back to article Combat games disrespect war laws, report claims

Videogames should respect the real-world rules governing wars, a report has concluded, following research into how many videogames break them. A study of 20 titles, including many from the Call of Duty and Tom Clancy series, carried out by Pro Juvenile – an organisation which aims to protect kids from unlimited videogame …

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whatever

pointless self serving shelfware. Next...

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FAIL

Yes.

That's because they are.... GAMES.

What next? Pacman slated for eating more than the RDA? Super Mario slated for 'disrespecting road-safety law'? Lemmings slated for cruelty to animals?

FFS. Do these people have nothing better to do?

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FAIL

Idiots

People claiming there are any sorts of "war laws" in the first place just make themselves look stupid.

I understand what they are saying, but to try to demonize war games with the arguements that they disrespect war laws seems ironic.

Are these people therefore argueing that there is such a thing as a just war?

Or are they so hung up on their own children not being able to tell right from wrong that they will jump at any excuse to shift the blame for not bringing them up well onto someone/something else.

A computer game has so many rules compaired with real combat, where the best equiped and most numerious force rapes the women of the other side.

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WTF?

or

just have a war tribunal level at the end of the game?

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Grenade

Can I be the first to say...

...what utter bollocks. Can't wait for Call of Duty:Geneva Convention to come out!

I'm off to toast some Japs with my flamethrower shoot some Nazi POWs in the back of the head.

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WTF?

so... yo' momma disrepects war laws

tell 'em to fuck off, it's not real.

What next, virtual fines for dropping virtual litter because the virtual character was virtually hungry and needed to virtually eat a virtual Mars bar, wow that sounds like a fun game dynamic.

Computer games are good for one thing, letting you blow shit up, in a pretend way.

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WTF?

Get a grip...

...seriously! What the hell? Cruelty to pixels now?

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Grenade

And Street racing games..

..disrespect traffic laws. That is why they are Games, not simulations.

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Grenade

What the hell

I agree.

I mean, what was I thinking last night when I used blasting strike to send a tank over a cliff in Battlefield Heros before doing a tarzan impression?

Get a grip. Video games are an ESCAPE from reality, just like books and films.

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FAIL

do the war laws apply to evil characters?

do the war laws apply to evil characters? Evil characters wouldnt be much fun if you had to obey international law. I think some people have too much time on their hands, to think of things like this. What kind of person thinks about the legal aspects of "Call of duty" for example.

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Stop

<title>

I think that we need to get Father Ted to sit them down and draw the picture detailing reality and fiction.

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Gates Halo

Time for tea

Is teabagging not considered vital in real-world combat?

oi scamps, get on msn. I need to talk to you about stu [-]

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About time...

It is about time that someone realised this. For a long time I have been horrified by the complete disregard of the rights of virtual computer game characters. Ever since I was a young lad and I formed GHRT (Ghosts Have Rights Too) to defend the ghosts about the yellow pill taking monstrosity called Pac Man. And look what he did to his wife and children, he encouraged them down the same corrupt path: take pills, murder ghosts and then grab a quick munchy! Where are the ghosts rights? GHRT had a thriving membership, we had cards and everything, although the membership did halve recently when my dog passed away.

We need more studies like this, the number of computer games out there that break laws is outrageous, we should get these people to investigate, here is a list that springs to mind:

Space simulators – they generally break the laws of physics

World of Warcraft – how come I can resurrect and why is it the Gnomes always look gay? Is this bias against gnomish rights?

World Simulators like SimCity – surely pretending I’m god upsets someone!

C’mon, give us more of these reports, we need them…

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Paris Hilton

FFS

And in further news today....

The Financial Services Authority were considering referring the owners of Hotels on Mayfair and Park Lane to the Monopolies Commission....

The Association of Chief Police Officers condemned as "utterly irresponsible" the amateur sleuthing of Professor Plum, Reverend Green and various others present at a country house last weekend following the murder of Dr Black. A spokesman said: "they have ignored all rules of evidence gathering and the crime scene is now thoroughly compromised".

