Mozilla director of community development Asa Dotzler - co-founder of the original Firefox project - has encouraged Firefox users to switch their search engine from Google to Microsoft Bing in the wake of Eric Schmidt's now infamous words on net privacy. In an interview aired by CNBC on Sunday, the Google boss insisted that …
Why stop at the search engine, support Microsoft all the way, use IE.
Are you nuts ?
I'm just trying to quit MS entirely and now you're pushing me back? Like MS is in desperate need of support.
oh come on
the first post was very funny :)
Awwww, Microsoft, that last bastion of freedom
Mine's the one with a post-it that says "LOL" in the pocket.
Looks like things are hotting up in the biggest divorce since Nicole left Tom. It's not even a week since they announced they want to start developing a proper email client based on Thunderbird - much to Google's indifference at this stage, I would imagine. Maybe five years ago, but not now.
This is nothing to do with privacy laws, anyone can see that. Switching from one US search provider to another accomplishes what exactly, other than a poorer quality search?
Mozilla are starting to panic that their sugardaddy is going off them - they're rally scared - so, knowing they don't have a business model that can ever allow them to stand on their own two feet, they're now looking for a new pimp. The fact that they're having to dance with MS really highlights how in the shit they are, long term. No doubt MS are going to pay handsomely for this, after all it means the two biggest browsers are both pushing users toward its search engine and making it money and good PR, but it also means that as soon as 90% of Mozilla's income comes from MS rather than Google, they become MS's bitch and start doing what they're told to do. Come on - seriously - would you rather be Google's bitch or MS's? They must be in a terrible state to want to make the leap from the frying pan to the fire.
This is nothing to do with privacy - do you seriously think MS are safer in that regard than Google or not subject to the same laws or get the same calls from the same agencies? - it's all about shifting strategic partnerships to make mozney. The problem is that both Google and MS are huge corporations who speak each other's language more than they speak Mozilla's. You might like Firefox, but the truth is that it could disappear tomorrow and the Web would continue just fine, thank you very much. Mozilla is now officially a pawn - and has been pwned. They're also frightened, quite understandably.
Note to The Reg®: There's no icon of Malcolm Tucker to attach to this article about Asa Dotzler.
"a proper email client based on Thunderbird "
Thunderbird IS a proper email client.
Is Schmidt serious?
At least Google is *UP FRONT* about how they log everything, and the implications of doing stupid /illegal stuff while browsing - and you can see what they've got in your Google account page.
While it came across badly, the Google guy is correct. If you do something bad on the internet, there are plenty of ways you'll get logged. Tor, shell accounts, next-door's wireless, anonymous proxies are some tools in hiding that, but don't expect any browsing to be completely private.
I use Google, I know that they track my searches, I know that they use it to "tailor" my experience. I have no problems with that - I know that they are doing it.
Do we know how Microsoft track us? We know that their O/S report home about things without telling us, we know that results on Bing can be influenced by money and we know that Bing is using Silverlight which sort of really locks out certain portions of the internet "population".
I know who I'd rather use for search....
It's all voluntary
I think what people seem to be forgetting, that apart from laws like the Patriot Act or the DMCA, everything that people do online is voluntary. When you go to Google and sign up for their services, you are agreeing that they can hold on to your data. When you make a website and want (or don't want) it to be searched by a search engine, you use (or don't use) a robots.txt file to tell the engine what to do. All this is up to you. No one is pointing a gun to your head and telling you to do as they say or die. That's what the law is for. If you want absolute privacy, then you may as well shut yourself away from everyone and everything, because when you go outside of your house, or on to the Internet, you are trading your privacy for interaction with others and services provided by others. Seriously people, get a grip on reality would you?
When you go to Google and *DON'T* sign up for their services (I won't do so as I'm not bloody fucking likely to *agree* with them holding on to my data), they still hold on to your data.
omg... People really think like this?
So not only are the goverments and companies acting like big brother, people are now starting to act like Winston Smith 's fellow citizens...
I do nothing illegal - it doesn't mean I don't care about my privacy...
As the old addage goes '1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a prediction'
I don't volunteer to have privacy disclosed
"everything that people do online is voluntary. When you go to Google and sign up for their services, you are agreeing that they can hold on to your data."
Actually, you don't. You don't have an actual contract when you just go to Google and use the search engine - you're never asked to sign up, nor are you informed you have just engaged in a contractual relationship.
This means that existing laws remain valid, and as far as I know most countries have signed up to Human Rights. As for using OTHER Google services you're 100% right, nobody seems to know Clause 11 in their ToS..
but the rules keep changing
The problem with the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" attitude is this:
Maybe you have nothing to hide now, so you have no fear of your habits online or offline being logged and stored away somewhere. You're safe.
