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back to article UK mulls extension of McKinnon judicial review period

Alan Johnson said he may grant Pentagon hacker Gary McKinnon extra time to apply for judicial review of his US extradition case, but the home secretary insisted he was powerless to stop the forced transfer. "As I have said at every stage of these proceedings, we will not commence extradition proceedings until all legal avenues …

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Looking Ahead...... to Future Event Horizons and Possible Scenarios

Aspergers is a extremely complicated condition which for some, and maybe even all, would walk them to the line that has a certain genius recognised on one side with an imposed madness on t'other.

You definitely wouldn't want Aspies exercising their Disruptive Technology Skills if Gary's preferred choice to remain is abused.

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Flame

Government loses even more support

This dying government needs friends not more enemies if they are to be not in 3rd place in the next general election. Me? Well, this spineless action has not swung me back to the land of red roses. I am disgusted in our poodle governments actions. The US is not a friend to the UK, they are only friendly to themselves.

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When?

"until all legal avenues Mr. McKinnon wants to pursue have been exhausted,"

There doesn't seem to be any end to these avenues. He's lost at every stage, so why is he still here?

If he hadn't fought extradition, I'm sure he'd have served his sentence and been home long since.

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FAIL

Ignoring...

...the fact that he should never have been deported under this one-side and deeply dangerous treaty in the first place. No ones should.

The USA should be forced to prove that they have a valid case before a UK judge (just as the UK has to do).

And in this case, they USA should be asked to explain why such secretive information was (basically) unsecured.

I'm not a supported of McKinnon, but I do not think their extradition treaty should received any support. Our government are a spineless bunch of wankers only interested in their next expenses claim and cushy directorship.

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That's not the bloody point

Yes, fine so he may have finished his sentence by now. But only if whatever crazy, black cap wearing monster that presided over his hearing didn't throw the book at him, as the FBI want.

The point here is that he has every right to fight this, so he has.

Also it's bringing into question the fairness of our extradition treaty with the yanks. The Home Secretary says he doesn't have the power to stop his extradition. So who the hell does? I'm starting to get the feeling that the answer is no one on this side of the pond.

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2 things

"I'm sure he'd have served his sentence and been home long since."

Probably not - the septics have shown that they want to throw the book at him - it is likely that he will get a very lenghty sentence and be required to serve it in the most crowded, nastiest place they can find (Probably sharing a room with Bubba or Billy-Bob, possibly both)

But even so, everyone is entitled to justice - if you feel that you have been / are being wronged, you have the right to due process under the law. Going quietly just because it is convenient for other people is wrong. People should stand up for their beliefs

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Anonymous Coward

He can reverse Smiths decision

Alan Johnson can reverse Smiths decision, he just won't.

As for legal avenues, McKinnon never had the option to challenge the basis for the use of this treaty. The evidence isn't presented to the UK court to determine if the extradition conditions have been met. So he can't show the court that they've inflated their claim to use the treaty.

They inflated their claim to use this treaty.

So all we ever see is this mincing around, considering whether the procedure has been followed (not the big hole in the procedure), whether his speech problem is a reason to reject (not the big hole in the procedure), whether the judicial laws have been followed (not the big hole in the ....

And more mincing doesn't excuse Johnson from his job in this.

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Anonymous Coward

They are just delaying the inevitable

Ship the bum off to the U.S. and get on with life. He hacked, he got caught and now he'll be prosecuted like any other criminal.

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Grenade

Well, septic tank...

your grammar marks you down as such, and as such your views and comments are null and void. Please go back to reading the National Enquirer and sucking GB's end.

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Anonymous Coward

F the US

OK, I admit I no longer live in the UK although I was born there, I say FUCK the US and their poxy anti-terrorism agreement with the UK. Successive administrations in the US have had the belief that they own the world and everyone it it. Well, they dont! As far as I'm concerned the US as a whole are a bunch of greedy fuckers who live in a morally and ethically corrupt society with a thin covering of pseudo Christian rhetoric to justify themselves.