And at the London International Chess Tournament, two bishops and a white knight were complaining bitterly about the conduct of a certain Black Queen, who proceeded to cut them down in a violent and vindictive fashion even as they attempted to surrender.

Paris, cause she knows lots about playing games - and can definitely tell the difference between games and real life.

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g e
Silver badge

So....

Team Killing on by default then when you're playing as the USA?

Obviously these nobjockeys can't tell game from reality either...

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FAIL

And that's not all

As I understand it, driving games allow you to break the speed limit, platform games often allow you to beat the rules of physics (have you seen Mario jump? Tchoh!) and role playing games allow you to pretend you're someone you're not.

In other news: bears apparently defecate in wooded areas.

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Unhappy

Real life

And surely if Modern Warfare 2 was to be completely realistic it should start with a message saying:

Your gun and body armor will be here shortly once Gordon has decided if you should have it, have this big stick for now and run really fast...

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(untitled)

And Grand Theft Auto ought not to allow characters to break the law either. Far too exciting.

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Better ban Civilization then

You can commit genocide in that.

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Stop

Incredible

The failure of understanding demonstrated by these authors is astonishing. Good grief, even in Blast Thru/Arkanoid I don't think you asked permission of whoever's blocks they were to trash them.

Must've been fun, as a legal expert, to sit in on some of these games and put your mighty brain up against the "challenge" of finding violations of internal law, though:

Report moron: So, the player, working for NOD, just nuked a city. Does that count?

Lawyer: Uh, yeah, I'd say so.

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Silver badge
Stop

They make a fair point.

However, the study was "carried out by Pro Juvenile – an organisation which aims to protect kids from unlimited videogame violence - and Trial, which fights to prevent people who commit war crimes getting away with it".

I can't help but think that these arganisations may be biased in some way towards finding the answers they may be looking for. The first group at least would seem to have a pretty clear ulterior motive to find 'evidence' that violent games are 'bad' for children.

I wonder how many controlled trials have been carried out to study whether players of violent computer games go on to commit acts of violence themselves. I can pretty much guarantee that there have been no such studies conducted to show any possible link between computer games which simulate breaches of such things as the Geneva Convention and people who actually commit such acts.

What I suspect this study ACTUALLY shows is that these two organisations are attempting to drum up some publicity for their causes by conducting a 'study' which supports their agenda.

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Grenade

Too right.

It's disgusting the way these video games work. Just last night I was appalled at the violence in Worms. I mean who would call in an airstrike to kill a bloody worm for gods sake?

And what had that poor sheep done to deserve its gruesome and frankly unnecessary death?

This sort of violence needs removing from our houses immediately, if only to protect the children.

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WTF?

One last time people....

repeat after me: video game != real life

Anyone who can't tell the difference (yes even children know when something is 'just a game') probably shouldn't be playing.

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Silver badge

It's merely a game - they're not real soldiers

The people who play such games (disclaimer: not me) have had no training. Not in weapons, strategy, tactics rules of war, how to take orders or pretty much anything. At best they're like untrained mercenaries[1] who don't have any real clue what they're doing, just out for a duck-shoot and a bit of an adrenalin rush.

What I would suggest is, to instill a bit of reality, would be that the players fill their bathtubs up with mud, cold water, leeches and a few thousand mozzies. Then sit in that for a couple of days with the showe4r attachment running - waiting. Occasionally smack themselves in the face with the branch from a tree - to simulate whiplash from patrolling through a jungle, and once a day get to open a tin of (cold) baked beans. Maybe after a week of that, have someone come round to their house, saw off a leg and tell them they just died after stepping on a landmine that they never saw coming. Without ever firing a shot - except by accident and hitting their best mate. Then let's see where the glamour goes, where their enthusiasm ends up and how willing they are to sign up (or buy) the next edition. The nice thing about virtual reality games is that they're all virtual and have absolutely no reality, being as they are: simply games.

[1] although in real war, with real guns I doubt if an untrained mercenary would get as far as the field of play^H^H^H^Hbattle before accidentally shooting themselves or asking "what does this do?" as they trigger a Claymore and wipe out their entire band of compadres. Basically a menace to everyone around them.

