of Israels attempts to control UK politics. They now can have SWIFT data, if a UK politicians have sent any embarrassing payments via SWIFT they are exposed to foreign influence now.
You may be happy for the Mossad boys to run the country, I am not.
@@Tin foil hat
>>"You may be happy for the Mossad boys to run the country, I am not."
If you're going to be paranoid, you might as well assume that any serious foreign intelligence agency already can find out your details from your number plate, etc, assuming there's any reason they would want to do that.
It can't be *that* hard to infiltrate the DVLA/police/whatever.
Any overseas agency that really wanted access but had so far failed to get it wouldn't seem like a massive threat.
"You may be happy for the Mossad boys to run the country, I am not...."If you're going to be paranoid, you might as well assume that any serious foreign intelligence agency already can find out your details from your number plate, etc."
Then why do we share this data if they already have it!? Or is it every *other* nation, except for EU ones that have it??! I do not accept that protecting data is futile, I do not accept that Israel already has high speed data link into the DVLA database, and yet other EU countries do not.
I also don't think the lack of DVLA real time feed means that a foreign power is not a threat. Are the Taliban a threat? Do they have a real time DVLA access? Hence we need to be careful about how data is handled.
Look at how this problem was identified and fixed:
"So you accept that they can?... You don't seem to be disputing it anymore."
THAT is the sentence that marks you out as a conspiracy theorist. It's a giant flag of hilarious, but depressing crackpotism.
The internet has won. Move along, nothing to see here.
The internet has won
"THAT is the sentence that marks you out as a conspiracy theorist. It's a giant flag of hilarious, but depressing crackpotism."
Your talking to an anonymous coward, I have no face to lose. So any attempt to label me a crackpot fails, because there is no 'me'. Only a set of arguments and links to further reading, and none of the authority in that argument stems from me, because I am nobody.
So yes the Internet wins and you lose.
I think it also illustrates why being anonymous is a good thing and worth protecting.
Tinfoil hats forever
>>"Then why do we share this data if they already have it!? Or is it every *other* nation, except for EU ones that have it??! I do not accept that protecting data is futile, I do not accept that Israel already has high speed data link into the DVLA database, and yet other EU countries do not."
Why would Mossad [or insert other Scary Organisation] need a *high-speed* link into the DVLA database?
Do you reckon they're thinking of moving into the car insurance business and want to start poaching customers in bulk?
The point is that *for people who have paranoid worries about Scary Organisations it probably wouldn't take more than lightweight access to facilitate most conceivable Evil Plans, and the paranoid person really should be assuming that such a level of access was already happening anyway if they are to be at all consistent with their level of worry.
After all, if access to DVLA data was in any way important to said Evil Plans, there'd be a very good reason for such access to be desired, and given that for the last howevermany years it really wouldn't be hard to get access via various routes, it would be a strange Scary Organisation that had held back for years/decades in the hope that access would eventually happen by some other route.
Israel doesn't need to be in the EU
As long as the Eurovision exploit remains unpatched.
So, this won't get trawled by some insiders in most of the far-eastern euroland countries, and sold on, resulting in fraud and abuse on a massive scale then?
Oh, it will???
At a bare minimum:
1. Log all access
2. Allow people to register abuse ala TPS
3. Revoke access for those found abusing the system
Although this is kind of closing the gate after the horse has bolted.
Logging all access
Sounds like a good idea, if practicable.
I don't know whether this is a standard thing to do or not. A long time ago I saw an episode of "The Bill" whose plot hinged on access logs. If I remember correctly, even access to the access log was logged, do they could find out not only who had looked up a certain numberplate at a certain time, but who else had wanted to know who had looked up that numberplate.
Welcome to Compliance
There's an app for that, the hot buzz-name is ALM or automated log management, it's a piece of cake to implement and proves undoubtedly that NPIA at the very least should be taken out back at put of their misery before they do more damamge
to be fair
the data would only get left on a train anyway; might as well make it open in the first place.
Lobby the gov/DVLA to AES encrypt the entire database and allow this access to it... just not the decryption key.
...to add another reason toward my consideration of surrendering my licence then!
fuel costs + road tax +idiot drivers + servicing costs + speed cameras + speed bumps + poor roads = fail.
Public transport (when observed) makes this a difficult strategy to implement
This government is kind of like watching a slow motion car crash. You know well in advance it's all going to go titsup and slowly but surely it does but perhaps turns out even worse than you could possibly have imagined.
Roll on the revolution - the bloodier the better!
I was going to update the address on my drivers license, now I may not bother.
