A grassroots fanboi site has sprung up to document what would appear to be widespread hardware problems with Apple's latest iMac desktops. In recent weeks, iMac buyers have complained of cracked screens, flickering displays, and even machines that turned up dead on arrival. Scott Pronych - a web designer based in Bedford, Nova …
Wow, that's an INCREDIBLY impressive failure rate considering the millions they sell a quarter!
Well done Apple!
You Register "journalists" need to get out more. Seriously.
How long are you going to use this braindead "fanboi" moniker for?
It is puerile and makes you look truly pathetic.
Will you still be using it when Apple market share reaches 20%?
You are an embarrassment.
Fishing for fanbois is *really* easy.
Oh, and 280 dead Macs out of a specific model is a bit more significant than 280 products out of everything they sell, which was never the claim. Muppet.
as to where you get the "millions they sell a quarter" figure for the "machines offering Intel's quad-core i7 chip and a 27-inch display. Notably, these are build-to-order models only available on the web"
I would have thought If they sold "Millions per Quarter" they would not be "Build To Order"
However well done for taking the bait good to know that the moniker is still justified. plenty more fanboi fishing to be had!
Is fanboi in season now?
Does fanboi fishing ever go out of season?
Are we allowed to livebait for fanboi or do we even need to?
Do we have to catch and release or can we keep them squirming on the hook?
Paris, old trout...
It Just Works.....
Time to change your slogan Apple.
Did I ever say that before ? ;)
Seriously, though... someone should into the stats. As much as I much malign the iMac, I suspect there is a good chance your average other manufacturer is likely to have comparatively similar fault rates.
Nevertheless, I still believe this of the iMac : all the disadvantages of a desktop and a laptop rolled into one, with NONE of the advantages...
..but they are shiny. And expensive.
Shiny and expensive with an Apple logo on them.
It doesn't matter if they are shit.
OK, so 280 Faulty iMacs have been delivered. But:
- How many of these were damaged in transit ? (Cracked screens could be due to either poor manufacturing, or poor handling in transit.)
- How many non-faulty iMacs have been shipped ?
- How do these numbers/percentages compare to other manufacturers ?
A bare number on it's own means nothing. Give it some context.
all in the bottom left of the screen ??
If it is a handling issue, then having consistent damage location would indicate bad packaging design, not necessarily a bad product design.
Not enough styrofoam in one corner, combined with increased drops caused by the large package size of the 27" iMacs, could easily cause consistent handling damage.
I have no idea if that's the case, but don't be so quick to dismiss. Apple needs to hire good packaging designers just like it needs to hire good hardware/software designers.
All damaged on the bottom left?
Actually, no, 42, if you had RTFA. 42 out of 280 were damaged on the bottom left... That's less than 25% by my count... In fact, 42 out of 58 with a cracked screen were damaged on the bottom left, but that's still not an outragous number considdering no details of PAGACKE damage were given or the the condition the box arrived in, and this although not out of millions, is still out of tens of thousands of units shipped.
I've worked in corporate and residentail IT areanas both, and have had more than 5,000 machines shipped though my shops or offices. The average DOA rate (at least 1 part damaged or non-functional if not the whole machine) is north of 5%. 90% of those are due to shipping mishandling.
This is a thin, 27" machine inslide a box designed to protect it from blunt impacts, but not necessarily tortion forces. The box is clearly lables as "ship this sice up" with the sice up being the handle at the top of the skinny end. However, in shipment I've seen these things lying across uneven box tops with other boxes on top, putting pressure and torques on parts of the packaging never designed to withstand.
Do not blame a manufacturer being hounded by greenpeace and varios other agenceis to minimize packaging for the failure of the carrier to follow handling instructions.
When you have numbers on how many PRISTINE packages arrive with damaged machines inside, and those numbers for Apple exceed those for others by vast and measurable limts, then you let me know. instead, lets start asking how much this is costing UPS, because it costs Apple nothing...
I work for a Apple Service provider as a tech and I'm loving this. We have had several in and it means I'm going to keep my job :-D
Won't get fired before xmas, Joy!