On a more practical level they should be thanking McKinnon for pointing out that their cyber security is fucking woeful and that they should be getting their heads out of their arses.

What a pack of wankers. A morally corrupt society in its death throes. I cant wait to see what happens when India and China take over as the economic powerhouses of the world. Good fucking riddance USA!

By the way I have met some very nice individuals from various parts of the US, and this rant is not directed at you.

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Anonymous Coward

The US is barbaric

they will be able to 'treat' his condition, if torture is the new treatment.

In all my travels the US has to be the most backward, petty, hypocritical, little shit of a nation, you could ever have the displeasure of seeing, a pox on their citizens, and all their descendants, may they literally and figuratively burn in hell.

The US cares nothing for Law, it only wants to bully, torture and abuse. The US is a nation without redemption, they are a broken people. If McKinnon takes his life, his blood will be on the hands of each and every one of them. We should just pity the US, no other nation should listen to them, and all treaties with them should be considered null and void, fit only to be sold back to them as toilet paper, so they can defecate into their own words.

Not to put too fine a point on it.

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re: The US is barbaric

It's ok, we still love you. Next time you come for a visit, could you bring more babies? They were delicious.

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Stop

Some element of truth

While I'm not on the other guys bandwagon, it has been plain to see from all the negative responses from Americans on lots of other forums/boards that McKinnon will be a trophy to inmates. Likely that the first one to do him real harm will be a hero.

As for my experience of being in the US ... ugh! Never again!

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Thumb Down

Unfair to the spineless

I do think it's unfair to call Alan Johnson "spineless". This is an insult to all invertebrates. If Giant Squid had lawyers they would sue.

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Here I stand

I will vote for whichever party promises in their manifesto to cancel this treaty within 90 days of the upcoming election.

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FAIL

And the word of the week is .....

"Jonson".

To open and move ones mouth whilst talking through your arse.

When used as a noun, as in "to be a total jonson", this means to Jonson, whilst also being spineless.

In polite circles, this is a sign of epic failure.

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Big Brother

Spineless twunks

Baroness Scotland, she of the hanging onto my gravy ilk, has reportedly said that it's OK to extradite McKinnon because NuLiebor don't want to create waves with Uncle Sam! The faceless individuals who formulated this treaty and allowed it's implementation without any reciprocation from USA give are more than spineless they are merely slime.

When will the government stop taking away our rights.

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Anonymous Coward

Tory MP misses coup de grace?

"Far from you saying you are powerless to stop Gary McKinnon's extradition, in the light of this medical evidence, you have shown yourself and your government to be spineless,"

David Burrowes just needed eight more words to put his quote on all the front pages

"and we have the x-rays to prove it"

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Keep it going for another two years

That way he'll have spent 10 years fearful of being thrown into a cell with a burly trucker named Jim, and can have his sentence reduced by that time.

I recommend a 7 year jail cell... So they owe him a year of his life back so far.

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FAIL

Just another entry in the UK joke book

Ashamed to be British.

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Grenade

spineless

Yeah, totally spinless in standing up to they baying hourds of the media and refusing to do something popular. Just like a polititian.

Incidently Gary's Groupies are now describing him as a "very ill young man". He's 43 and has mild Aspergers... God I really want his PR team on my side when I next do something stupid and illegal....

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Anonymous Coward

Well, you just

did something stupid. What are the odds!

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Anonymous Coward

Likely to kill himself

Rubbish! All US justice needs to do is waterboard him until he swears he won't! And if he still tries it, they can fire up ol' sparky - call it ECT for scapegoats of DOD ineptitude.

They could give him a course in a tanning salon, then try him in the South. Or Alaska. No-one knows how to administer justice like a US senator seeking nomination!

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Anonymous Coward

Title

I'm no expert, but I've never heard of aspergers being linked with suicidal tendencies. And it's curious that the suicide issue has only been mentioned in the media recently. Has it always been an issue in the procedings and the media haven't reported it, or has it just come up now. If it's the former then fair enough.