"...to add another reason toward my consideration of surrendering my licence then!"
Ah but that's just what they're hoping. Get you to give up your personal transport so you are easier to keep tabs on. And claim it's all to the good because you're polluting less, well done.
Thank you all for voting labour.
I would just like to thank the Euro-lovers and other assorted morons who allowed Labour in for this last term.
Yes, I know all the parties are corrupt, self-serving liars but at least stopping this shower of shit getting into power may have resulted in a slightly slower descent towards our being sold to the highest bidder as we now have been.
Anyone else remember the days when we pitied the poor Eastern Europeans toiling away so their communist masters could holiday with their rich friends?
The funny thing is that I remember reading about this long ago. ISTR that it was in fact Labour who were twisting the arms of other countries to implement this.
As well as giving our information to others, it also allowed them to collect even more records; those of everyone in other countries. They did say that this was only being done to combat serious, organised crime and terrorism though. (Such as banks in cold countries and people going to school more than 100 yards from where they live ?)
I feel so much safer
"including former Eastern bloc states such as Bulgaria, where official corruption is widespread" - And this is different to UK agencies HOW?
Is this something to do with Mandleson?
Whenever I see some EU-based crapness based around security and other bollocks its usually Sir Hiss who's got his fingers on it.
Massive fail and we can't even vote him out now.
The image that accompanies this article appears to bear a protective marking of RESTRICTED, although you can't really tell for sure because it's cropped.
I'm pretty sure that you're not supposed to publish protectively marked material on the web for all and sundry to see!
Trying telling the guys who wrote the rules that!!
Let's face it, giving this data away free to Bulgarian traffic wardens presents a far higher risk than flogging it en masse to the shady cowboys of the private clamping industry.
Who's more likely to want to misuse this data. Someone in Sofia or two dodgy blokes with a record for petty theft and their own tow truck in Essex?
Odd that. Pass a piece of legislation obliging the DVLA to share its data with authorised authorities and they're up in arms about the security risks, but offer them the chance to make a few quid on the side and it's a very different story.
If you ever needed a cast-iron proof that this mob are as bent as a nine-bob note, this is it.
Data protection principles
* Fairly and lawfully processed
* Processed for limited purposes
* Adequate, relevant and not excessive
* Accurate and up to date
* Not kept for longer than is necessary
* Processed in line with your rights
* Not transferred to other countries without adequate protection
2,7 and 8 fucked then.
With any luck some entrepreneurial rich-type could try taking the governement to court for breaching it's own DPA when they signed the Euro-crap, sadly anyone with that much money probably doesn't want to
Waaaaaay too late
If the ICO had any teeth they would have shut that shop a long time ago. I think item 1 and 6 are voided too. You've never been asked during the time of collection if you consented to the global distribution of this information and even if they did, this is a change of scope so they'd have to ask again. With respect to your rights, it violates the privacy directive of the Human Rights act.
I must admit I'm puzzled. How come the whole nation rose to get cheaper petrol prices, yet can't be arsed to strike for their human rights? As far as I can tell, the country should be on hold, with 90% or more marching towards Whitehall, ready to run a repeat of Guy Fawkes if the current lot doesn't go asap. An election ought to be almost superfluous.
@Waaaaaay too late
>>"I must admit I'm puzzled. How come the whole nation rose to get cheaper petrol prices, yet can't be arsed to strike for their human rights?"
That's an easy one.
'The whole nation' did nothing of the sort.
In fact, it was down to a fairly small number of people taking industrial action in a way that many of the more vocal supporters would have whined loudly and/or sneered about if it had happened in France.
Yet one more reason not to put so much data in databases
Because everybody with access is fully trustable, of course. They've all been vetted by their respective governments, of course. Yes, sir, we guarantee you that we are very careful. Except when we accidentally mail all the data in the clear or lose it on the commuter train or something. Don't worry, everything is perfectly fine. Nothing to see here, move along now.
As so many have already found out, once the information is out in the open, you can't get it out of the open. As Streisand, ask Julius Baer, ask almost anyone. The protection is gone, forever. But that's fine, because if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Obviously. So what are you afraid of? What do you have to hide, hm?
Under the data protection act, am I not allowed to write to the DVLA and request that I don't wish for my personal data to be stored in their database?
Assuming you aren't just trolling you are aware the penalty for failing to update the address on your drivers license is a fine of up to £1000?
Not to mention that should you be stopped by the filth you may well have trouble proving your eligibility to legally drive should plod ask you to provide such - especially if your license is a non-photographic one. You could well have your car seized temporarily because of this.