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WTF?

Oh for goodness sake

Next up: James Bond acting outside of international law. Arnold Schwarzenegger didn't follow proscribed "First Contact" protocols.

It's a _game_. Just because I enjoy shooting my friends repeatedly in the face in a game that does not mean I'm about to wander the streets of Kosovo with an assault rifle picking off innocent locals.

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pffft

“It would mean a wasted opportunity if the virtual space transmitted the illusion of impunity for unlimited violence in armed conflicts,”

Aha. OK then.

...And lets not waste the opportunity to teach kids about dangerous fungus by ensuring that whenever Mario eats a brightly coloured mushroom he throws up everywhere and spends 14 hours screaming that the snake people are trying to eat his shoes.

Surely the whole point of computer games is that they don't have to follow real world rules?

What's next? Every time you finish a round of guitar hero some virtual record label executive takes 97% of your points?

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Grenade

cherry-picking

If you look at the list of games, it includes 24 and Splinter Cell: Double Agent. Neither of which are war games. Presumably they were included to tick the "interrogation" box. Methinks the bods behind this "research" were interested in getting a good PR piece rather than anything constructive.

And that's ignoring the fact that *it's just a game.* Oy vey.

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Anonymous Coward

real-world rules

I remember watching television reports of British and US operations during the first Gulf War together with an ex-military person. A couple of times he commented: "That's actually against the Geneva Convention. I'm surprised they talk about it so openly. And it's funny none of the journalists realise it's illegal."

In practice, things like the Geneva Convention are used to provide public justification for illegal wars, where it is claimed that the other side has violated them and therefore must be murdered and raped, etc, and that's about all they're good for.

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Absurd

We could not stop the British/Americans/Israelis/Somalis/Serbians/etc. from doing these things in the field.

Therefore you can not do them in a game.

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Anonymous Coward

This just in....

...real soldiers can't just hide in the corner to regain all their health, or re-spawn ad infinitum. Nor do their mags carry a bazillion rounds.

Someone should of told the games developers earlier, we don't want people to actually have fun playing this stuff now do we?

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Ah yes...

but does teabagging count as a war-crime?

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WTF?

Horse poo

Nothing is more satisfying than calling in a 1000 pound bomb to kill that one sniper. Afterall that sniper is in a ghillie suit and blooming hard to find otherwise.

Nor is in unreasonable to shoot the Alsatian BEFORE it rips your throat out. (Oh wait PETA will argue about that)

But expecting those Militia from Brazil to adhere to war convetions is a little pointless. As is the rebels in Afghanistan.

OR is it worth expecting the Russians when the third world war does start to adhere to the same rules. (Especially if there is a terrorist attack perpetrated to start said war as in COD4 MW2 - though granted school kids who are willingly shooting and stabbing each other should learn that it is bad to walk round an airport with heavy machine guns)

NEXT you will be telling me getting a 25 kill streak in MW2 and using a nuclear bomb is unreasonable.

What next, how dare we farm pixelated deer and buffalo in Age of empires 3? How dare we mine for trees in an unsustainable forest in Warcraft 3.

How dare we mine a toxic green crystal in C&C 1,2,3 & 4

Some people need to get a proper job.

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FAIL

Wtf?

There's a clue in the name you muppets, it's a 'game', i.e. it's not real. Yet more grandstanding moralising pontificating idiotic wannabe popes.

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Au Contraire

We should be doing the opposite and making Real Life more like video games.

How cool would it be to web like Spidey, fly like Supey, heal like a cleric and actually sting like a bee?

Next up.. pointless organisation tries to ban books containing "imagination fuel"

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Grenade

They covered that 13 years ago

From the Quake manual:

Q: Don't you worry that Quake teaches people that all problems can be solved by the misuse of deadly force?

A: No.

["And may it please the court, I would like 218500 other offences to be taken into consideration..."]