It seems however that it's another invalid argument that could set a dangerous precedent. What if everybody who's under threat of extradition was to cite sucidal tendencies?

And the fact that the Johnson won't overrule the courts is a good thing. We should never have a situation where a politician can overrule the courts. What the fuck is the point of a legal system if politicians can overrule it at will?

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Anonymous Coward

Do you remember...

...Michael Howard, the Sun, and the James Bulger's killers?

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Anonymous Coward

Erm?

Yes. And your point is?

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Anonymous Coward

Howard butted in

to make sure the killers got longer sentences than they (as children) would have. Because the Sun was screaming that they should.

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Anonymous Coward

Let's Do a Deal

everything in life is negotiable, the Americans are reasonable people.

We could give you Alan Johnson, Gordon Brown, the entire Cabinet, and the Labour party along with all their voters, you can do what you like with them.

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Headmaster

Suicidal Aspies?

As a fully fledged member of the Asperger Syndrome club (oh yes, I'm screwed in the head big time) I can honestly say that I am sick to sodding death of this. McKinnon did something bad (despite what he may say, most Aspies know the difference between 'right' and 'wrong' - and, somehow, 'hacking into the Pentagon' doesn't really fall into that grey 'in between' area either). Then he got caught. Then he was 'magically' diagnosed with AS. Somehow this now makes him less accountable. Oh and it also manages to add yet another 'black mark' in the public's mind when 'AS' gets mentioned (despite the media's best efforts we're not all brick wielding maniacs, who don't know wrong from right, couldn't give a flying f*ck about anybody but themselves, and we don't *all* need 24/7 supervision).

OK the law sucks and the government are about as much use as the proverbial chocolate fire guard (actually that's not true - you could *eat* a chocolate fireguard) but the guy did the crime...now do the time.

Is he suicidal? So what if he is. I'm bloody suicidal most of the time (two attempts and counting =:S) but there are lots of people who are suicidal (Aspies and non-Aspie alike) and just being 'suicidal' does not make a great defence...if it did then pretty much everyone who gets sent down would claim they were 'suicidal'.

Oh and as in 'insight', Asperger's does not lead to a greater level of suicide. The *consequences* of AS (social exclusion, isolation etc.) can be seen to push people towards suicide but, in itself, it doesn't come with a 'death sentence' attached to it.

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Anonymous Coward

"Johnson"

Isn't that an American euphemism for penis?

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Anonymous Coward

Postman Johnson...

Should go back to what he does best, delivering letters.

Regardless of whether Gary has AS or not, he should not be deported to the USA. The fact that our government colludes with theirs in all kinds of underhand immoral and quite often illegal shit is the reason that we will let them have him. Parasites all of them.

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It's Labour that will be powerless, soon.

Alan Johnson is an idiot. Powerless? Powerless would be letting an FBI agent come and pick up Gary, and take him away, whilst pointing guns at our police.

If Alan Johnson is powerless to stop America doing what the hell it wants here, then god help us all.

This of course, is the same man, that after paying taxpayers money to get a team to investigate drugs, sacked one of the scientists, after the scientist did tests, and came up with results that didn't agree with Alan's personal blinkered view on drugs.

He is extremely untrustworthy, and devoid of logic.

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FAIL

Sorry

You're comparing apples with apricots there.*

The McKinnon extradition issue is down to the fact that Johnson has no legal power to overrule the courts in this case. The only power he has is to refer it to a higher court or judicial review. While the home sec can in certain circumstances issue a pardon, he can't do that in this case because McKinnon has not been charged with anything under English law.

The sacking was down to a scientist completely misunderstanding what being a government advisor involves. Firstly and most imporatantly advice is something that anybody has a right to ignore, "advisor" is not the same as "policy maker". Secondly when you are working for somebody and they don't agree with you, you don't run crying to the press. My personal view (based on the available evidence) is that the sacking should not have taken place, but there should have been some disciplinary action for not playing by the rules. That, however, has less than no bearing at all on the McKinnon case.