Seeing as they also use the term fanboi to describe rabid fans of other brands I guess they probably will be using it if Apple's market share ever reaches 20%. But well done on marking yourself out as a fanboi by your immediate assumption that it must be a term for describing only rabid Apple fans.
This, folks, is a lovely example of "irony".
(Cue accusations of me being a braindead MS fanboi, no doubt - personally I think the Spectrum sucks, C64 roolz, noobz!)
C64?! Don't make me laugh
What's wrong with the Spectrum?
128 BASIC had the best keywork of all times!
PCs should have that.
Start Vista, command line, type "COMPUTER" and it restarts the computer putting it into 16bit mode with DOS 6.22.
The Opus drive with it's lovely FORMAT "m" ;j; 1 to get your joystick stuck in the side of it working?! Awesome!
At least the spectrum could do a half decent high-res screen, with a little bleed I'll grant you, not like the puke inducing, block-fest that C64 did!
Don't you Amstrad CPC people start either! High-res on CPC was 2 colour, so you can shush!
You can keep your speccys and C=64s, I had a Memotech MTX 512 :P
To quote the ad - "The future's not black, it's anodised"
"At least the spectrum could do a half decent high-res screen, with a little bleed I'll grant you, not like the puke inducing, block-fest that C64 did!"
Oh yes, awesome 256x192 goodness, unlike Commodore's puny 320x200 resolution. Not to mention crappy sound processing on Spectrum, compared to C64. Spectrum was always destined to be a dishwasher programmer, hence the rubber keyboard. :-P
Me, I still have my C64 with its humongous 170 kB VIC-1541 disk drive. There is just no other way to play Elite. :-)
Ha! Until a recent clean-out (my Mum pointed out that I'd left home 15 years ago so the sh!t in the attic was going into a skip) I had an Oric-1 and an Atmos. Both had better keyboards than a Mac ;)
"Nevertheless, I still believe this of the iMac : all the disadvantages of a desktop and a laptop rolled into one, with NONE of the advantages..."
And the fact it's still worth something after 3 years - flog it and buy a new one. No need to upgrade.
Dream on "Toaster" (see Battlstar Galactica)
there will be sooooo many being dumped after people have got over their shiny kit syndrome it will fetch about the same as a toaster.
Roll on Apple selling more as the second hand market in them will become more realistic - as will the prices paid. Just look at the likes of BMW and Mercedes; they were wirth a few quid until the chav salesmongers got them bought for them as company cars and the second hand value collapsed.
@ty - more reliability data
not 280 , 17.4 per cent
I'm gunna buy me one
of the i7 27" ones, but in April sometime, so hopefully they've got it all sorted by then.
Hey, you could almost say.... 'It just works!!!!!!!!!'
Get it? 'It just works!!!!!!!'
You see what I did?!!! I used the Apple slogan, but in an ironic capacity. ROFL.
Is that Sarcasm
OK, I'll bite...
"Where do you want to go today?"
Down to PC World to have my Windows reloaded at a cost of £254 ( geuine cost BTW! )
Down to PC World to buy me some pukka Anti-virus software!
Down to PC World to buy me some pukka Anti-spyware software!
Down to PC World to buy me some pukka Anti-malware software!
Down to PC World to buy me a copy of the only Windows worth bothering with, the venerable 8 year old O/S, Windows XP? Oh no, I can't, 'cos MS don't care enough to bother fixing something that did genuinely work, they rehashed Vista instead!
Down to PC World to buy me a new HD, 'cos WIndows thrashed the life out of mine with it's pitiful VM management!
( I have loads of these BTW! )
See what I did there, I took a slogan and used it against those who use it, thus making myself look a prat too!
Only a Clueless Luzer.
Or an Apple Fanboi would
Pay £254 for the monkeys at PC World to reload an OS, seriously, WTF? Are you really that stupid that you can't work out how to boot off a CD?
Oh, sorry,yeah, I forgot, you've got a Mac, ergo, you have more money than sense.
I think you will find that its not 280 out of all these machines sold by apple its 280 out of all the machines whose users have then found this one particular site to register theirs as crocked. Given that I would suspect that the real number is a lot higher.