Now fast forward a decade, after we've continued down the slippery slope even further, and imagine that some innocent activity you enjoy is now considered to be a "threat" (UK-based photographers are familiar with this issue already, now that their hobby/profession has become something which "arouses suspicion").
Conveniently, your last 10+ years of searches and browsing related to the newly proscribed activity are all ready and waiting for the authorities to trawl through. Please present yourself to your local Ministry of Freedom offices immediately for Thought Realignment.
This article is strange since I downloaded FF last night and the Default search engine when I started it up was BING.
If you have only just installed firefox, presumably on a windows machine - did you import settings from IE? if so that would explain why bing is your default. I installed firefox yesterday for my dad and it is still google as default.
I already had long ago changed the IE default search to Google.
I just keep Firefox as a backup but use Safari as my default browser.
The Chinese government certainly appreciated Google's help with information collection.
Point of principle...
...It's my observation that generally, when people make a point of "principle", there's usually a hefty wad of boolah lurking unclaimed in the background somewhere.
So where's Mozilla's? Have they signed up a new contract with their rival?
@It's all voluntary
What you seem to be forgetting is that significant pieces of google's behavioral data collection is acquired entirely outside of google's voluntary services.
Unless one knows about and specifically blocks all of google's domains, there is are plenty more avenues for google to track people online. If it was just google's search engine then this would be a non-issue.
I want context
I find it incredibly convenient that CNBC narrates over the 10 seconds before the "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know..." bit. Where's the context?
If he's talking about secrets from your wife/family/friend then you're right.
If on the other hand he's talking about the government, they couldn't give a toss that you like whips and chains/are having an affair/think your boss is a wanker
End this sensationalist crap and give us some context!
All sing along...
"My search engine is less evil than your one/
My search engine is less evil than yours/
Mine's less evil 'cause its less evil/
Mine's less evil than yours."
@all sing along
I don't recognize the tune that this lyrical gem scans to, please help me out.
I'm sorry I haven't a clue.
It kinda scans :X
Tune was from the Ken-L Ration commercials in the middle - later part of last century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken-L_Ration
How soon they forget
Microsoft doesn't exactly have a great track record on privacy. If you want to make a statement, do something less stupid than using Bing.
Just use Scroogle
Firefox user horrified by Google's privacy? Search with Google via Scroogle:
You beat me to it.
Schmidt has nothing to hide...
Please someone post his address, personal email address(es), phone number(s), Social Security number, bank account details, driving license number...
If I need to visit a confidential help-site for a terminal illness, I don't see why I should have to worry that Google has spotted it through the hidden Java trackers in almost all web pages, and will sell the information to advertisers to target me with cheap funeral services, thanks.
That's prety dumb
Google doesn't have your Social Security number, bank account details or driving license number - please try to keep the hyperbole under control.
Plenty of that going on
When it comes to privacy people love to make those exaggerations. In one of the posts above somebody wrote something about how 1984 was supposed be warning not a prediction- because we all know that Orwell had Google in mind when he wrote 1984.
"Big brother" must be one of the most misused terms in the history of English language. I think people should read something about Stalin's Soviet Union before even thinking of using it.
Did someone not read the previous articles?
This isn't about iGoogle knowing what you did last Summer, it's about Google knowing what you are doing, all the time even if you don't have or aren't signed in to a Google account.
As for Google being the best search engine in the world.. even if it is.. it's not for your benefit and the sooner it admits to being Craigslist the better.
You got it in one.
I could put up with Google were is not for their pretence at being a bunch of lovely, cuddly, touchy feelly hippies. They are in the game to make as much money as possible and they have been since day one. They really don't care who or what they trample on in the realisation of that goal.
In terms of moral bankruptcy I put Google firmly in the same class as Phorm. The difference for most people is that the media portayed Phorm as evil from day one, it's really only since Streetview launched that the popular media have started to portay Google as anything less than angelic. And what do you suppose all this recent pandering to the news content providers is about? PR, plain and simple. If they don't at least throw a bone to the press pack then they are going to start getting negative press. If they play nice with the press then they will still print nice stories about them.
You have none, The only reason I use Firefox is because of no script. I use Google because I get relevant search results. I use Win 7 for touch screen surfing, 3D rendering, Photoshop and games. I use Ubuntu for online banking and shopping.
When or if I ever become a sexual deviant style terrorist murderer I will do it old style, cash, unregistered phones, face to face, obfuscation, misdirection, and outright lies, rather like the politicians.
If you're active in civil rights and stuff
If you're active in civil rights, gay rights, sexual health, abortion, contraception, organized labor, someone's political campaign, then invididuals working in government or law enforcement may want to know about what you read and transmit on the Internet, and you may want not to have them know, without crimes being committed on YOUR side. Depending on what is counted as a crime where you are.