Although I suspect you are just frothing to try to prove some point here I would recommend you (and anyone similarly tempted to not update their address) do tell DVLA your new address.
You may be correct, however; I was stopped by the fuzz a couple of months ago and given a fixed penalty notice for no MOT (3 weeks late, oops). The copper asked if the address on my license was current, I said no, and gave my current address for the purposes of writing up my fixed penalty notice. He did not otherwise comment on the out of date address, suggest that I update it, or mention any penalty should I fail to do so. I'm surprised that a bored cop who is actively looking for people to bust, would pass up the opportunity to make my day worse.
I also can't immediately see such a penalty on the DVLA website; all it says under "Keeping your details correct" is "Telling DVLA your details have changed will ensure your record is up to date and all future driving licence reminders are sent to your correct address." Under obligations, it says you must inform them of change of name or address, but it doesn't mention a penalty. Maybe it's you that's frothing?
This is not exactly true. If you move to another country (I live in Sweden) your UK license is still valid as long as it is valid in your home country. However the DVLA do not allow you to update the address to an address outside of the UK. I have a written reply from the DVLA stating that in the case that you move to another EU country it is accepted that the address on your license will be incorrect.
I also use my UK license (with the incorrect address) to rent a hire car each time I travel back to UK. I explain the situation to them and they just ask me to write down my actual address, no fuss or suggestion that anything is wrong.
@ tony72 @ lee
Last I heard it was a £60 fine, although I'm sure you could use your "I wasn't written up for it once so it isn't an offence" argument in court, and get it upped to £400.
No such thing as 'unreasonable cause' anyway
It's no different from the current situation.
The law says you can buy an address for £2.50 if you have 'reasonable cause'.
The DVLA's attitude is that anyone who is willing to pay £2.50 MUST have reasonable cause. You can put what you like in the reasons box (and that's all it is - no evidence required) and the DVLA will happily flog you anyone's address.
Great if you've seen a nice sports car driven by an older person who looks easy burgle.
Also nice if you're a private parking company. Give out a fake, unenforceable parking ticket, send out threatening letters and wait for the cheques to come back.
What is the problem?
If you can't trust the governments of the world who can you trust?
Hehe, you get whatever Xmas you deserve
The protection to the data for this is accidentally regulated by Shengen which. In order to join Shengen all countries participating have to have not only the information, but the safeguards on it which are by the way fairly stringent (german privacy legislation style).
For all these countries any Prun requests as a result of the way their legislation and process is set up go down the shengen channel and are logged, policed and limited.
It is the odd ones which try to do "pick and mix" international law participation which get the unfetterered access problem. With Britain being the biggest pix-n-mixer of all...
Does it not make any difference that the UK is not party to the Schengen agreement?
Why is it that every time I turn around people are trying to find new ways to share every bit of data, but not protect people from those who can abuse it?
Seriously - people LIE. They will smile to your face and take everything they can when your back is turned. There is no 'good chap' mentality. People aren't 'sound'. They are criminal and sneaky, and it's a dog-eat-dog world.
The people who tend to make these deals or make these agreements really don't understand that we have it nice in this country, when compared to others. So many of the British are polite or upstanding (despite what the panic-mongering media will tell you) and these people just don't understand that in so many other places the simple principle is 'screw everyone if you possibly can'.
If this data is any use
Then people already have it.
Every "secure database" is wide open to the contractors who work on it.
If I were a foreign power trying to get these details, I would have already had them in a far easier to access format than DVLA are offering.
(I would probably also have been paid for 3 weeks work by DVLA into the bargain)
DVLA are not giving anything away that hasn't already been taken
So they say a gatekeeper is 'not practical'? Why not? Given that the access can ONLY be for "serious crime, terrorism and illegal immigration" investigations (and so we're not talking thousands a day here) then it's totally practicable to route all enquiries via an appropriate office in the Met.
Continental Europe has always been attracted to authoritarian regimes throughout its history. This is true regardless of whether a given regime is democratically elected, as it is cultural and reflected in the EU Charter. The idea that you should have aspects of your life private is anathema to the EU. Get used to it.
Once, total comprehension fail seems to behind this implementation of a fairly simple principal.
The purpose of this access is to allow EU authorities to enforce traffic violations EU wide. Fine. Seems reasonable
Instead of just giving world + dog access to the database electronically, why not just allow member states to issue violation notices electronically, to be forwarded electronically to the relevant EU members nation for enforcement via their (still private and therefore more secure) national registration database?
As the meerkat says... "Simples"
... Which is why government will NEVER do it that way: obvious and simple != government policy
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