back to article Britain needs meat trimmers and boners, not techies

British IT workers can rest easy that they are not about to be displaced by a tide of non-EC workers after the government published its latest list of shortage occupations. However, choreographers and ballet dancers, orchestral musicians and assorted medical types are still in short supply, it would appear. Likewise chefs, …

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Shortage

Of course there is not shortage - employers wouldd just like a glut of IT staff to help drive down wages.

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Anonymous Coward

IT jobs

The difference between "not enough kids studying IT" and "plenty of applicants for IT jobs " is made up of foreign nationals. Every time I post a job ad I get 10 foreign nationals per local. Not really a discrepancy.

Of course, one would hope that the government's attempts at pushing kids into a particular sector would depend on some sort of projected availability of jobs in said sector. IRL, though, this would require some degree of foresight and organisation.

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I'll be the first...

I'll be the first to sign-up as a Boner.

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Choreographers?

HTF can there be a shortage of choreographers? The country isn't going to collapse any further just because a few twinkled toe prima donnas can't figure out which foot to put where.

Oh, and I've met a fair number of meat trimmers and boners, all have had an unhealthy obsession with knives and flesh of all kinds. I think it's best that the balance sheet remains negative on that profession.

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Bronze badge

Boners?

Plenty around here.

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Anonymous Coward

Hovercraft pilots

What's the situation on hovercraft pilots now ... last year they were one of the jobs that was considered in need of applicants .... am I too late now to switch careers?

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Anonymous Coward

I like boning

never thought of it as a career though.

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Re: IT jobs

Actually, I would like to contest that. Last few times I had to sieve through CVs (before my current job) there in 70 or so CVs there were 2-3 EU and Commonwealth foreigners, 20+ ex-forces and rest various local. This for general purpose IT in a SME hiring off the open market. So the largest distinct group was ex-forces, not foreigners.

Based on my observations from an SME and a couple of large companies you do not really see non-EU IT personnel until you get involved with big companies which contract to off-shore and off-shore brings their own staff. This staff, if they are good, do their very best to settle (cannot blame them), however they tend to remain in the big companies that brought them via the contractor or their direct competitors. As a result there is a lot of them in banking, telecoms, large retail, etc. However once you go down to an average company in the countryside you will find Brits with an odd sparkle of Polish or NZ here or there.

Development is both similar and different. There are a couple of areas where there is LOTS of foreigners. Some originated from similar large company on-off-sourcing deals. Some are a result of EU universities having a _WAY BETTER_ program in some areas. EU nationals studying for a CS or economics degree study way more math than in the UK as a result they are at a natural advantage in the job market.

As far as the IT jobs disappearing off the list - nothing surprising. The rate at which jobs are going overseas is higher than the rate of decrease in local IT graduates being produced by universities. As a result there is an oversupply. However, most of that oversupply is a result of the general decrease in IT jobs, not as a result of "pesky foreigners" taking them away from Brits. And in the cases where it is indeed the case of "pesky foreigners" taking them away from indigenous english speaking population (as the BNP calls it), it is done by _BRITISH_ managers to please _BRITISH_ boards which demonstrate the cost cutting success to _BRITISH_ shareholders. All hail the short-termism. Hurray.

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A shortage of boners?

Only short term: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/11/2012_prostitute_invasion/

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Not enough boners?

Things are obviously not hard enough in the UK.

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Boners?

Well, if they'd remove all the restrictons on porn then I'm sure there would be a lot more boners.

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Hah! IT jobs...

We've only recently been finally reaching the backlash of the sheer push of 'IT' workers that we suddenly magically had in the country and made it hard to get a decent IT job.

Said backlash is that companies are starting to realise that they hired every person who claimed they were skilled in IT, even when they're 'skillz' amounted to 'didn't use the Euro-plug cable sent in the box when they got their home PC'.

It's true, we have a glut of 'IT workers', but that definition nowadays also includes the mindless drones who read the same spiel off of their PC screen (that someone else set up) over the phone to customers.

Truly skilled workers who will work through the entire day without trying to skip off by 3pm? Harder to find than you think.

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Coat

Intra-company transfers are alive and well in Sunny Slough....

Seems whatever law was passed isn't working very well here or the hoardes of imported support guys n gals on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd floor are in my imagination! Rotation of staff gives me the impression there not here long enough to have to pay UK tax either (1 year or less and the employer/employee pay tax in the employee country of origin I recall)

Unsure how our laws are protecting us when the outsourced companies provide onsite staff that directly replace the ex-uk-employees and have a back office abroad where the bulk of the work occurs.

The Coat as Infrastructure groups are now under consideration so I might as well be getting mine....

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Not enough boners?