On top of that lots of them breaking in the same way in the same place is about as conclusive evidence as you might need for some sort of design flaw.
titular *some simile I can't think of at the mo, ta*
If you RTFA, you will find that the data is scraped from Apples support forums too...
We interrupt these comments to bring you important news about a new computer that's allegedly Dee Oh A.
Our on the spot reporter Henry Bell is at the scene, "Henry, do we know if this is an Apple computer yet?"
"Not yet, the police have cordoned off the scene, we're expecting word any moment though, as you can see the crowd here has swelled considerably since the first "My new comp is DOA!!111!" tweet 15 minutes ago, although to be fair a lot of these people were already in the neighbourhood after reports of a bear defecating in the woods"
This, folks, is a lovely example of "irony".
A use of words expressing something other than their literal intention? I don't get it. Which word is it?
No, it means "containing iron"
I suspect that his literal intention was not to appear to be a fanboi.
Oh come on
I'm the first to give Apple a good kicking whenever the opportunity arises (quite frequently, as it happens). But 280? Is that it? That's not a widespread problem. That's a handful of over-zealous couriers.
280 of what though?
this 280 figure needs to be put into perspective. if the vast majority of that sum is the 27inch i7 model then its a serious issue...why? because thats a premium product that isnt shipped in high numbers (unlike the basic sizes and plain core2duo and i5 versions. its certainly not the couriers...you'd have to go some way to get them all to have broken in exactly the same way and place.
no, seems more likely a production line fault - bolts being tightened up too much after new board install or somesuch. certainly it looks like the i7 version is hitting problems :-|
Too bad for some
The usual story with any decent apple kit like new laptops and these quad core iMacs is the United States takes the first month or so of production and get any manufacturing problems so the rest of the world has a better experience.
Isn't that nice of them.
Apple: "we don't sell any reasonable home computers, you can either have a big ass broken iMac that's too powerful for it's own good or a weakling little Mac mini that can't do anything, and nothing in between. That's if you don't fancy the world's clunkiest laptop, 3 feet wide with a keyboard inexplicably only 1 foot wide (wasted space is kewl designs), or the world's thinnest most useless laptop that will blow away in a light breeze leaving you looking like a super cool hipster chump"
what next? A super computer in the shape of a commode? A pocket calculator-bagel combination?
How does Apple come up with these ridiculous products?
AC of course.
A super computer in the shape of a commode
280 units out of the millions made by Apple, and we're all complaining?
Apple is a leading "IT Toys" firm and hence uses the top manufacturers in the game. These guys AND Apple should be working to design and manufacture their products so a "6 sigma" level is acheivable. For those who prefer not to look up google, that approximates to 3.4 failures per million units.
So, say they do what, 100 million units, that's 340 fails right, so 280 is good?
Wrong, that's 340 fails DURING assembly, and not 340 fails shipped direct to the poor schlem who's shelled out serious dosh for this piece of crap.
For 280 failed units in a short period of time to be dispatched is shocking. It's a bloody disgrace, and given the types of failures I would seriously be looking at the design (marginal tolerancing???) of the product (Apple), the design of the packaging (oh look, it's Apple again) and design of the assembly process, which, guess what, Apple has approval sign off over. Recurring fails like this should be being pounced and fixed. I'm not saying that NO faulty product should ever be shipped but seriously people, from my point of view, this is a major QA failure and they should have fixed it. I'm not saying it's "Product Recall" time but, allowing it to continue is a disgrace.
It's also worth noting that this is only 280 people who have posted on this guys site, so who wants to hazard a guess how many HAVEN'T posted? Betcha it's a number larger than 280.
Rant over from your local New Product Introduction Engineer... specialist in getting it built right first freakin' time!!!!
So Ty, Fanboi, pipe down and think about the whole process rather than instantly leap to the defence by attacking everyone who might malign your precious Apple. Consider that maybe other minds, better minds than yours, may well actually be right.
@ 6 sigma
"so a "6 sigma" level is acheivable."