Do try to make sense.

* I thought there ought to be at least some IT content in this post.

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Flame

You're an idiot

Clearly, you have not got the faintest idea of why the drug classification system was set up and how it is supposed to work.

It is not (and never was) meant to be subject to the whim of politicians. It was intended to be purely based on science. That is what Nutt's job was, to determine where any given drug should be in the classification, BASED ON SCIENCE. It wasn't about agreeing or disagreeing. Science is not based on opinion. It is based on evidence, not on government policy.

He is not powerless in the McKinnon case either, as the Home Affairs Select Commitee recently pointed out to him. He just can't be arsed.

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Anonymous Coward

Massaging the figures.

"advisor" is not the same as "policy maker"

Tell that to the CRU.

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Anonymous Coward

Whether you were right or not...

...(about Nutt's position), Johnson's/the Govt.s (current) position on recreational drugs demonstrably less harmful than a myriad of perfectly legal things (and that politicians also indulge in), is persecution of (perceived) minorities. They can't persecute women, blacks, or gays anymore, so they sure as hell are going to hold on to one of their few remaining bogeymen (persons?). The Johnson/Nutt episode is/was about a principled man standing up to an unprincipled one; an honest man speaking out about a liar. Whistleblowers aren't supposed to be sacked; the ones they expose are.

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Anonymous Coward

First principles

Policy is meant to be based on truth. When it is based on lies, it is tyranny, and the only reason it is followed is mass cowardice.

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FAIL

Paul Smith 4

"He hacked, he got caught and now he'll be prosecuted like any other criminal."

That is rather the point, he won't.

He will be treated like an international terrorist and deported to another country on the say so of someone in another country, without any evidence to support that being shown to a judge here.

He will stand trial in another country under their judicial system and our own government are powerless to intervene (which is no defence for the government as they deliberately created the law that ties their own hands just so they can say "ooh look, we'd love to help but our hands are tied").

Any other criminal would be tried here under our judicial system, so he won't be prosecuted like any other criminal.

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@ Aspie

Completely agree with you - the odds of him being suicidal are pretty slim, and he's not the only one in that boat, and he definitely did do something wrong and deserves punishment - I'd argue a few months jail time isn't unreasonable.

It's the extradition that's getting on everyones tits, and specifically the lopsided agreement, because it's becomeing apparent that if Uncle Sam wants us and has "reasonable suspicion", we go - and now not even the Home Secretary can stop it.

So frankly although McKinnon is a guilty ass, him not going is a good result and if they can't come about it via honest means I guess hand-wringing and suicidal tendencies will have to do.

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Anonymous Coward

Inhumane

What they are doing to him is inhumane. He is innocent until proven guilty remember, or did that go out when Naz.....I mean Labour came to power in 1997 ?.

I went through 10 years of S*** myself against the authorities and can tell you they are complete and utter arseholes (but less useful or necessary) .

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Paris Hilton

@ Inhumane

> He is innocent until proven guilty remember

Get it right people: innocent UNLESS proven guilty.

> or did that go out when Naz

I invoke Godwin's Law.

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Anonymous Coward

Ah, well...

>>>He is innocent until proven guilty remember

Of course he is - but perhaps *you* don't remember that he's already admitted he did it, which I'm sure will be introduced into evidence against him - in a US court.

Now, as much as I dislike the little wanker crying out about his Aspergers' (total bollocks) and his little green aliens story (more bollocks - the "I am SOLO" message the little braggart left said he intended to continue disrupt at the highest levels), I am pretty annoyed that it's a lop-sided extradition agreement.

Still, until it's changed, it am what it am.

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Anonymous Coward

Another waste of space as Home Sec

Truly spineless. If this were a US citizen being sought by UK authorities, the only word we'd have had from the septics would have been 'no'.

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