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back to article Manchester journo gets first ID card - late

A Manchester Evening News hack claims to be the first member of the public to get an ID card in the government's pilot, despite her application almost being scuppered by an accident with a roast potato. Angela Epstein was offered the first appointment at the City's ID central office, after covering the scheme in her column in …

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Big Brother

Nothing to hide

I have nothing to hide either, but I prefer to walk around with my trousers on

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Britards Reunited

"They included name of first pet, favourite song and best subject at school."

Has British society now reached the point where life after school is one big nostalgia trip for everyone's schooldays, somewhat like the American obsession for replaying/reliving high school until retirement age? They'll be making *everyone* wear a ridiculous uniform soon with a name tag (plus badges for important societal roles at or above the "house rugby team captain" level) in order to provide "foolproof ID".

As for Chadderton, I imagine that job creation has to take place in the old British Aerospace heartlands what with BAE Systems being so effective at shuffling those jobs around the world and still demanding corporate welfare.

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FAIL

Oh really?

"I personally can’t see what there is to lose if you’re a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide"

How about your privacy and your freedom?

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Congrats !

Well done that women ! She now had to keep the govt. updated on a range of personal details, for the rest of her life, at her own cost. The govt., can, of course, leave these on a train as often as they like.

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Anonymous Coward

so err

Wait, how did she prove she was who she said she was? And what stops her from getting another ID card saying she's someone else tommorow? Now that would be exciting, see how many identities you can get in a year. Also what happens if you have no hands? Sad amputes can have no identity :c(

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The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.

She proves who she is by taking along her passport. Silly innit.

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FAIL

This person is a journalist?

"Of course, Epstein understands some people have reservations about the ID card. "As I’ve said before I understand why people have their reservations, but I personally can’t see what there is to lose if you’re a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide."

Having nothing to hide is NOT the same as it being NONE of the government's business!

I give up, truly.

Tim

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Anonymous Coward

Yes TimBiller

What do you expect from a journo? I wouldn't trust the date printed at the top of a paper nowadays unless it was corroborated by an independent 3rd party.

Having worked for a major paper in the past, this is unfortunately typical.

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An this woman

passes as a journalist....

Words fail me.

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Nothing to hide

This gang represent the biggest problem. When their prints or DNA turn up on a fag packet carelessly dropped on a nondescript patch of woodland upon which, the following day, a gruesome murder takes place, they'll be dragged in and questioned for hours. True, they won't have 'anything to worry about' since they're innocent, but our authorities are becoming notoriously good at making peoples' lives difficult before even the intent to commit and offence has been committed.

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@Dark Ian - far worse than that

DNA is far worse than you realize. Your DNA may well turn up on the knife sticking out of the victim.

1. Because you handled it in the shop months earlier

2. Because the murderer has decided to muddy the waters by wiping the knife's handle around the rim of a used pint glass purloined from a pub where you were drinking

3. Because in 20 years' time the national DNA database will have "leaked" into the hands of organised crime, and DNA synthesizers will be available to the same criminals

4. Like 3, except you are not a random DNA sample, but someone that they have it in for. A witness, maybe, so no alibi, and of course you would be claiming some other dude did it ....

Fingerprints are even easier to plant, all you need is a fingerprint or copy thereof, plus some amateur photographer, electronics, and DIY kit. Photo to etched circuit board to silicone rubber on the fingertips of some rubber gloves in under an hour.

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear ... NOT.

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Big Brother

Burnt fingers screw up readers

I'll remember that should Labour get in next year and make it compulsory

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Oh, where to start?

>‘password’ questions from a list of 20

Personally I just fill these with junk as I don't forget passwords. However if that's part of the security then the system needs looking at.

>electronically recorded signature

My signature is a scribble that is rarely the same twice, there is a reasonable explanation for this but I won't go into it suffice it to say that if a signature is part of the biometrci information then the system needs looking at.

>what with there being no backlog.

Ah, so they are planning on having a backlog already, if that's the case then the process needs looking at.

I think they haven't quite thought things out as well as they could have.

