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back to article Apple responds to Nokia lawsuit, in kind

Apple has filed a countersuit to Nokia's, alleging that Nokia is infringing its patents rather than the other way round. In the suit, as reported by All Things Digital, Apple claims Nokia is infringing 13 of Apple's patents. Nokia is only claiming the iPhone infringes 10 - but the number of patents isn't important here, what …

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Coffee/keyboard

nokia should play nice

especially when they admitted openly that they're not afraid to copy good ideas (iPhone).

it's a give and take game.

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Linux

My money's on the Finns

So without Nokia's patents, phones don't work, but without Apple's, they just don't look nice.

Hmm, I wonder which are more valuable.

Tux, for his Finnish relations

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Grenade

A mixed bag

One of the patents is on GMSK. I need to read it, but if it is found to cover it reasonably well Nokia will have to pay for GSM phones it produced long before the iPhone came to be. That _WILL_ _HURT_. There are a few others which are quite interesting as well. And some trash that is relevant to the way Nokia runs Nokia firmware updates, etc, but not really key.

This will be fun to watch.

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naaaa

of course, Nokia have violate a patent isued in the last 3 years for the last 10 year.

Even in an American patent court, the patent will be declared invalid, as you can not patent existing technology already in use or patented by a third party.

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WTF?

troll patent?

maybe you can patent the process of patent trolling?

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Heart

Patenting patent trolling

Halliburton are trying.

See US Patent Application No. 20080270152

and http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/10/halliburton_patent/

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Silver badge
Joke

Nah

Too much prior art on slashdot

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Anonymous Coward

Never saw that one coming...

About as bleeding obvious as the majority of US software patents.

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silly

Apple did not create the chipset in the device, nor design the firmware and unerlying protocols the device is using, they simply wrote an OS to utilize the stull legally licenced to Samsung (or whoever makes the chip) and they're licensed to sell those chips to anyone. None of nokia's pattents impact software design, only chiptests, and underlying hardware. Apple is the wrong target, and the right one has an existing license.

Now, since nokia played hardball, Apple will swing the bat and knock out some of the few teeth they have left and pocket a nice wad of cash for themselves and their layers, knowck out a few nokia patents, and make more of telephone open source than it was before.

This case is a win-win for consumers, regardless of who's lawyers make more money.

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Apple FUD

Nokia have been trying to get Apple to to pay for the IP they use for years, the court case is just the last phase.

Its doubtfull that Apple has any Telecoms patents that Nokia could infringe that really just leaves media and touch screen. On the touch screen, I think Nokia's first tablet the 770 was out before the iPhone and they might have had something even earlier so if anything Nokia have prior art there. Only one Nokia phone has a capacitative touch screen and non are multi touch. So no likelyhood on that front.

That leaves media, Apple could have some catch all patents that cover music and video on a mobile device, but from my perspective something that vague should be unpatentable. My guess is that the patents probably relate to selling music and apps direct to the phone. I.E. they are going after OVI in the hope that Nokia is going to throw good money after bad to protect it. They have a habit of overspending on internet related compaines in the hope it will get them into the internet services big time.

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FAIL

@Nokia FUD

"Its doubtfull that Apple has any Telecoms patents that Nokia could infringe that really just leaves media and touch screen. On the touch screen, I think Nokia's first tablet the 770 was out before the iPhone and they might have had something even earlier so if anything Nokia have prior art there. Only one Nokia phone has a capacitative touch screen and non are multi touch. So no likelyhood on that front."

Not a phone - but I have one word to say: "Newton"

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Flame

Read the filings before speaking noncense

Apparently Apple has managed to ambush ALL phone makers. It has a patent on GMSK. Nothing gets more telecom relevant than that. Without it you cannot produce a working GSM phone radio.

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h 6
Thumb Up

ding!

Bring it!