You are out of your flipping mind. The cost associated with going to 6 sigma is often not worth it. (BTW this implies < 1% failure rate.) Apple is a business - they are looking to maximize long term profit. (MS does the same!) Here they need to balance the cost of getting less than 1% failure with the cost of just replacing the DOA computers. Clearly one always want to have fewer failures BUT sometimes it is cheaper to accept a few DOAs and fix them after the fact.
If you build it they will come
Man sets up website looking for people with faults in a product. Man finds like-minded people on website.
I wonder how many hits they'd get if he set up bugger_all_wrong_with_my_mac.thanks.com? Oh wait, probably none, because nobody complains if it works.
*/ goes off to see if he can't register the domain ihaveacomplaint.com to darken the world just a little bit further
Uh, there's a category for no fault
If you read the site, there is indeed a category for a perfect mac
I work for a company which rolled out a large number of iMacs and PCs (from a major PC vendor) a few months ago. The return rate of the iMacs was about 20%, the PCs less than 5%.
Ok, so that's an isolated case, a single installation but very interesting figures.
Opposite numbers here
I've done numerous Dell rollouts of 100+ units per phase, with 11% DOA/arrived damaged rates. I did a compaq rollout of 360 machines of which 52 were DOA. I have done a bladeserver rollout of 160 blades with 2 of the chassis and 19 blades nonfunctional. Across my IT career, I've seen a 6-8% that have required service/replacement on arrival. Several of these shipments were factory direct from the vendor's warehouses (not floring or retail companies). Orders shipped traditionally via UPS/FedEx had MUCH higher failure rates.
I also spent serveral years running a big-box retail service center, opening up new machines and prepping them for cunsumers before they were taken home. Failure rates there were 3-4%. None of these had mishandled packaging (we pre-screened those out and did not sell them to consumers as new, only as open box after extensive burn-in testing). Typically, a HDD would be bad, casing misalligned, fans didn't work, cables not fully connected, or deal pizels on screens.
I've also done several Mac rollouts. I've never encounter a mac notebook that had any issues out of the box aside a few from clearly destroyed packaging. I've seen a couple bad pixels, but out of 400+ machines, I'd say 2 or 3. I've seen 1 mini out of a few hundred not working out-of-box. iMacs tend to follow a little closer to 4-5% failure rates, but usually related to a slot-loading DVD drive issue, or had drives that fail sector testing with the exception of the old G4 "lamp" iMacs which had issues with the displays, but even still a relatively low incident number, and in every case handled by next day cross shipping.
Lately I've seen an increase in failure rates, but they've all been attributible to mishandling, not manufacturing defects (which the bulk of DOA PCs fall into). this is likely due to Greenpeac's insistence on reduced packaging, which certainly has left the machines susceptible to more abusive shippers.
@ AC 10:25
I'd rather have a Macbook Pro over some unremittingly dull sub £400 piece of shite breezeblock as peddled by PC World and laughably labelled a 'laptop'.
Was that fanboi enough for you?
May I remind you....
That PC World also peddle the beautifully crafted £1349 piece of shite breezeblock known as the iMac 27"? Apple laughingly use the slogan "It just works"... except of course when it doesn't. But you already knew that, didn't you? PC World - "we sell all kinds of shite".
Yeah Me too..
but I'd rather have the PC I built myself over an extortionate iMacbook iPro...
BUT if I just wanted a small handy device for checking my email, reading a few news sites and forums then I'd probably be happier only paying £200 for "something from PC world", than £1000 for a table decoration.
If your argument lies solely with the staff of PCworld Mis-selling, then its not a very good argument, because even my granny knows they are idiots!
The argument isn't that you should spend your money on a shit laptop, but that you could spend the same money on an at least equal laptop. Oh, and one that isn't likely to break.
Like these i7s that "don't break". I can definitely get a PC that has the same spec as a Mac for less money. The really great thing is, the PC also does more. It runs more software, and is generally more useful. It is really nice being able to access my corporate VPN from home which is only possible on a PC; or run the same CAD software at home and at work (AutoDesk, Rhino 3D, virtually every high end system); etc. etc.