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FAIL

No surprise

When you read her column this article refers to (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1184794_opinion_angela_epstein) she says she was invited by the government pretty much because she has been using her column to say ID cards are the bees knees (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1115240_opinion_angela_epstein).

Usual guff arguments including the fight against terrorism but mainly if your against it your one of the "Human rights howlers " which is bad, m'kay?

Bit I loved was "But that’s the beauty of a voluntary scheme and a democratic society. You can choose to have one or not." Uh huh. Thats until the government start either make it very inconvenient to access certain services without one or just outright deny you them without a card (or if you just choose a job serving coffee in an airport).

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Unhappy

Re: No Surprise

I'm not sure what's worse - being a Human Rights Howler or a Privacy Pirate... God help those of us who are both - we'll be shunned by society!

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Rob
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FAIL

No criminal intention

I have lots to hide from the government, not because I'm of the criminal fraternity but on the basis of the more I hide it's less for the government to lose or publish accidently for the world+dog to see.

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Stop

Stop it, just stop it !!!

"As I’ve said before I understand why people have their reservations, but I personally can’t see what there is to lose if you’re a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide."

Aarrrrrrrrrggghhh, if I hear that bullshite one more time, just ONE more time.....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nothing to hide

And my curtains closed at night

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Anonymous Coward

Curtains

I find it amusing to ask those intellectually retarded people who trot out the old "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" phrase whether in their house they have curtains or blinds.

So far, they have always responded with one or the other.

Then I ask why they have them, and sit back and enjoy the squirming.

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Big Brother

add this to smart meters

I despair of "nothing to hide", do these people have two brain cells to rub together or has nothing ever gone wrong in their lives, in spite of their best efforts.

This together with e.g., smart meters (and whatever else is coming along) then with one database error (c.f. woman who had to leave the NHS system in order to regain control over her incorrectly maintained medical records) not only do you become a non-person but you'll be in the dark eating cold food to keep warm. It doesn't have to be about having done something notable. In fact you'll probably be in a better position if you have, because someone somewhere will have other information about you.

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Joke

Next week:

Man shot while resisting arrest under Prevention of Terrorism provisions. A police spokesman said: "The suspect was in posession of roast potatoes and was obviously engaged in identity fraud".

Other news: Ministry of Justice issues list of permissible seasonal vegetables, Mad Hatter appointed Home Secretary.

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Joke

wow....

She makes even the Daily Mail or The Sun look credible reporting centres....

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Anonymous Coward

What do you mean 'Joke Alert'?

Its bloody true!

...no...I must be dreaming...

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Flame

Nothing to hide...

...nothing to fear, eh?

How about..

"Done nothing wrong, no need to look"?

or

"Quite frankly, it's none of your sodding business"?

I think all MPs, MSPs and senior civil servants should be forced to have these cards first. Nice, small population to test things out and see what happens.

And if it's one lot of corrupt sods that need a close watch, it's that lot!

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FAIL

Biometrics of a burnt finger

Fantastic, her biometrics now include a burnt finger. All she needs to do in a few months time to prove that she is who she says she is in a few months time (once finger has healed) is to just burn it the exact same way so that the biometrics matches...

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Grenade

Journalist?

Clearly a Stepford Journalist!

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Pirate

On the other hand

I am not a law abiding citizen, and I have got some stuff to hide. Better work at it a little harder now. And sod having a I.D. card.

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FAIL

Umm, hold on a sec...

"I was then asked to choose five ‘password’ questions from a list of 20 which were unique to me and could subsequently prove who I was. They included name of first pet"

OK. A fixed, historic piece of information.

"best subject at school"

OK. A little subjective and people may have more than one so say a different one in 5 years when asked for it but a reasonably fixed, historic piece of information.

"favourite song"

Is it just me or is this a variable piece of information that changes with time/mood/other outside factors?

If I loose my ID and get 2/5 of my questions wrong do I cease to exist?

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Anonymous Coward

"favourite song"

"Is it just me or is this a variable piece of information that changes with time/mood/other outside factors?"

Good point, I missed that. What I would say it is is that her sort don't particularly care for music, so the "favourite song" is a part of her projected personality ID that defines, for her, who she is, without which (and the rest of it) _she_ ceases to exist. Or anyway that is what she's terrified of.