Its not just the search
I daresay Microsoft also do a reasonable amount of massaging with every client that sucks at its search engines teats, but even if this is half right...
theres a shed load of background churn with Google.
Just a rant
That's all it is. Just a rant. But it's a big rant, and I think it represents feelings of the public at large - at least those who are in the know.
Got something to hide? What about Google's ranking algorithm? Maybe they shouldn't be doing that. Or otherwise, how about publishing it, Google?
Google are one of the worst copyright offenders out there. In addition to scraping content from websites and using that content next to adverts, they publish orphaned books illegally, using money to support lawyers so they don't get done for it. People are slowly becoming wise to it, and are fed up with it, especially content providers.
The Enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Just keep them in front of you at all times lest they do something to your back.
So google/bing/yahoo/whoever want to keep records of your searches?
Give them some records to keep... http://mrl.nyu.edu/~dhowe/trackmenot/
TrackMeNot runs in Firefox as a low-priority background process that periodically issues randomized search-queries to popular search engines, e.g., AOL, Yahoo!, Google, and MSN. It hides users' actual search trails in a cloud of 'ghost' queries, significantly increasing the difficulty of aggregating such data into accurate or identifying user profiles.
So, the best it can do is throw out a pre-determined set (however large) of queries in the background while you have FireFox up and running.
How long until this get politicized? When will it start throwing out queries for certain "questionable" activities in a "stand up for your rights" manner? Or is it doing it already, and forgot to tell anyone?
Isn't it obvious that this is the case? If you really think you're anonymous on the web and that every search engine, isp, etc doesn't do exactly the same then you're in lala land.
"If you don't want someone to know what you're doing, then don't do it" is not a statement that your privacy doesn't matter, it is simply good advice.
Stop spouting (and spreading) sensationalist crap!
... can we expect a Mozilla created Search Engine in the future ?
On the comparison that Microsoft is no better than Google when it comes to corporate behaviour and putting themselves before their customer's ( the public's ) interests; probably about right but I'm actually more suspicious of Google than Microsoft as advertising is Google's sole revenue stream.
Google's cavalier attitude - while trying to maintain its public "do no evil" stance - is becoming increasingly suspect. Google seems to seek 'world domination' as much as Microsoft, and I suspect more so.
We really need an 'Evil Google' icon.
Personally I find it much more satisfying to use Scroogle (also easily plugged into Firefox).
I get to use Google's search engine, but THEY don't get my data.
Ixquick supposedly protects your privacy.
You can use the Firefox Ixquick serch engine add-on, besides BetterPrivacy, CookieCuller, AdBlock, CustomizeGoogle, NoScript (urchin.js) etc ...and despising GOOG just like the Departamentul Securităţii Statului, the Ministerium für Staatssicherheit and all their modern-day incarnations. Respect for the right to privacy, support the Pirates.
Following the 9/11 event in the US, Europe has allowed itself to be swept along in a panic reaction to try to end all evil by increasing the level of surveillance and control over the entire population. We Europeans should know better. It is not twenty years since the fall of the Berlin Wall, and there are plenty of other horrific examples of surveillance-gone-wrong in Europe's modern history.
The arguments for each step on the road to the surveillance state may sound ever so convincing. But we Europeans know from experience where that road leads, and it is not somewhere we want to go.
We must pull the emergency brake on the runaway train towards a society we do not want. Terrorists may attack the open society, but only governments can abolish it. The Pirate Party wants to prevent that from happening. http://www.piratpartiet.se/documents/Principles%203.2.odt
If you could state your case without all the party politics around it you may get more people intested.
Fact: privacy is a right
Fact: governments like to listen in (various arguments)
Fact: companies like to listen in to make money
Ergo: it's up to you to protect yourself, you're not going to get help from your government unless you live in, umm, Switzerland or Japan.
As Pirate party we can help, but we have the problem of being associated with piracy through our name. Piracy isn't as bad as the RIAA wants us to believe, but fact remains that it is a crime.
There, fixed that for you. Now go and change your name, and learn to write pieces that don't sound as if they come from sandal wearing long haired hippies with a severe pharmaceutical problem.
Thanks for your advice, but I'll leave that writing business to others. "Nothing but the whirl of words could grasp my condition,"
...the fact that Netscape sat on their collective arses doing a complete rewrite while MS forged ahead with IE, warts and all. Not a smart move. Being in the market with an ugly app is better than being in the shed polishing a beautiful one forever.
Nice post, great humour for a Friday afternoon.
The idea that IE is/was better than, well, anything, really, is laughable. Go read up on Microsoft history.
- Boffins attempt to prove the UNIVERSE IS JUST A HOLOGRAM
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