"I can definitely get a PC that has the same spec as a Mac for less money. The really great thing is, the PC also does more. It runs more software, and is generally more useful. It is really nice being able to access my corporate VPN from home which is only possible on a PC; or run the same CAD software at home and at work (AutoDesk, Rhino 3D, virtually every high end system); etc. etc."
OK, I call BS on numerous points here...
1) The Mac also runs Windows, both natively and in a coherence VM. Your PC does not. Technically, as a Mac user, I'd have access to MORE software than you, as you can not run any of the Mac-only software, like Filmmaker Pro, or any of the music or, video, or graphics editing software that more than 90% of that industry is standardized on and all of which is Mac-only.
2) I VPN to my Cisco systems at work regulary from a mac, in fact, our 2 most senior CCNAs are Mac users. Here's the free Cisco driver: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/secursw/ps2308/index.html Generic PPTP VPN is a native function of OS X and requires no 3rd party software at all. That said, usually the VPN is established by the firewall/router, not the PC itself, unless you VPN in from mobile, insecure sites, which is not reccomended, and for which the SSL client can be hacked (see recent articles about unpatched Cisco Anywhere vulns).
3) Here's AutoDesk's Mac Supported product portfolio: http://usa.autodesk.com/products/mac-compatible-products. Note AutoCad is natively supported for Windows on Mac (via Parallels). Other core apps like Maya run natively on OS X. Also note less than 1 in 1,000 professionals would use such software in 2 places, given the rediculous licensing costs and lack of license portability... If you;re running AutoCAD, likely it;s on a workstation, not a generic PC, and you;re taking a machine MORE expensive than a Mac pro assuming it's running Xeons and a CAD adapter... If you;re not running it on a workstation class machine, then you're likely not a pro architect or editor, and didn't spend 1000's on this software anyway, and if you did, would be happy running it on any quad core.
4) You said "same specs" and I'm taking that to mean "equal or faster machine with the same performance or better" since simply matching GHZ, and GB means nothing unless you match or beat the SPECS of the core components, so: Build cost of an i7 on New Egg: Closest matching screen (or better) only 1 on all of NewEgg, $1199, and it's not even an IPS screen. Intel 920 i7 CPU (actually, the iMac has the 930, but they;'re not available in retail yet, Apple has the exclusive deal for now...) $304. RAM 4GB 1066 DDR 3 $94. Board $169 cheapest board offered that supports 920CPU that also includes both enough slots to support other components and includes either firewire OR eSATA, $169. Power Supply $59, Case $49, both pretty generic and not 80+%. DVD $32. HDD 1TB 7200 $84. 4850 512GPU $119. WiFi-n $55 (must be PCIx for mainbourd to support it). No OS, No software, no webcam, no speakers, no bluetooth, no infrared, no mic, no wireless mouse, no wireless keyboard, no SD card reader, and NO WARRANTY. total $2164 plus shipping and taxes. iMac euqlally equipped, plus all the omitted extras above, and thrown in Parallels 5.0 and a printer for free, $2079 + tax (shipping free). Nearly $100 less, and hundreds more in value with all the included features.
I can do the exact same for the 13" white Macbook, 15" MacBook Pro, and the Mac Pro. You CAN NOT BUY a machine with the SAME OR BETTER specs as a Mac for less money. In the case of the 27" Mac, you can't even BUILD one! The Mini, you can buy a cheaper comperable machine, but not in that form factor with a real GPU, and throw in the value adds and software and it is cheaper than any retailer's PC of the same class.
You know what they say...
...280 bad apples spoil the barrel.
If two Hundred and Eighty Angry Customers turned up to demonstarte outside your place of work would it make the news?? Of course it would! heres a perspective for you 280 is SIX Coach Loads! that is a quiet sizeable angry Mob!
- Review Is it an iPad? Is it a MacBook Air? No, it's a Surface Pro 3
- Game Theory The agony and ecstasy of SteamOS: WHERE ARE MY GAMES?
- Hello, police, El Reg here. Are we a bunch of terrorists now?
- Kate Bush: Don't make me HAVE CONTACT with your iPHONE
- Worstall on Wednesday Wall Street woes: Oh noes, tech titans aren't using bankers