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Teacup, meet Storm...Storm, meet Teacup

Roughly Drafted has an interesting take on the issue:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/12/11/the-real-patent-story-behind-apple-vs-nokia/

=:~)

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Silver badge
Pint

Interesting

"Roughly Drafted has an interesting take on the issue"

I am sure there must exist a value of "interesting" for which this sentence is true; I, however, failed to find it. The argument seems to be that as Nokia licensed its technology (for a fee) to every single handset maker, they are not entitled to royalties from Apple, while as Apple keeps its tech for itself (mainly because there's nothing technologically new to license in their patents to begin with), they can ask for billions? Oh, I can see what you mean by "interesting" now...

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FAIL

Try reading the article

You obviously missed this part:

..."After Nokia committed its ten patents to various mobile and WiFi standards, it attempted to discriminate its licensing terms against Apple. Due to the success of the iPhone, Nokia wanted more money from Apple then it gets from other licensees, and also wanted open access to Apple’s private portfolio of technology used in the iPhone."

To anyone else with a reading comprehension above that of an embryo, this would imply that Nokia are trying to charge Apple more for use of their patents than other companies. It also suggests that the Apple patents that Nokia are alleged to have infringed are not those that are part of the "patent pool".

As Mark Twain once said, "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

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Flame

If that is the case they are in deep sh*t

Their licenses on intellectual property held by other members of 3GPP are conditional on non-discriminatory licensing of their own property. Nokia just screwed all of their gains against qualcom here and that will hurt way more than the Apple (even if apple indeed owns the key patent to all modern GSM radios which it claims to).

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Flame

Somehow

I think Nokia who was one of the first cell phone companies should have a bit more on patents than a start late like Apple and, well, touch screen, I suppose is older than Apple too.

But all of this reminds me of Jonathan Swift and the old lady who had five cows and the crooks stole three of them and the lawyers stole the remaining two cows.

What a wonderful opportunity this patent business is for all the patents scum and patent scum layers .

Of corse there a layers who are no part of this. Surprising however how big companies want to carry on with this fattening of patent layers.

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Happy

@kam

I think you have forgotten who said it is all about copying. That was Apple, in fact.

We have been, fortunately, copying through human history and that is good and without that I just wonder if we could write or speak.

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Silver badge

Go Finns go!

So Nokia has 10 hardware patents that everyone but Apple agreed to pay royalties for. Apple has 13 -probable- software or firmware patents maybe that are irrelevant to any phone other than their own and for which you could probably find prior art by the metric ton without even really trying. Hmmm, tricky one... but this will be decided in the US, so as mentionned in the article the validity or the range of the patents will hardly play any role at all.

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Unhappy

sorry

I had some beer too many and my spell checker got drunk or something.

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Troll

Apple-come-lately

OK now I agree the iPhone seems a leap in usability and a great synthesis of technologies, but I get the impression that Nokia have to a far greater degree pioneered the development of mobile phones, and every other slum-dwelling joe can use one as a result. They're bloody well-engineered, due to the Finns' investment of gazillions over aeons.

Whereas to an extent Apple are a purveyor of pricey bling. OK, so as a mobile computing tool, the iPhone does seem excellent, but, if Nokia say a piece of intellectual property is theirs, I get the sense it probably is. They played a huge part in building the landscape upon which the iPhone's success is now possible, and the world owes them quite frankly - Apple likely being no exception.

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@Chas

Never take anything that roughlydrafted says seriously. They are more than willing to lie and talk as if they have some sort of extra knowledge of the situation just to big up Apple. Try posting a comment that presents some sort of information that contradicts what they say. Even if its the truth they won't post it.

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Megaphone

Such a waste

I wonder just how much money will be spent on legal fees, money that could have been put towards something positive and productive like R&D or improving customer service.

The ridiculous patent system stunts technological progress. I'm all for protecting your investments but patents should not be allowed to last for more than five years.

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FAIL

Utterly pointless....

Oh the joy of patent lawyers....money and time not well spent...

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WTF?

Logic and common sense mean nothing

All the above arguments are meaningless - facts, logic and common sense have no place in patent cases. Bizarre legal voodoo like the Chewbacca defense are what wins cases in the US.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense)

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