I started as a boner / cutter almost 40 years ago. In those days, the skill was in the accuracy of the cutting - you had to maximise profits, by reducing the amount of better quality meat down graded to lower quality cuts. Most of the skilled people worked in small shops and you dealt directly with the customer.

However, butchery like a lot of other jobs has changed. The small shops have gone and even in the best supermarkets, the staff are not that well trained (they just stack packets of meat). The really skilled people are all working in factories; but now the skill is in speed. I looked after the IT in a meat factory for a number of years and these guys work at a pace that would have really upset my old butchery manager - he would not accept that they could do it right working at that kind of speed.

However, the interesting thing is that these factories struggle to find trained staff even though the pay is pretty good. (Many of their boners were earning more than me.) They had taken on a large number of non - Brtitish people just because they couldn't get enough staff from this country. Oh and before anyone starts, they offered a proper training programme and qualifications for young people to try to get them into the industry - just couldn't attract enough people.

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Anonymous Coward

Wow goverment listerned

When you here about "IT workers on less that 20k a year" you have to ask how the term IT is defined thesedays.

IT is not as mature as accountancy and as such staff get shafted. Nice to see they wont be hit with the cheap staff from abroad stick any more.

People who use word thesedays are deemed IT workers, its so diluted as a term its a joke.

But respect to the contractors group, gota respect people who fight the good fight.

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Unhappy

@Hah! IT jobs...

The degradation of "IT worker" has got the stage where the latest lottery winners in Liverpool were classed as IT workers when I got the impression that they were call centre staff.

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Troll

Latest lottery winners were internal IT

internal IT at a BT call centre, does it get any worse? Sounds like 1st line or break fix to me...

The fact they agreed to publicity when netting about 8million quid each says it all.

Smart people would say "No thanks, I dont want scroats and beggers at my door, now sign my cheque"

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Coat

@AC re: hovercraft pilots

It's not so much that there are more pilots as that there are fewer hovercraft. They've been filling with eels at an alarming rate...

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The IT industry needs some self regulation

in order to prevent these script readers and cable monkeys being classed as IT professionals.

Doctors have their boards of certification, lawyers have the Bar exams. And you don't get orderlies performing operations "because we are all health workers."

So many problems in IT setups that I am called in to fix stem from people not knowing what they are doing, yet being able to call themselves "technical architect" or "Chief Information Officer" (he was the only IT worker in the place) because there is no industry standard to prohibit someone woefully unqualified from using those titles.

Microsoft have their Master and Architect qualifications, Cisco has the CCIE. These are rigorous, in depth qualifications that are as close or identical to the peer reviewed systems of doctors and lawyers. They are a start, but without protection of the titles such as Systems Engineer, Technical Architect, Developer et al. the real professionals in the IT industry will continue to be lumped together with the ignorant call centre script readers that now pass for 1st line support.

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Arty farty

Arty farty jobs like choreographers are just to make shows easier to move about the place and ease the pain for theatres trying to bring in the latest hot young thing to the masses. After all we've got to have something for those others to watch after a hard days boning.

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Frank said it first...

You could make more money as a butcher.

-- Frank Zappa, "Cosmik Debris"

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"Likewise chefs"

Hasn't that always been the case?

England: Where good ingredients go to die ...

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And while we are on the topic

Jumped up titles are rife in IT. Since when was a head of IT a CTO? As a real CTO it really pisses me off to see a title i have worked many years to achieve being handed out to the head of a technical support team. Is it any wonder call centre staff are being called IT workers? The rot has been started by those at the top. It's like all those sales 'executives' that knock on your door trying to sell you crap you don't want.

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Coat

@David W.

Ah. That'll be due to the terrible shortage of Hovercraft eel-trap makers.

It's a dying art you know........

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@AC and jumped-up titles

You think you've got it bad with IT? Try engineering.

Ring up BT and report a fault. "OK, we'll send an engineer over." Really? What was his degree in? A mate of mine actually got arsey and said to the woman on the phone, "No, you're sending a technician." He didn't get any mileage out of it, because calling technicians "engineers" is now endemic and it's ridiculously hard to get anyone to see the difference. (And because call-centre staff don't give a toss, too.)

Try that in Europe and you're looking at a lawsuit. Like being called "Doctor", you can only call yourself "Engineer" with appropriate qualifications.

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Too many tw*ts in suits

Not enough people who actually know how to do their job. That goes for public and private sector, IT and management, etc.

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Paris Hilton

boiler engineers?

I told a guy I was an installation engineer and he asked me if I installed boilers. I thought boilers were installed by plumbers. The conversation didn't go much further.

Paris cos the world needs more plumbing innuendo.

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