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WTF?

WTF?

20 questions to prove who I am?

There's yet more proof that the scheme has been designed by clueless morons who don't understand security.

And yes, my first pet's name was 64A#Y%*pDcqZWUvz and if your system can't take that, then it does not work. No, I don't care what you think my mom's maiden name was, I KNOW it was ThroatMango3withAHoverCraftFullOfDandelions

I just don't get how these people who say "nothing to hide" can't even read the first paragaph of a search engine page and recoil in horror of what they're letting themselves in for. Are humans really that monumentally stupid?

GRRR.

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Joke

Re: WTF?

"20 questions to prove who I am?"

1. Are you smaller than a bread box?

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Anonymous Coward

Your mum

Was your mum one of the Hampshire ThroatMango3withAHoverCraftFullOfDandelionses???

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Grenade

littlte bobby tables

My first pets name was عذراء and my faverate song is '; drop table address

Parse that.

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Big Brother

Please oh please oh please....

Let someone manage to clone her identity!!!

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FAIL

Re: Please oh please oh please....

I thought she was brave posing with her card for a picture, but on closer inspection it's just a printout of the standard "Specimen" card. Fail.

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Happy

Oh yes !!!!

Hopefully the same crowd that showed Jezza "Jeremy" Clarkson up when he challenged people to steal his identity will go to work here ...

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Anonymous Coward

What's the problem?

She sounds like a _right_ specimen!

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Jezza

To give him his due, he stood up for what he believed and put his money where his mouth is (instead of giving specimen details) and when proved wrong, immediately recanted and admitted that he was dead wrong. No bluster, no ifs and buts.

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Anonymous Coward

As heard on R4 PM

She was on the PM prog a couple of days ago ... she'd apparently written some pro-id pieces in the local newspaper and was, I think, approached to ask if she'd like to be first in the queue.

From what I recall of what she said then the "roast potato" incident meant that the scan on that finger didn't work and rather than taking the plaster off she said on PM that a note was added to the records to explain the missing digit scan

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Thumb Down

Wearing something on your finger hinders taking prints

Who'dathunkit?

We need a "duh" icon, possibly featuring the absence of excrement.

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Joke

Time for some creative answers

"First pets' name?" 'DROP TABLE "Names"'

With credit to With http://xkcd.com/327/

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Boffin

You need a statement separator there

such as a semicolon, and comment characters to prevent the rest of the original SQL statement from executing. My first pet's name was, of course:

Fluffy'); DROP TABLE USERS; --

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Grenade

My dog was called :

Tim'); system rm -rf /

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Big Brother

I am not a number; I am a free man!

Sod the fucking ID cards. Sod this deceitful government of taxpayers'-money-wasting cnuts. Out with the lot of them! Feckless wankers.

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Pint

Smart Meters, I'm so scared...

You have a problem with one, then either hit it with a big hammer and join the connections with rubber gloves or put a Faraday cage around it and say its for protection from the neighbours WiFi. Of course tell them a burglar did it or something... what can they do, spesh after they won't have someone round for 5 years to see it at least... move house in the meantime... worked every time for me

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Anonymous Coward

@Epstein

What's your salary? Have you ever cheated on your partner? Do you speed? Have you ever imbibed more that the government's recommended daily amount of alcohol? Have you ever smoked weed? Have you ever cheated on your expenses?

Are you a law abiding citizen?

Do you have anything to hide?

Not that it matters, based on previous government data collection projects, the whole world will know what your best subject at school, etc was soon enough.

Do you absolutely trust your government and all future incarnations of it for the rest of your life?

You do? You're an idiot.

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Grenade

MPs first please.

Well, we all now know what to ask any prospective MPs during the next election, "Do you have an ID card? If not, why not?"

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Removing it ... not the finger

She thinks she's joking?

As soon as her finger is the key to anything of value, there will be people out there performing amputations. It's alreary happened in South Africa, where a businessman had his finger hacked off when the carjackers found out that his Merc was started by fingerprint not by key.

(He was probably lucky it didn't start by retina scan)

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