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Coat

oh dear

I, for one, am getting rather sick of this fucktarded assumption that hysteria-mongering dickbags like this always make. That gamers are incapable of differentiating between games and reality. It's moronic and insulting to our intelligence. That they also have the gall to trot out the 'think of the children' line shows just how little they know about gaming and the laws surrounding the distribution of games. Even if there were no laws regarding this there should be more of an onus on parents to.. oh I don't know... actually take a motherfucking interest in raising their own goddamn children perhaps?! Call me naive if you must but last time I checked raising children was the job of parents. Not hysterical moralising jobsworth fuckwits.

I'll get my coat, I need some fresh air whilst my indignant rage subsides.

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Anonymous Coward

heh

This kind of shit makes me puke. It's so retarded I can't even be bothered to express myself. These kinds of tits just want to get rid of games all together, or have them as real life simulators "hey Jimmy what are you doing in virtualreallife?"

"I'm working as an accountant in a mid range firm, my boss makes my every working hour a misery and my wife is neurotic. My eldest child is an vegan environmentalist radical and my youngest is a stonner! I'm having so much fun, later I'm going to the tittie bar to see some hussies shake their stuff!"

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/ultra_realistic_modern_warfare

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Anonymous Coward

FFS

Oh FFS.

"encourage the gamer to respect human rights" they are characters in a GAME, they don't have human rights. Its a fucking GAME...

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Flame

well,

Pro Juvenile and Trial can piss off.

I know the difference between a church in C&C and real life. One of them I will destroy wantonly, t'other I won't go anywhere near.

Perhaps these twats should concentrate on getting parents to understand how to raise children and those that fail can expect their children to be removed.

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN (!)

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Ridiculous

Does this mean thay will be applying the same laws to any movies featuring military action??

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WTF?

They are...

....... just bloody games!!!

What next? A add-on to send in the Red Cross?? No more re-spawning??

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I have never heard...

...such an utter load of b*ll*cks. Bring on the thought police.

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Anonymous Coward

How about...

Games where at the end of the level/mission, the Red Caps come for you if you have shot up civilians or wantonly targeted power stations.

It could be part of the marekting as another level of realism.

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What war is really like

Heh heh, I saw this reported on BBC News online this morning. My favourite quote: "...even though most players would never become real world combatants, the games could influence what people believe war is like..." Yes, because in a real war the environment magically prevents you from committing war crimes. No need to develop a conscience then.

Fair enough to call for designers not to create scenarios that require torture and wanton destruction of civilians to complete a goal, but making the game engine prevent it seems counterproductive.

And I don't even play these games.

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Joke

And in return...

The gaming community should require lawmakers to draft real world laws covering virtual topics. Should Elves and Dwarves be allowed to interbreed? Should Priests be allowed spend talent points in Shadow? Is it right to encourage the slaughter of Dragons? Should Zombies be protected under law?

And while we are on the subject, why are games companies allowed to flagrantly depict inaccurate representations of the physical world? Shouldn't all game settings be subject to the same natural laws as our own universe? Its about time we acted on this...

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FAIL

Get a real job

How do these people get paid to do these studies?

I think some one should tell them they are just games and therefore have no need to recreate real life at all. What's next saying that we don't know if Aliens will be good or bad so we shouldn't make games where we can shoot them.

Honesty, I can understand what goes through the minds of people who think that video games should be compared to the real world.

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WTF?

Eh?

These are games that they are talking about, not real life situations - can somebody please point this out to Pro Juvenile as they seem to be getting their knickers in a twist over what may or may not happen in a virtual environment.

The findings of this mickey mouse report are akin to saying that a game of Monopoly allows people to commit acts of fraud and financial irregularity.

Who gives a flying fuck?

IT' S NOT REAL!

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Stop

Unless they are specifically a simulation...

they are games, it's fantasy, and can do what they like!

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Coat

Realism

"Cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, and/or torture cropped up frequently too."

Yeah, like that game where the "good guys" illegally incur into their allies' territory, pick up some civilians who look a bit Moslem, and take them away for 2 years of torture.

Oh wait, that wasn't a game, was it?

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What next?

Watch out, they'll be trying to ban God Mode next!

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